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#Post#: 1789--------------------------------------------------
Give it a chance?
DIR By: Spider
Date: August 26, 2014, 12:07 pm
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I have a request to make. Seeing as it looks like we will be
having quick resets until they get the random gen how they want
it. I would like to request we try no loot respawn for the first
week after the next fresh wipe. After a week of playing we could
have a vote or discussion of what people think about it after
actually playing it. If at that time everyone says they don’t
like it it can be turned back on without hurting anyone’s build.
Loot respawn was only put in the game a few months ago as a band
aid for MP servers running out of loot on the Static Map. We are
cheating ourselves not playing the game the way it was intended
to be played. In doing so we are allowing each player to become
a sustainable island not needing other player’s goods or
support. We also are incentivizing looting the same place over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over….
You get my point. Let’s make every trash bag important, let’s
make uncovering what’s over that hill worthwhile, and let’s make
those dangerous trips into the city truly reward those that risk
their asses.
#Post#: 1791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Aknot
Date: August 26, 2014, 12:40 pm
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I like ( a little) and dont (a lot) like this.
You are essentially rewarding the people that play and or can
play for a longer amount of time. If I can play for 12 hours a
pop (and there is nothing wrong with that been there done that
on different games) and you can only play 2 hours a pop where
does that leave you? At my mercy.
So instead of me being able to find that cooler with a can of
food or a life saving jar a water in the first day I log I now
have to go off in search for an unpicked area of the map.
Praying I picked a direction that no one else has went off in
and is not guarded so I dont get shot.
Again you appear to be attempting to request a play style on
people that you can in effect place on yourself if you think it
is a problem/issue. If this is incorporated you will in essence
make everyone a nomad. I know I wont stay put if I cant go out
and loot. I will just keep ahead of the Z threat and keep
moving. So now you have just pushed me (and possibly others)
further out so we wont trade/interact even if we needed to. OR
you force us to stay close together taking the chance of getting
shot.
I do wish we could have a degrade option on the loot respawn.
However it may come with time. We are still in Alpha so why make
the game harder when the bugs and such already make it difficult
as it is?
How is the game intended to be played? If the game has options
to tweak and modify how can you say the game was not intended to
have that function of loot respawn? The game was intended (at
this time) to be PvE only.... So in essence we are already not
playing it as intended... ;)
I like it based on the ability to trade and interact. This is
the part I enjoy. I want to build my shack the way I want to I
want to be able to do stuff on my own without a 'buddy' etc.
However when it comes to trading and having or needing stuff to
trade for I enjoy it. You start to really learn who people are.
I did like it when Cookie needed sand and we would trade items
or someone in chat needed a beaker and I had an extra. The
upside to this is we were close and to a degree not PvPing on
sight. Now in my travels there is the option of me getting my
melon blown off. I wont take the chance.
Is there a way to make certain biomes only spawn certain items?
Is there a way to limit recipes meaning once 3 people learn how
to create "x" only they can and no one else? These are things
for the future of the game in my opinion great for then not for
now.
Overall I think it is a bad idea. However with everything else I
generally go with the flow if it is a server decision I stay...
I actually like some of you and take enjoyment in playing here.
#Post#: 1792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: h0tr0d
Date: August 26, 2014, 12:59 pm
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I'm always down to give it a shot, but as Aknot said: with
random gen maps you may push people further and further out.
#Post#: 1794--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Spider
Date: August 26, 2014, 1:13 pm
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@Aknot
In no way does this push any play style on another person, just
because a fridge doesn’t magically replenish its self does not
make you play like me. You could still set up next to a city and
take a week to loot it. You could still build a base farm and
hunt animals. You could still wonder around and explore. In what
way does it force a play style on you? It in no way forces
someone else’s play style on you. All it does is make you work
for your survival and not depend on the magic personal shoppers
we have refiling all the abandoned kitchens in town. Yes if
someone played 12hrs they would have a lot of sh!t (shouldn’t
they) so much so it may make them want to trade for something
they don’t have.
The only thing it changes is you can no longer loot the same
thing over and over again and expect to live a happy life.
#Post#: 1795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: h0tr0d
Date: August 26, 2014, 1:49 pm
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It would force a change in play style Spider. One you could
argue is more conducive to a certain play style than others.
#Post#: 1796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: h0tr0d
Date: August 26, 2014, 1:56 pm
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You could not stay put and hope to get a sniper rifle, as an
example. If we had a faster means of transportation (than our
feet) you guys wouldn't even care, because it would not matter.
If I could cover more ground at greater speeds I could forage
afield farther with no loot re-spawning. If loot did re-spawn
I could be encouraged to pvp more as I would accumulate supplies
faster and be ready to venture forth to pvp/raid sooner.
You have to understand if you play alone typically survival
means hiding as opposed to open warfare.
I do support no loot re-spawning; however, I think it may be
best to wait until we have rafts or skateboards or cars or
hangliders or whatever. (Hopefully rafts and rollerblades!)
Because at it stands now, I would be forced to roam for
supplies. Larger groups need more food than smaller, and would
also be forced to roam methinks.
I just find it a mite naive to approach the game ruleset as if
the game was beta at the very least.
#Post#: 1797--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Spider
Date: August 26, 2014, 2:08 pm
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Your all just lazy and like your container farms. I can see its
too much for you. I'll let it go. :P
#Post#: 1798--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Aknot
Date: August 26, 2014, 2:33 pm
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--- Quote from: Spider link ---
>
> Your all just lazy and like your container farms. I can see
its too much for you. I'll let it go. :P
>
--- End Quote ---
Lazy? Nah I do enough work in the real world. When I play a game
I want a challenge but I don't want it to feel like a job.
#Post#: 1799--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Lupa
Date: August 26, 2014, 6:11 pm
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I love you Spider! (Just thought I'd preface with some positive
first!) :-* Have been playing with Spider more than most of the
rest of my team as he and I play similar hours and length of
time and he's a good guy and really knows this game. I've
learned a lot from him.
Now for the feedback, and no it's not jumping on the negative
bandwagon, promise! I'm trying to interject perspective.
Long ago, in the dinosaur ages of online gaming, I was a
stay-at-home Mom with two school-age kids, stationed overseas as
a military wife (after I got out of the Navy myself). I was very
bored and my husband was gone a lot and so I discovered online
gaming via UO and Everquest - the first real MMORPG games where
lots of players got together in a 2D or 3D world for hours on
end to battle dragons, explore and socialize. (despite that
tired old meme about WoW being the first MMO lol). Back then, I
became part of a 'h-a-r-d-c-o-r-e' (no idea why it filters that
word) gaming guild and spent something like 6-8 hours a day
(well all night really) going on massive raids, etc. It was a
grand time but as part of our server's 'elite' we had higher
expectations of the game and what we wanted from it. More
challenge, more epic monsters, more epic loot. Eventually, as
all games do, the game aged, the endgame died away and the elite
gamers moved on to the next big game (WoW and others) and the
same cycle started and repeated itself. I was onboard for awhile
but then I just flat out burnt out.
All this long history has a point, bear with me.
Years passed and my life changed. So too did my gaming style.
Eventually I got pretty tired of the MMO culture overall and
started playing more small scale multi-player games like
shooters and single player games. With being a busy working Mom,
my kids getting older and life taking me in a diff. direction
(divorce and single parenthood) - I couldn't devote hours and
hours a night to a guild, or an MMO. I became the dreaded
"casual gamer" we had always scorned in our 'elite' gaming
guild... omg! ::)
All of a sudden, I could see what all those "Carebear" gamers
were crying about. I didn't have "time" in a day or night to do
all of the things required to have the high end gear and loot
the **** gamers all had. I'm not going to say it was 'unfair'
because I still believe if you've got the time and effort you
deserve the higher reward - even to this day I do not disrespect
elite gaming guilds, they achieve really big things and I have
fond memories of raiding for being 'first' on our server, etc.
It's fun!
So what the heck does this have to do with some cabinets full of
canned peas and gun parts in 7DTD then???
Well - the perspective I've gained is that while yes, time to
play does equate to higher reward - that doesn't always
crossover to all sorts of games. Depending on the type of game,
grinding can mean "levels" or it can mean higher quality
"crafting" or whatever you're investing your time into doing.
In this particular game, lots of time equates to lots more time
to explore, lots more time to scavenge, lots more time to build
and lots more time to craft.... much like an MMO. But unlike an
MMO, we have a more static (if randomly generated) map that
remains somewhat the same at all times... zombies and PvP are
the only things that add a layer of unpredictable challenge to
the game.
So, with that in mind, I can appreciate your request to want to
eliminate loot respawn to add another layer of challenge to the
game. It would definitely up the challenge ante.
However.
It will also force. yes force, players to interact in ways they
may or may not end up liking or wanting.
I hear you - I do. Forcing players out of their hoarding comfort
zones could be a good thing, but there will still - just by the
nature of the beast - always be a big disparity between the
people who can play 4-6 hours a day and those who can only play
1-2 if that.
Suddenly the difference between the "Haves" and the "Have Nots"
gets really big, really quickly in a short amount of time as
players disperse outwards to find loot further and further away.
Yes, I have to agree with the others, it will NOT change nomadic
oriented players suddenly into social traders and farmers. That
won't happen.
I'm social, you're social - we and our team of friends will help
each other out. The Old Farts will help each other out, there's
more of them than anyone. The loners will just range further and
further outward on the map as the larger groups (us) strip clean
the cities and other POIs.
You said:
--- Quote ---
> just because a fridge doesn’t magically replenish its self
does not make you play like me. You could still set up next to a
city and take a week to loot it.
--- End Quote ---
But a very casual player can't possibly loot a city in the same
amount of time it takes you and I or Madman, Kal, 3rd and Soup
collectively for example. By the time that player log back on
the next day we can have that city cleaned out if we wanted.
Are you starting to see the perspective in that?
Now, the guy who logged off a day or two ago logs on to find the
city he found empty, he has to move on or hope to find some
scraps leftover we missed. Or he can try to communicate via TS
or chat that he's running low on supplies and is anyone in the
area who would like to trade some food for some iron? Do we need
iron? Are we near him? Is it worth our time to hook up and trade
with him if we're far away?
Should he suddenly change his methods and build a base and grow
some blueberries and potatoes because he can't find enough cans
to keep traveling? Wait, I thought we weren't going to force
anyone to change their playstyle!
While I can on one hand appreciate the added challenge of
running out of food and not having a city conveniently next door
- I can on the other hand see how over time that might really
cause more of a challenge than even I'm willing to do. I'll have
to start traveling and trading and farming and I'm not so sure I
want to do that all the time or suddenly have the obligation to
log on certain times to make sure my team can 'raid' a base or
defend against other raiders because now it's all out war
everywhere for those precious things someone can't find and
would rather steal.
While I don't mind growing some crops, mining for ore to make
weapons, etc... I don't expect everyone to have to do that.
I know 40k worth of sprawling wilderness seems infinite but it's
not. With as few players as we have right now it probably won't
be noticeable or 'empty' but I still think it will cause players
to spread further and further out in search of supplies and
those rare items they don't have (books, blueprints, rare parts
etc).
TLDR version:
Everyone has different ways of playing this game and that won't
change with rule changes much. A little. Not much.
I'd be willing to try no loot respawn only because I know wipes
will be more frequent. I don't think at this early in the game's
RGW stage, it's going to make that much difference to anyone on
our server. Not yet.
But it will eventually.
#Post#: 1800--------------------------------------------------
Re: Give it a chance?
DIR By: Lupa
Date: August 26, 2014, 6:30 pm
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And in reading my way to freaking long essay I realized I left
out a key point:
7DTD isn't about 'grinding' levels or getting epic loot from
dungeons, it's just survival, crafting and zombie killing with
some PvP on the side depending on how energetic your MP server
is and the rules so the MMO analogy I gave isn't really a very
good comparison. In an MMO everyone can usually have a chance at
the same loot even if it takes the casual gamer twice as long.
Unfortunately in our game that doesn't really translate. If it
takes me twice as long to travel, to scavenge, or to build a
fort as it takes you, I may or may not achieve as much survival
'comfort' with or without loot.
I do understand that nomads will still be nomads and people who
like to build will survive on farming and crafting instead of
looting that conveniently respawning city next door.
I don't know how much it will affect the overall stability of
our community is what I'm saying. It's different from an MMO
where the same monster (boss) respawns over and over and
everyone can have a crack at him. Not so that super rare auger
or chainsaw or sniper rifle which are about the only 'elite'
loot we have LOL.
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