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#Post#: 4--------------------------------------------------
The Rambam: Principle 6
By: mrsgold Date: December 11, 2012, 2:24 pm
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Why did you have a difficult time believing that the words of
נביאים are true? How do you
feel about it now, after our discussion. Please give proofs and
examples.
#Post#: 16--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: Flowergirl98 Date: December 15, 2012, 6:39 pm
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I had a difficult time believing that everything a prophet said
was true. I had trouble because there have been so many prophets
in the past, who have said prophecy that weren't true. How could
I believe a prophet if so many of them were lying?! Now, after I
learned in detail about the way one can tell and test if
prophets are telling the truth, it makes more sense. As we
learned in Sefar Devarim, Parak 18, Pasuk 18-22; G-d explains to
Moshe the way it works. He says whatever comes out of the
prophets mouth is true, and whoever doesn't listen to him is
punished. But, if the prophet says something that G-d didn't
tell him, than the prophet is punished. The Jews could also test
the prophet by asking him to predict something else and seeing
if it happened; if he told the truth, than they knew if he was a
true prophet.
After I learned all of this, I had an easier time believing it
since now there was a way to know if the prophet was lying or
not. But, honestly, even if someone still doesn't believe a
prophet, now-a-days it would't really matter since I don't
think they're any prophets in this time!
#Post#: 22--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: Patrick5678 Date: December 15, 2012, 10:44 pm
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I don't think it was [i]impossibly[i] hard to believe, because
it might as well have been. I just wasn't 1000% sure about it
because, the Nevi'im weren't Gd. They were people, who were for
sure greater than us because Gd chose them, yet, they weren't
Gd. They weren't people who were perfect. They knew more than we
know, and they were smarter, but they're not people who knew
everything. Eli was a good example for this. Eli was proven to
be a true prophet! He gave prophecies which were correct, and
everyone believed him in what he said to the people. But when he
saw Chana davening, he thought she was drunk, and when he asked
his tablet, he read it wrong, therefore, he accused Chana of
being drunk, even though she was perfectly sober, and davening
to Gd! Therefore, what i took from this was that prophets can be
real, and they're prophecies completely true. But, sometimes
they make some little mistakes, which can affect belief in
Principle 6 or not.
#Post#: 24--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: spongebob1234 Date: December 16, 2012, 11:58 am
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Ok I had a difficult time believing the words of the Naviam were
true because I think its hard to belive someone when all of
sudden they could just say some random thing and expect a bunch
of people to believe them. After our discussion about how long
ago when there were Naviam they were tested and proven to speak
only the word of G-d it makes me believe it a little bit more
but I am still not 100% convinced that all Naviam can be telling
the truth. Now of course no one is perfect and people make
mistakes even Moshe made mistakes but when your dealing with
something as extreme and powerful as Naviam that could change
the world I feel like there is little room for error. For
example in Shmuel Aleph when Eli gets the wrong messege from G-d
he thinks Channa is drunk which is far from the truth, so this
an example when a Navi is not speaking the word of Hashem so how
could anyone ever know for sure. Today I don't think its as big
of a deal as it was a long time ago because we are not on the
same level as we were thousands of years ago, but I do think
that sometimes G-d will comunticate with people today. Such as
when we read the article about the man visiting "Heaven" I do
not know where he went or if it was Heaven but I do believe that
G-d took him somewhere. So all in all I think that I was more
convinced to believe the Naviam but I am still not 100% sure.
#Post#: 30--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: TheOnlyMrsEfron Date: December 16, 2012, 9:05 pm
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I think the reason I had such a hard time believing in this
principle is because Neviim are humans. I am a human as well and
i make a lot of mistakes so i think it bothered me that we are
putting so much faith into human beings like you and me who we
know can make mistakes. Of course the prophets are very wise and
were great people but it doesn't mean that they are perfect.
There is a big margin between wisdom and perfection. A very
famous example is when Moses hits the rock for water when Hashem
tells him to speak to it. Moshe and Aaron were both punished for
disobeying Hashem. Here we see that even the greatest, wisest
and most amazing leaders of Jewish History made a mistake.
Hashem is perfect but man never will be.
#Post#: 49--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: riversong Date: December 17, 2012, 7:41 pm
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i don't think it's just the fact that the naviiam, might not be
true, but also the fact that the naviam were one, like
TheOnlyMrsEfron said is that they are human, but most people
don't like being told what to do. there are two types of people
in this world, leaders and sheep. and sure the sheep, like being
told what to do. but most people in general don't. and that fact
that naviam are is a little hard to accept. and the fact that
it's coming from hashem, only makes it harder to believe. if a
random person walk up to me and says; 'i have a message from
god, stop being mean to other people, and you can stay in your
home', to me that sounds more like a threat than anything else.
and what if i'm only mean to someone if they deserve it to me?
then i can't really stop because i don't see anything wrong. and
even if it wasn't someone that was random, someone i knew, i
still probably wouldn't stop. and also you have to remember,
these people we're talking about, they were humans, jews, and
they probably had a little of wanted to be "bad" in them. a
little "rebel" they wanted to let out.
#Post#: 52--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: anthonyrizzofuture Date: December 17, 2012, 8:03 pm
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Even after all of our discussion, I am still having trouble
believing that all the words of the prophets are true. To me it
seems like the prophets match all other religions. "I had a
dream from God telling me, to tell you, that what you are doing
is wrong." Is that not why we discredit Jesus and other self
proclaimed prophets? Another reason I have trouble with this
principle is because even though it says in the Torah that God
will kill all false prophets, what about Muhammad, who lived to
the age of about 60. Also many prophets died young, including
Shmuel. Also, who believes every single word someone says.
Anyone who does that is just plain gullible. These reasons are
why I have trouble accepting that all the words of the prophets
are true.
I am anthonyrizzofuture and I approve this message.
I kindly ask that no one make snippy comments on my comments.
Please do not take me out of context. Remember I can always do
that to you.
#Post#: 56--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: AuspiciousWind Date: December 17, 2012, 10:17 pm
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The problem i have about believing in prophets is that things
they said could be set up to seem true. It seems hard to just
take someones word for things. There are various ways in staging
what they say. They could say that a place was going to be
destroyed the person could send a herd of animals towards it by
scaring them. The discussion we had helped understand why they
are believable and how it could be proven they are really
prophets. It still seem somewhat questionable because there
seems like even with all the ways there are in testing a person
is a real prophet there still seem there is a way to stage being
a prophet so that people will believe them.
#Post#: 64--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: ddirectioner123 Date: December 19, 2012, 8:39 pm
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I think this was the hardest principle for me to believe. Its
hard to trust 100's of prophets and just believe that they are
all true also tere has been false prophets in the past so who
are we suppose to believe. After learning that navis have to go
through such a long process it helped me reassure myself that
they are true. Also being a navi is a very high level and you
will get punished for faking so it reduces the chances of false
people. of course every one still makes mistakes and there can
be false ones but learning these laws definitely strengthen my
belief in them.
#Post#: 70--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Rambam: Principle 6
By: louisbiebs15 Date: December 20, 2012, 7:30 pm
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before we had the disscusion in class about the navim. it was
hard to believe that you have to believe everything someone
says. but after the disscussion i understood why it was said.
the first example given is that hashem told moshe that the true
navim are saying the words of hashem. the second example we
recieved comes from rambam and he said the test of future and if
it came true he would become a navi.he had to predict the future
and then and only then would he declared as a faithful and true
navi. ;D
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