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#Post#: 17691--------------------------------------------------
Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 28, 2016, 11:33 am
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Hi Jed,
One thing that shifted quite profoundly for me as things cleared
up was my experience involving other people. I really enjoyed
the overall message inherent in your books, (have read them all
but the last....the Trilogy and TOE).. but sort of scratched my
head a bit over the level of distaste you often expressed for
'others.' (particularly cause you also talked about being adept
at manifesting a personal reality to your liking...)...
I must say, I was pleased to see you now offering the kind of
one on one discourse you are now offering on this forum and in
your Nav. series as I DO see the potential for one who is TR to
guide another who is not yet there.....it seems as though you
yourself have shifted quite profoundly in perspective with
regards to the issue of whether or not there is any value in one
on one guidance/teaching;
Below is an excerpt from the Trilogy where you seemed to be very
clear about seeing no merit whatsoever in addressing
seekers/readers beyond what you have to say in your books;
". I enjoy writing, but I don’t enjoy people…….in any case, I’m
a private person and I have nothing to say that isn’t in the
books. I’ve made that point in this book, there is simply not
that much to say, and I’ve said it all. I can continue to write,
expand upon themes, go deeper into some topics but, that’s about
it.
Anyone who wants to track me down, ask me questions, benefit
from what they think I can offer, is operating purely from
denial. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise, that seeking
out a direct relationship with some woop-de-dee spiritual fella
is the mark of deep commitment, but it’s Maya who’s doing the
convincing. What would I possibly have to say to someone? We’ve
already determined to a reasonable certainty that there are no
valid questions left unanswered by the books, so what would I
do, cite page number?" Jed McKenna
I'd love to hear about what (if anything) shifted for you in
your movement from being so adamant (and not liking people!) to
now doing what you are doing here. (deeper, perhaps?)...This
whole shift in relating to others and the benefits or lack
thereof of a guru/teacher, is a subject for me that continues
to spark up..and I find myself exploring the depths of it
through writing and meditation.....thanks so much for anything
you care to offer! :)
#Post#: 17697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 28, 2016, 8:43 pm
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Dear Kiri;
I sometimes am at a loss as to why folks think that a persona, a
mask used to experience humaness, should be consistent, should
never change. Well, mind does want consistency because that
helps it to take a position and taking a position is the first
step to launching a defense. Mind just loves the hell out of
that.
Truth is infinite, it has to be in order to allow for all
possibilities. I don't see much point in remaining the same,
consistent, at all. I am continually changing facets of this
human experiences, playing with it, playing with others. If you
want consistency, I am not your guy... hell, I'd probably bore
myself to tears.
At one point I was not big on ''people'', later on I softened my
approach. However, I can be a bastard or a saint at any time. It
just depends on what seems to be called for, and of course,
there is always the fun factor.
Everyone that I meet, write, or Skype with is a universe unto
themselves. In order to meet them where they are and (possibly)
assist them, it behooves me to be a flexible as possible.
I trust this answers your post to some small degree.
If one ever wanted to compliment me, something like, ''You are
the most unreasonable person I know'' would be sufficient. I
come from complete unreasonableness and have a ball doing it.
Love ya, Jed
Love ya. Jed
#Post#: 17700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 28, 2016, 10:44 pm
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Hi Jed......thanks for your response.
--- Quote ---
> Jed: I sometimes am at a loss as to why folks think that a
persona, a mask used to experience humaness, should be
consistent, should never change. Well, mind does want
consistency because that helps it to take a position and taking
a position is the first step to launching a defense. Mind just
loves the hell out of that.
--- End Quote ---
Well, that's what I was asking; Were those words just emanating
from the ever shifting persona, the mask used to experience
humanness, or were they representative of your realization of
truth...? Fwiw, I do not expect anyone to stay the same....quite
the opposite...actually am heartened when I see change as it
denotes fluidity and flexibility and that's what I see as
integral to living a good (and fun!) life...which in my
estimation is really the only thing that matters in the big
scheme. That said, it's been my experience that inherent in TR
is the realization that 'there is really no other.' To reject
'the other' therefore, is to reject Self. ..and, you did write
books from the vantage point of one who was delineating himself
as being an authority on TR. You must understand that when you
say something with authority such as "Those who think I can
offer something beyond the book are lost in Maya" from that
positon, those who are still seeking are going to take that
verbatim...and trust that you know what you are talking
about...because, after all, you have said you are enlightened,
and they are likely not.
--- Quote ---
> Truth is infinite, it has to be in order to allow for all
possibilities. I don't see much point in remaining the same,
consistent, at all. I am continually changing facets of this
human experiences, playing with it, playing with others. If you
want consistency, I am not your guy... hell, I'd probably bore
myself to tears.
--- End Quote ---
In all fairness, if you are in fact 'continually changing'
surely you too will admit, that is something relatively new,
(?) as the persona of the Jed mcKenna of the Trilogy and also
books after, remained pretty much the same. That dude was not a
people person, and he was not a fan of such things as 'ashrams'
or one on one spiritual coaching.
--- Quote ---
> However, I can be a bastard or a saint at any time. It just
depends on what seems to be called for, and of course, there is
always the fun factor.
--- End Quote ---
yeah, I would say that applies to every human being across the
board and anyone that says differently, is either lying or
unconscious to the fact.
--- Quote ---
> If one ever wanted to compliment me, something like, ''You are
the most unreasonable person I know'' would be sufficient. I
come from complete unreasonableness and have a ball doing it.
--- End Quote ---
Actually, the Jed I am conversing with here, is not unreasonable
at all...the dude though who disliked people and saw absolutely
no point in interacting with his readers beyond his books
because of that, (oh, and who said that the ones who were
interested in that, were lost in Maya) was kinda unreasonable
imo.
Re: expectancy of consistency; There are aspects of Self that
remain flexible and changing, but there are insights that are
unchanging because they are reflective of truth. ..and this very
much do have an impact upon persona. After all, there is no
separation right?
#Post#: 17701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 29, 2016, 12:27 am
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Separation is only in the dream. It started it and is it's
primary maintenance engineer.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 17712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 29, 2016, 1:00 pm
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Yup...I'm hearin' ya on that. :)
In the Trilogy, you describe speaking with your sister whom you
can barely tolerate, as it is so clear to you that she is fast
asleep....To me that sounded like someone who was allowing what
they deemed to be 'truth', to color their perception to the
degree that it created an experience of separation between you
and other, where, absent that, there could have been
enjoyment .....and maybe even....Love.
Seems to me that anytime we are judging something (or someone)
that appears in the movie/play of life, in a manner that makes
it impossible to enjoy and get the most fun out of it we can,
there is some belief/idea/thought there that we should be
looking into.
After all, you explained in the Trilogy and in TOE that you are
very adept at manifesting a personal reality to your liking...if
that is so, why would one manifest a personal reality chock full
of others who are annoyingly, fast asleep?
I have found that since identifying that I was hanging onto an
idea that said; Most folks the world over are asleep and I am
one of the few who are awake', that is simply stopped being my
experience....all sorts of others in my experience began waking
up....it was the best demonstration I could ever have received
that we're all making this entire 'play' up as we go along.
#Post#: 17723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 29, 2016, 10:20 pm
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The purpose of writing is not to give photographic like
evidence, but to nudge one along to (perhaps) a deeper or more
expansive understanding. Somethings I write are literal and
accurate, other things not totally so, but my goal is pretty
much always the same... to nudge one along.. the alternative
goal, sometimes exercised, is to play strictly for
entertainment, perhaps yours, definitely mine.
If what you are doing in life is not fun, you may want to go do
something else.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 17726--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 29, 2016, 11:17 pm
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Ah...so in other words, sometimes authors/teachers use fictional
stories to get their point across? ;) :)
#Post#: 17733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 30, 2016, 11:40 am
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hey Jed..just curious; Do you still maintain that you are adept
at creating a personal reality to your liking, as was talked
about a few times in your books?
What I find intriguing is that many who say they clearly see
that 'no idea is true', who claim enlightenment/awakening, seem
very attached to an idea that says; I am one of the few
enlightened/awakened people....enlightenment is very rare and I
am in a position of seeing things in a way that others who
appear in my experience are not able to. (basically, all the
things ideas/thought that lie foundational to one putting
himself out there as a guru'/teacher. )
If you were truly adept at creating a personal reality of your
liking, why do you seem to be hanging on to the idea that you
are enlightened and most others are not? That too, is just dream
content, no? Why not let that idea go....start to play with
another idea that enlightenment is not so rare...? Or do you
admit that it's pretty cool to get to play the only guy on a
stage full of folks wearing grey shirts that due to some
supposed fluke of fate, is wearing a bright red one?
If no belief is true, then any idea we're holding to that has
the propensity to shape the day to day content of our
experience, must also be included under that umbrella...thus, if
we're holding to any particular idea after realizing 'it's all
just ideas', the only reason that could be happening is because
we WANT to hold to that idea....we WANT to continue to have that
experience.
As I said before, there was I time I also felt like the only one
in the room wearing a red shirt...at some point though, I had to
own up to attachment to that idea...that there were certain
perks inherent in entertaining and focusing upon an idea that
said I was more awake than most.....but then I realized although
that play has it's perks, it just wasn't near as fun as being in
one where all sorts of folks were wearing red shirts, and thus
we could share and frolic from that shared understanding.
Have you ever looked into letting go of the idea that you are
awake in a world of mostly sleeping 'others'?
#Post#: 17739--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 30, 2016, 9:23 pm
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Hi Kiri:
Thank you for your thoughtful email. When one realized that
there is no ''I, me, my, mine, etc." One gets that there also
are no others, no ''you, them, they, theirs, etc. However,
playing in this human world depends to a large degree on ones
ability to intentionally assume one or more of these
positions/personas. There is no I that could ever be
enlightened. No other person who could ever be enlightened,
including you and I.
The words that come from me are lies, as is every word ever
spoken. Maya/ego created language originally for survival
purposes but later humans found survival had been more or less
taken care of and language continued largely as a means of
survival.... within their stories. This is where the sense of
being lost and out of touch with reality comes from, and most
people seem (to me) to be living in their stories.
Now, this is my experience, and I don't say it's true for anyone
else but I know it's true for me. Of course, that's just a story
as well. But keep in mind that these are only words and poor
approximations of whatever reality might be. We, you and I, have
them to play with if we choose. Might as well be a good player
and have a little fun while you are here.
Back to your last sentence, I am not awake in a world of mostly
sleeping others. There is no world, no universe, no others at
all. However, I concede to appear to be here and play this human
game... to me it's not real.. not one bit. In my observations,
almost all others I meet think it is real and deadly serious.
The only correct part is it's deadly, but only to a space
suit/persona. Find out what was there before your apparent birth
and you will know what will be there after your apparent
death... and with that, all fear will disappear.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 17742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Relationship with "others"
DIR By: kiri
Date: January 31, 2016, 12:42 am
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.
--- Quote ---
> Jed: In my observations, almost all others I meet think it is
real and deadly serious.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, that is abundantly clear....if not for observing most
others as being asleep, you likely wouldn't be doing what you
are doing. Everything you are doing...your writings, your
teachings, your future ashram, is dependent upon most others
appearing in your movie, as being asleep and your continued
observation of that.
I am wondering how that dovetails with your assertion (quote
below) that you are adept at shaping your own personal reality?
I guess the real question is: Do you prefer to continue to
experience a movie/dream/play where most of the other actors
are asleep and you are not?
--- Quote ---
> Jed McKenna: On the other hand, I have, uh, heightened
abilities might be a good way to put it, that most of you
haven't gotten around to developing or recognizing in yourselves
yet. These abilities are not really related to enlightenment
directly, though; at least, they don't hinge on it, nor it on
they. I'm talking about the ability to manifest desires, for
one. To shape your personal reality.
>
> ......Someone who doesn't have the knowledge to shape his own
personal reality might consider it a power or something
mystical, whereas to me it's just something I know how to do. I
started doing it for very practical purposes before awakening
and I never thought of it as anything but the way things really
work. There is no great mystery to it, it's only magic when you
don't know how it works. Once you know, you know....
--- End Quote ---
Why not use those abilities to shape a personal reality where
the others who appear, are not so darned sleepy? I mean, if you
like it that way, you like it that way, and it's your movie, so
no one else should try to tell you how it 'should be',
but..just sayin, with a mere shift of focus, it could soon be
quite a different experience.
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