DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
INVISIBLE GURU FORUM
HTML https://jedmckenna.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Truth Realization
*****************************************************
#Post#: 17580--------------------------------------------------
Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 24, 2016, 9:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Members:
I now jump into the free will debate with all I can draw upon. I
estimate the following to be 99% actual experience and
knowingness/experience and 1% belief, conjecture and connecting
the dots. Just my good-faith disclosure. Your thoughts and
experiences are always welcome.
In realizing that Truth is, I spun out, in a sense. It is easily
confused with thinking you are God just because that story line
is deeply woven into the human psyche. There was no me to become
God. All I am at source is Truth... but when one spins out you
reach a point where, for the first and only time in your
existence/non-existence, you have a true, real, genuine free
will choice to make. By that, I mean you get to make a choice
that is not influenced by anything or anyone. Every other
pretend choice you ever made was influenced by endless prior
factors, memories and experiences. Your choice at this point is
at the same time earth shattering and insignificant, mundane and
divine.
You can either stay in (I'm quickly running out of words) that
''drunk with the divine'' space and become a mast/sadhu/etc.
General incapable of participating in human life any more, or
you spin back and continue the human game, albeit from a
completely different level/perspective. My choice.
This experience is inevitable and unimaginable. Hence the sense
of fear you experience in completely letting go. When you are
standing on the high board ready to jump in, at least you can
hallucinate hitting the water, living and managing to swim to
the pool side. At worst, that dozing life guard might just come
to your rescue if need be. Not so with T/R. Jumping, yes, saving
your ass... no one is going to do that because they are too busy
covering their own.
But you don't have to jump. No one is going to criticize you for
not. In fact, I admire you for climbing up to the point of
feeling the truest fear there is. That in itself takes real
courage.
Whatever you do, don't fret, it's never been up to you anyways.
You job is just to relax, breathe and enjoy the entertainment.
Absolutely nothing in your world, experience, studies, blah,
blah, blah is important, nothing at all... so why get your
knickers in a knot.
Love ya, Jed
#Post#: 17582--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Kova
Date: January 25, 2016, 12:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
İ think i can undersatnd what you mean but it is not
completely the same for me, if we think i am aware what you mean
exactly. İ experienced being drunk in divine for a while
but it finished after a while but i didnt choose to come back,
it happened. Something took me back here and it was not me, not
my choice i dropped. Maybe you say something is bigger than i
know. İ feel sometimes thare are blocks attached to my
legs and my heart and they dont let me be free to go or not go,
i cant find a werb ;D Anyway but i wonder , how did you make
that choice? How did you know that you make that choice? Why did
you come back? What made you come back? Etc. Thankss..
#Post#: 17583--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 25, 2016, 1:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Reasons just doing apply in this case...
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 17586--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Kova
Date: January 25, 2016, 1:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
İ see. Ok first time when i experienced, my inner part
wanted to experience this with the people i love then i came
back. Then i begin to drop here outomatically in other
experiences . :-* :-* thank youu. İ am beginning to laugh
again thank you muchkss..
#Post#: 17589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Frits
Date: January 25, 2016, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jed,
I'm not really sure if it was a choice, or my choice, to become
a Sadhu or just come back and join the play. To me there never
was the option of becoming a Sadhu because it would be
unimaginable. So is that choice or just the way it is?
And to me the jumping was more of a falling into, and I felt no
fear, just a big surprise to find out there was no bottom to
crash into.
Anyway, the question is: are you sure that coming back, instead
of becoming a Sadhu, was your choice? Because I didn't
experience it as a free choice, just as something that turned
out to be so. But then again, you could see it as the choice of
Truth and that is of course what I am, but the character "Frits"
doesn't feel like he made a choice.
See what you did? Now I am confused. ;D
Nah, just kiddin'
Love, Frits.
#Post#: 17594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Hugh
Date: January 25, 2016, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Breathe, relax, not up to me. ...?
I've been hearing you say this for years now Jed and I'm getting
very tired of it. That state does not sound anything like the
rabid angst necessary for waking up. I can't just f-ing relax
Jed. I don't seem to move forward very quickly but that damn
gnawing always returns. That fear must be addressed. I sense
that it must be experienced fully but I don't seem to have the
road map yet - which is paradoxical since it is likely the fear
that is blinding me.
I understand the choice is not "mine" maybe. Maybe my story is
to do just enough to get me to the edge but to lack the courage
for the big jump. It sure looks that way at the moment.
Now back to the gun pointed at my head....
#Post#: 17598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 25, 2016, 8:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
...figuratively speaking I assume...
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 17603--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Amarok
Date: January 25, 2016, 12:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not concerned with God or whatever, just a concept.
Also, regardless of what I believe, the rules do exist. I have a
human body, which requires consuming energy in the form of food
to survive. In order for me to get that energy, I need to trade
it with other forms of energy (work). Therefore energy always
remains balanced, and nothing comes without a cost.
The universe continues to obey itself, and as long as my body
exists, then it too must obey the rules of the universe.
Well, that's all there is to it.
#Post#: 17606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Braden
Date: January 25, 2016, 1:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Part 1 of 2
Hi Jed
Greetings from the wet coast and wish you the best of adventures
in another illusionary calendar year of prescribed action (I
assuming if we have no free will then whatever is perceived is
either random or prescribed by the flow of nature – and the
universe doesn’t seem random so…).
Interesting (for me anyway) that this topic appears – especially
since I haven’t checked the forum for your latest drivel in
months and yet I was having similar thoughts this morning. We
psychically connected or something… :-) So here is some of my
latest drivel.
I’ve been reading Mooji – another of our latest ‘enlightened
brethren’ – he seems to say all the right things, has the
concepts and the jargon down pat enough to see himself up as an
enlightened guru.
And he is also of the “no free will” school. Hence my morning
thoughts.
Firstly, I think we run into a series of curious paradoxes with
the ‘no free will’ approach.
We couple that with the gurus answer of there is no one there to
exercise or experience free will and it seems to become a free
for all. In your own words : “There was no me to become God.”
And then you say: “You can either stay in (I'm quickly running
out of words) that ''drunk with the divine'' space and become a
mast/sadhu/etc. General incapable of participating in human life
any more, or you spin back and continue the human game, albeit
from a completely different level/perspective. My choice.”
“My Choice”.
So who is there to make a choice if there is no me?
“It is easily confused with thinking you are God just because
that story line is deeply woven into the human psyche.”
“you spin back and continue the human game”
Who spins back?
Seems to me there is little distinction between the ‘human game’
and being ‘God’.
Not only is it woven into the human psyche – but I suggest it is
woven into the psyche of whatever this ‘existence’ is.
(like you I run out of words quickly and when I make any attempt
to talk about this stuff I feel like some crazy schizoid that is
half a step away from being locked up. This crazy man continues
regardless.).
“it's never been up to you anyways.”
I agree. The dream, the dreamer are one and the same. ONE. Just
one thing going on.
There is no ‘you’ or ‘me’ – just this ONE expressing itself.
ONE expressing itself as the many.
But the ‘many’ are still ONE.
Damn paradoxes!!!
So in the front line of the perceived illusion/dream – the
murderer/rapist is just as much an expression of the ONE/Divine
as is the innocent child/loving mother.
“it's never been up to you anyways.”
But if its never been up to me and it’s all just an expression
of this ONE – isn’t this very letter I write also an expression
of this ONE?
And therefore, isn’t any idea postulated by me also an
expression of this ONE?
Don’t we kinda disappear up our own arsehole?
Damn paradoxes!!!!
So here is another concept postulated by Braden/ONE…
My observation, and also my personal experience, is there is no
escape from this human existence until you physically die.
You might say “stay in that ''drunk with the divine'' space and
become a mast/sadhu/etc. General incapable of participating in
human life any more,” but even the mast/sadhu, as long as he
inhabits human form, has to eat and take a dump. It’s just a
different way of being in a human form. As far as being
incapable of participating in human life – well – we have mental
wards full of those kind of people –but they’re still here and
still eat and take a dump.
So I’d say the choice is not so much whether or not to engage in
this sense of awareness as human form – it’s more HOW do we
choose to form ourselves as humans.
There seems to be a choice of form.
Right from the beginning of being.
So – what is it that is there as awareness?
Awareness never ceases. Awareness always is.
But it seems that awareness has a choice of identification – a
choice of form.
Doesn’t that sound like the birth of a ‘god’?
Doesn’t that sound more like ‘consciousness’ than ‘awareness’?
Indifferent awareness is a black sea – no distinction.
The appearance of “difference” is the birth of form.
And in that moment of difference – something says “I AM THAT”
and moves from indifferent awareness to different or
differentiated awareness.
And that is the birth of consciousness. IMHO.
The TRUTH is that indifferent awareness – source of all.
And into the indifference appears “difference”.
Some traditions make a distinction between ‘awareness’ and
‘consciousness’ – and I think this is what they are pointing to.
I know it may appear as if you get to make a choice of becoming
source again but it’s too late for that – that choice has
already been made with the birth of consciousness- with the
birth of I AM. The only way I can see you going back to being
source again is to give up ALL sense of form – including the
‘form’ of ‘consciousness’. In order to return to absolute
source, the spark of consciousness that observes source - has to
decide to no longer be conscious – to no longer be self aware of
‘difference’.
That would truly be a death of self.
Seems to me that the closest we as consciousness can come to
TRUTH (source, indifferent awareness) is to be stripped naked of
any influence by anything and anyone- and be raw consciousness –
a newborn consciousness. In that state we can look over our
shoulder and see where we come from.
But, and this is a big BUT – we do so from the illusion of form
– we look at indifferent awareness from the illusion of
different awareness (consciousness).
(And though I speak here as if there is a distinction between
awareness and consciousness – there is no distinction – it is
all one and the same. The reason I’m saying there is a
difference is because I see the e/tr guys making an unconscious
difference between the two and using that difference to
basically say well awareness is true and anything that appears
in awareness (consciousness) as an illusion (not true) and
seeing as how the only thing worth being is the TRUTH – then we
can completely disregard all the illusion/not true stuff. And
they’re missing the point IMHO – see next posting)
Consciousness is the mechanism of moving from ONE (indifferent
awareness) to the MANY (different awareness) (awareness of
differences – the movement of no form to form)
Which leads me to my next post…
(told you it was the drivel of a crazy man… :-)
#Post#: 17607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant... the only time you have free will, just once mind
you....
DIR By: Braden
Date: January 25, 2016, 1:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Part 2 – might want to read Part 1 first…
“Your job is just to relax, breathe and enjoy the entertainment.
Absolutely nothing in your world, experience, studies, blah,
blah, blah is important, nothing at all... so why get your
knickers in a knot.”
I keep getting this sense that enlightenment is just too big a
concept for the human psyche and when man jumps off the cliff
and sees the truth of himself – that he seems to come back to
human form not only disoriented and dis-illusioned (literally),
but comes back with a view that because perceived life is an
illusion/dream –that not only is what we take as reality not
real – but because it’s not real/an illusion – that there is no
purpose and life is reduced to just being a lot of
entertainment.
I’d like to argue that we actually do exist and that there is a
purpose and that we actually have some power to influence our
reality – and that we do have choice.
Seems to me that the human psyche sees existence as only one
thing: objective and actually appearing in some form of physical
state. And if it ain’t physical and it ain’t objective then it
just means it’s a figment of imagination and a dream and
therefore not worth considering – just fancy illusion.
E/TR shows us the illusion. Shows us there is no objective
physical reality.
Shows us that it really is just a mind game. A dream.
Ergo – no free will, no purpose, no point in the whole show –
doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Relax and just watch the
blinking lights.
Well – I say we’re looking at the truth and missing the point.
The truth is that unreality is real.
The dream is real.
We’re missing the point in that the nature of reality is as a
dream.
And as a dream is can be manipulated.
And I as the dreamer get to dream what I want.
Just because you’re a dream/fantasy/illusion doesn’t mean it’s
not a valid reality/world to live in.
Just in case you missed it – the dream/fantasy/reality IS ALL
THERE IS.
It’s either this or nothing – thing or no-thing - form or no
form.
Get used to it.
Yes it’s a big game.
So why not learn how to play that game?
Yes it’s a dream – why not learn to dream?
It’s either that or go home – and you can’t ever go home unless
you’re willing to collapse universes and cease playing god –
cease being conscious – cease being consciousness. And I don’t
think that is possible.
The moment consciousness (differentiated awareness) arose – then
I AM arose –that sense of self awareness. The first inkling of
form.
And with that first inkling of form – as you pointed out Jed –
came that sense of free will to choose. What you are talking
about Jed was the choice of form.
You took a look at source and made the choice of a certain human
form. I’d say that’s because of your limitation as a Jed form.
All you know is as human form. You just decided to be a truck
driver instead of a waitress.
Why didn’t you choose to be something other than human form?
What’s the matter – that choice not available to you?
I saying that at the birth of consciousness – at the birth of ‘I
AM’ – that consciousness now becames the dreamer and could
‘create’ whatever dream it wanted.
Yes – I Braden am a product of that spark of consciousness.
Just like everyone and everything else is.
There is all this talk of how everything “just is” – but again –
why is “just is” like this?
Of all the choices, of all the randomness that could happen in
consciousness – why this particular world/existence/reality?
It certainly isn’t random.
It may be a dream but this is a very specific dream that we are
appearing in.
This is a very specific form this little spark of consciousness
is appearing as.
My awareness, my Braden spark of consciousness is specific to
the extreme.
Why? Why this form? Why this specific limit of consciousness?
And why is “thinking you are God … so deeply woven into the
human psyche.”???
Really – why???
If you are consciousness and you can create any dream you want –
why this one?
Why one that makes men want to become gods?
Why not a dream that makes us cows? Seems like a lot less
trouble.
Like I say – it’s like the chosen few (must be chosen because
there is no free will) – the chosen few are shown the secret to
the kingdom and then they come back and say it’s just some
pointless dream – sit back and enjoy the show – there’s
something else in charge and it ain’t us so nothing we can do
except enjoy the dream.
Now I’d agree that I don’t think there’s some end point to the
dream and in that way the dream is pointless. IMHO- we’re not
all going to end up in some nirvana/heave/lotus/promised land
full of joy, bliss and wine, women and song and free cell-phones
for everyone.
But maybe there’s another purpose.
And, IMHO, the purpose is to learn a skill – a skill that sounds
a lot like being a god and creating realities. A skill that
sounds a lot like becoming a lucid dreamer and dreaming our own
dreams.
Perhaps the realization is that we are the dreamer.
That moment of choice you talk about Jed is the action of a
dreamer.
Who else is dreaming you?
That seems to me the realization.
You are the dreamer.
Yes – the TRUTH of me is ultimately awareness, all that is,
source – INDIFFERENT awareness, no form,
But what comes out of that indifferent awareness?
What comes out of indifferent awareness is DIFFERENT awareness,
awareness of ‘difference’. What comes out of NO FORM is FORM.
Consciousness is form.
The birth of God – the birth of the creator.
The birth of a dream.
The birth of the dreamer.
And the dreamer himself is a dream.
It’s all turtles all the way down.
A dreamer that begats dreamers that begat dreamers that begat
dreamers until here I sit “thinking I am God just because that
story line is deeply woven into the human psyche”.
The truth of me is I dream myself into existence.
God dreaming itself into existence.
And there is no difference between God and Braden – Braden is
God and God is Braden.
There is no purpose to the dream because the dream is illusion.
But the dream is ‘real’.
It’s real as a dream.
The dream is all there is.
There is nothing else.
Which doesn’t mean it’s not important.
Seems to me there is a point to the show- the point is that a)
it’s a dream and b) I am the dreamer.
The purpose of human existence is to learn this and to learn how
to dream, to learn how to do lucid dreaming, to learn to dream
deliberately.
The irony and paradox is that we are already doing this – we
just don’t realize this is what we’re doing.
Waking up is this realization and then learning we are the
dreamer and maybe learning how to do it deliberately.
I know Jed – another one gone off the deep end – but so be it.
But – if I don’t have free will – then this must be
consciousness coming up with these strange ideas and spitting
them out through Braden.
Consciousness is some silly bitch isn’t she...!
In Joy
Braden
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 7
DIR Next Page