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       #Post#: 13092--------------------------------------------------
       Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 20, 2015, 5:57 pm
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       After a weekend of identifying with severe depression (which
       shockingly took a lot of energy out of me) and intense 'self'
       loathing, I had an epiphany about 'attaining' freedom from the
       mind.
       The ONLY way to get freedom from the mind is to stop identifying
       with anything it says, perhaps. But...it also seems that...
       If I'm not willing to be a complete loser in life that is hated
       by everyone, seen as undesirable and all the perceived negative
       traits ever, and is totally alone, then I can never be free. If
       I believe literally ANYTHING the mind says about 'me' or anyone
       or anything else, I will forever be enslaved in this body/mind
       mechanism.
       Am I going crazy or does this make sense?
       #Post#: 13094--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: July 20, 2015, 8:41 pm
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       Dear Perp:
       Well you do present a dilemma, but is this truly an either or
       scenario.
       Let me ask this... if you found a person, say a friend or even
       just an acquaintance who was truly and genuinely enlightened,
       T/R or free or whatever descriptor you wish to use, do you not
       think that you might want to be around this person... even if
       only in the hope that some might rub off on you? Do you think
       their straight forward talk and nature would be repulsive, or
       perhaps a present change from the standard b.s. that gets passed
       off as conversation? Do you think that person would be a
       complete loser in life that is hated by everyone, seen as
       undesirable and all the perceived negative traits ever, and is
       totally alone?
       I could give you my opinion on it, but that doesn't matter. Do
       the thinking and math for yourself and get back to me.
       Oh,  and BTW, welcome to the forum and I appreciate your sincere
       sharing.
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 13108--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 21, 2015, 2:03 am
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       Contemplating your question as honestly as possible. Actually,
       Yes, I would like to be around a truth-realized person. There
       are a few people online that claim they are truth realized that
       seem like really cool people to hand around. Why? They don't
       take life seriously and do their own thing without expending a
       lot of time judging/worrying about what other people are doing.
       They can see through baloney and while they see through it, can
       still entertain it, if they feel in a playful mood. And they
       have found their own unique approach to living life and appear
       fearless. So, yes, I would think it would be cool to have a
       truth-realized friend.
       "Do you think that person would be a complete loser in life that
       is hated by everyone, seen as undesirable and all the perceived
       negative traits ever, and is totally alone?"
       ^^ When I wrote the above, I was describing what my mind judges
       whatever this 'me,'  as. Based on past experiences, my physical
       appearance, and beliefs that were ingrained since childhood. I'm
       aware that this might not be true at all. That it could be a
       relative perception, i.e. in the society I live in, I might be
       considered undesirable, a loser, dumb, weird, etc. etc. But in
       another culture/society, I might be considered the opposite.
       There is absolutely no way for me to know which is true - either
       perception COULD be true, which is a very scary and painful
       feeling, but one that I'm embracing more now.
       Hmm, you stumped me with if this is an either or scenario. Did
       you mean that you *have* to be a loser in life in order to be
       truth realized, being faulty thinking? Or, that you could be
       truth-realized and still be considered a lot of positive traits?
       #Post#: 13116--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: July 21, 2015, 12:13 pm
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       Either perception could  be true... uh.. nope, not in my
       experience. A perception is a perception,  nothing more and
       nothing Truthish about it. When you are T/R  you don't care
       about positive traits, they are made up also. A positive trait
       in one context is repulsive in another, so how can either be
       True.
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 13117--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 21, 2015, 12:34 pm
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       --- Quote from: Jed McKenna link ---
       >
       > Either perception could  be true... uh.. nope, not in my
       experience. A perception is a perception,  nothing more and
       nothing Truthish about it. When you are T/R  you don't care
       about positive traits, they are made up also. A positive trait
       in one context is repulsive in another, so how can either be
       True.
       >
       > Love ya, Jed.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Interesting point...that is something to REALLY think about. If
       something is true, it is true in all cases, at all times. Not
       switching depending on circumstances or perception/viewpoint.
       And the only thing I can think of that fits that description of
       being true at all times it the - I AM.
       That helped snap me out of the mind's very long, extensive
       thought cycle that I would typically get engrossed in.
       If all ideas/everything is made up, then really all I need to do
       is stop identifying with the mind as the source of truth. Just
       see it as 'good theater.' And just be. The universe (if it
       exists) seems to take care of me and help foster things I am
       passionate about without the mind's help.
       Sit back, relax, watch the mind do it's thing without
       identifying with it, and live in this mind/body while it lasts.
       Just allow to happen what happens. Truth realization or not.
       Enjoy the ride :)
       #Post#: 13130--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: July 22, 2015, 3:08 am
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       Dear Purp:
       You're starting to sound like a good Guru... good on ya. It's
       all theatre as you say, I often say entertainment.
       So if the ''I am'' is all that is, or appears to be Truthish for
       the moment, I would suggest that it's the best place to start. I
       see it as a portal and a very effective technique (not big on
       that word, but...)  just do it. Don't try to exclude or overcome
       anything, just continually refer back to the ''I am''', however
       you perceive it. You sense of ''I am''' may change with time and
       experience, but don't let that bother you, just stay with it.
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 13135--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 22, 2015, 9:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for the suggestion of where to focus. That part of where
       you said (In The Moment) I AM always remains really resonated
       because no matter what is happening in the moment, if it doesn't
       last forever and continuously, it's not real (and that might be
       inaccurate because some minds might continue to chatter until
       death)..hmm, then I doubt it, because is it possible to sleep
       with excessive mind chatter? I don't think so, but don't know.
       Nor is it important (another thing to remind myself). But,
       anyhow, the I AM is what remains in every single situation in
       life.
       Another thing I thought about. I seem to notice that when the
       mind judges people, it is literally talking about itself in some
       (perhaps cloaked) form. This idiom "we are all one," I don't
       really know what that means, but noticing how my mind is
       literally talking about itself (and have noticed it for
       'others') when it judges other people (good or bad) is
       absolutely hilarious (when I don't identify with it) and points
       to that idiom.
       #Post#: 13226--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 24, 2015, 1:43 pm
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       I was inspired by a different user's post about human adulthood.
       It's probably not possible to explain what it actually is, but
       you mentioned symptoms of it. This is my take on plausible
       symptoms:
       *Realizing that 'you' and only 'you' are responsible for your
       fulfillment in life and for setting up the fertile grounds for
       TR (if that is a desire)
       *Less and less focus on 'other' people and what's going on in
       the world and more on what 'you' are doing, feeling, etc.
       *The evaporation of the 'victim' and 'poor old me' mentality.
       *Realizing no one is doing anything to you (except maybe
       physically assaulting you) - that you only allow or hold on to
       beliefs that cause pain.
       *You realize what people say or think about you - is only a
       reflection of their own mind. It has nothing to do with 'you.'
       Consequently, you don't care what people think of you (good or
       bad).
       *Good/bad and all other dual labels are just that - labels. So
       judging anything is futile.
       *Acceptance of what is, what the mind does, and of what you are.
       #Post#: 13241--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: July 25, 2015, 4:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dear Perp:
       Good start. How are your symptoms?
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 13265--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Am I a Glutton for Pain, Or is this the only way to freedom?
   DIR By: purpleroses111
       Date: July 26, 2015, 1:56 am
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       My current symptoms:
       1. I feel very alone.
       2. I don't feel as a strong urge to debate with people as I used
       to.
       3. It's clear that no one can help me regarding
       truth-realization or fulfillment in life. Merely pointing.
       4. I see that I can't know anything for 100% certainly in life,
       except for I AM.
       5. Identification with the mind is lesser than ever. There are
       still bouts of depression (I had this morning) and anger, but no
       where as severe as it used to be.
       6. I don't feel compelled to judge people anymore because I see
       the ridiculousness of it - I am judging someone that is JUST
       LIKE ME.
       7. I allow the mind to say and do what it wants. It completely
       rips 'me' apart and mocks me. Full of self-hatred. So, I allow
       it and question statements and beliefs with "I don't know if
       that's true. It could be, but I don't know if it is."
       8. I don't feel the super strong urge to try to find a man to
       date as I used to. Thoughts come sometimes, but not like it used
       to be. It appears that "I" (It could be a mind game) have
       dropped the idea completely and am just prepared to be alone
       until death.
       9. Things in the news, stories that people say they heard or
       read, people's stories, and now it's focusing on my memories -
       I'm more detached from them now and don't take them seriously.
       There is a thought of "I don't know if it's true or real"
       lingering.
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