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#Post#: 8598--------------------------------------------------
Checking My Logic
DIR By: rafe
Date: January 22, 2015, 7:08 am
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Morning Jed,
These thoughts/realizations mushroomed in my head yesterday
morning and I would welcome some analysis if you have the time.
It feels like a slow crystallization.
Perceiver-Perception-Perceived can't disappear. Even if you
took away all methods of physical perception, leaving only
consciousness, then consciousness would simply begin imaging new
things to perceive. It would immediately relaunch P-P-P like
rebooting a computer. How long would it take a newly imagined
dream world to seem as concrete as this dream world.
People say that removing the senses would be like sleep without
dreams and assert that particular scenario as proof of a time
when Consciousness does not exist. This is presented as an
argument that Consciousness is not Truth/All. But we've never
experienced a state of no consciousness and to assert we have is
faulty logic. We have experienced sleep with dreams, sleep with
a hint of dreams we can barely remember, and periods of time we
call unconscious because our waking-reality selves don't recall
certain periods when we were asleep. But no memory of events is
not the same as no Consciousness during those events. I don't
have any memory of being born, but I assume to have been
conscious at that apparent event.
So, you can't take perceived away from perceiver (and perception
is just as inextricable). You said it perfectly: you can't
take wet out of water. But you can change its state. If the
three are the same, then "the perceived" is me in waking
consensus reality as certainly as it is me in what is called our
dreams.
With deep Gratitude,
Rafe
#Post#: 8622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Checking My Logic
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 23, 2015, 10:10 am
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Dear Rafe:
I'll just take one of you sentences,
Perceiver-Perception-Perceived can't disappear. Even if you
took away all methods of physical perception, leaving only
consciousness, then consciousness would simply bregin imaging
new things to perceive. It would immediately relaunch P-P-P
like rebooting a computer.
Is this really true? If so, tell me how you know, what have you
done in order to determine it? You are imagining how things will
be (you said ''it would'') which indicates you are just imaging
what would happen, not experiencing. Look and see and let me
know.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 8722--------------------------------------------------
Re: Checking My Logic
DIR By: rafe
Date: January 25, 2015, 7:06 am
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Morning Jed,
Below I've begun breaking down the statement as you suggested.
I keep running into the fact that I just don't know...and then
what? I can't make a statement that I can back up. Again, I
would appreciate any direction, especially regarding the
Terrence Mckenna information.
I don’t have direct knowledge that P-P-P can’t disappear, but I
don’t have direct knowledge that it can either.
I don’t know that all methods of physical perception could be
taken away. I don't even really know what physical perception
is.
What is a physical perception?
A physical perception appears to be non-physical data
interpreted as and acted upon under the assumption that it
actually is what it is presumed to be. CIRCULAR!
Who would take it away and where would it go?
The question assumes that it could be taken away. The question
assumes there is someone other than me to take from me. The
question assumes there is a me. The question assumes that there
is somewhere other than here. The question assumes that here is
actually here. I have no direct knowledge of “other than here”
especially because I don’t know where “here is.” I don’t even
know how I would determine the boundary of here-not-there. For
example is a dream here or not? Where is awareness? Can it go
anywhere? If we are the space in which this “stuff” exists,
then dimensional language such as here and there, or locality of
any kind is irrelevant.
I studied Terrence Mckenna’s works for a long time before I
embarked upon an exploration of DMT. Five different journeys
gave me a life-time of data to consider and I’ve filled journals
trying to understand the experience. It seems related here.
The most I can say about it at this point is that I/Not-I
went/stayed to/in a place/not-a-place in which Rafe was/wasn’t.
There was what I would call individuated consciousness but words
fail here because the individuated aspect was not individual at
all. There was no division, period. As such, all duality
became pretty entertaining: right/wrong, good/evil,
Rafe/Not-Rafe, now/later, etc… totally laughable. This is the
most direct knowledge I have of something that seems to point at
Truth. Even death did not make sense there. It appeared more
like one of those 3-d art works where you have to adjust your
eyes just so in order to make the three dimensional aspect pop.
It looks like one thing until a subtle shift exposes a totally
different version of reality.
Who would leave only consciousness?
Don’t know.
I don’t know that it is true that consciousness would simply
begin imagining new things to perceive.
I don’t know that it would immediately relaunch P-P-P like
rebooting a computer.
Can any of these questions even be answered if I don’t know who
is asking them nor who would answer them. It’s a little like a
dog chasing its own tail.
#Post#: 8723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Checking My Logic
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: January 25, 2015, 7:12 am
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It's a lot like a dog chasing it's tail. Can you just be with
the not-know? Why would you have to know anything? Is it even
possible?
Well, I don't know, let me know if you find out... no... don't.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 8724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Checking My Logic
DIR By: rafe
Date: January 25, 2015, 7:43 am
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By the way, does BYOFT mean Be Your Own F*&%ing Truth? It's
funny what lodges in the mill.
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