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       #Post#: 6210--------------------------------------------------
       Stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: December 11, 2014, 9:11 pm
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       BeAware posted a question and I responded to it. I was going to
       save this for later but its a huge issue that has not been
       understood. So, here my guts I doth spilleth.
       You hit the nail right on the head and that's one of the main
       components of Navigation. Also, it's a major shortcoming of
       every existing system that suggests you don't believe your
       thoughts. It's one thing to know a belief is not true, but
       humans hold onto thousands of beliefs they know are not true.
       (he shouldn't have left me, hit me, cheated me, loved another,
       blah, blah, blah or I need money, love, attention, blah, blah,
       blah), but it's another thing to disbelief a thought that you
       believe is true, and yet doesn't serve you, or just pops up on
       it's own at inconvenient times.
       Beliefs are just thoughts about thoughts and forcing yourself to
       believe that something is not true does not bring the relief you
       seek. It just creates more thoughts.
       Disbelieving a thought on a mental level/logical level can be
       done, that's hard enough, but getting it at a gut level and then
       an unconscious level is almost impossible with current
       technologies. You could spend years working on one belief, and
       have thousand created in the meantime. Here's a silly example.
       See if you can relate to it.
       You see someone who is overweight and judge that they should be
       thinner. You can't help it, mind just comes up with it. Now if
       you do certain techniques you will see that they aren't thinner,
       they are simply fat. Some people teach that what is is, and
       going against reality causes suffering. True in a way but as
       usual, there is more to it, plenty more. There is an elephant in
       the room and until the Nav Series it has not been dealt with.
       The thought that she should lose weight and the viewing of the
       person are both happening in mind and you know what, the kicker
       is that person would feel better, be happier, be more
       attractive, be healthier and be a better lover if they did lose
       weight. A further truth is neither of these things, your
       thoughts or belief in them, are real. Your judgment is a thought
       and the fat gal is a thought. Your mind then enters into a war
       thinking it shouldn't' believe it's thoughts, but which one
       should it not believe. The thought that she shouldn't be fat, or
       the thought that that thought it's true, or the thought that you
       shouldn't judge her or that you are indeed bad in order to
       perceive her as fat, or perhaps you are just fat for thinking
       fat. Geez, it can, and often does, go on and on and on. (I could
       afford to lose a few pounds now that I think of it).
       Forget any b.s. about not judging. Judging got humans where they
       are and it is so deeply ingrained that you will probably never
       stop it. It's what we do. Best deal with it. So the teacher says
       don't believe your thoughts by questioning them. Much, much
       easier said than done. Have you tried to disbelieve a thought.
       No one has ever taught you how. (Daddy raped me but, you know,
       it's o.k., now that I understand more. Just not his fault....
       NOT! I ain't big on child raping and it was his fault because no
       one held a gun to his head, new age b.s. aside.)
       Just take a thought and try to change your belief in it. Keep in
       mind the thought and the belief are both just thoughts. Dad
       shouldn't have hit me. What, he should have? Some teachers will
       tell you yes, that was perfect. Sorry gang, my bullshit detector
       is going off big time. I don't think abuse of any kind is
       particularly optimal. Simple as that. It certainly may have
       occurred, but I consider humans hitting humans to be less than
       optimal regardless of how much reality is applied. This also
       applies to bombing, shooting, raping, etc., just less than
       optimal and not necessary in our current world. It's time for us
       to step beyond that, but that's just my thought.)
       But how do you deal with all that. If you try to force yourself
       to disbelieve your thought, just the opposite occurs, you give
       it attention, you beat yourself up when you fail and you playing
       right into Maya/ego's game. Either victim or martyr, she doesn't
       give a damn.  She is laughing her ass off at you and you have
       never been shown what is going actually going on. I'm not
       blaming you because you have no alternative knowledge of how to
       deal with it, and trust me on this on, it has to be dealt with.
       I can think of one technique in particular where this comes up
       big time and the teacher, whom I do admire and does much good in
       general, often says words to the effect that he/she doesn't want
       you to change your thoughts about a given event.
       Do the logic... you've studied the material and come to his/her
       seminar for relief from the belief that a particular thought is
       true, bad or harmful. Yes, I happen to agree that daddy
       shouldn't have raped you. Seems to me that would be a pretty
       sane thought to have, one that a H/A might have. But it's
       causing you problems big time, it just messes with things a
       whole bunch keeps you from T/R work, which is what Maya/ego
       wants of course.
       Nobody ever stands up and says, "wait a minute, I came here to
       change my thoughts about something and you're telling me you
       don't want me to change anything... bugger that." Cognitive
       dissonance sets in and someone yells 'FIRE'.
       I have immense respect for the person who teaches it, but there
       is a rather large elephant in the room. (BTW, there was one, a
       real one, and a huge sucker, grazing outside my favorite
       restaurant yesterday afternoon, no no no, I was not
       hallucinating, and I sure wasn't paying his tab).
       I found a workable solution, one that everyone I know of has
       missed. It's not that difficult. It just takes an explanation of
       what is really going on, an understanding and a little skill
       development. Denying, suppressing, forcing yourself to believe
       something was good/o.k. when it was not, was true, blah, blah,
       blah, etc. are only band-aids at best. This techniques gives you
       the option of removing all the power you want to from a thought
       that is not serving you. Once you have mastered the skill it can
       be done is a little as a moment or two. Particularly nasty
       matters can take a little longer, but it is very quick and,
       equally as important, painless. It requires no conflict with
       what is.
       Some of you have guessed by now that the application of this
       technology in PTSD is definitely called for.
       Thanks much for raising the point BA.
       Love ya, Jed.
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 6214--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Misha
       Date: December 11, 2014, 10:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi Jed,
       Isn't the issue with ANY thought or belief or emotional package
       that won't let go (that a person can't change the thought or
       belief or emotion about just by "understanding" on some level
       that "it's not true") the RESISTANCE that is going on in the
       person around whatever the thought, belief, emotion is?
       And whether we realize it or not while in it, the resistance is
       what HURTS.  So the thought, belief, emotion(s) hurt bc of the
       resistance going on within--resistance TO the thought, belief,
       emotional stuff.  And it hurts so much that we resist the
       resistance; compounding the agony and the trauma.  So instinct
       says:  better not to even LOOK, bc when you look, when you open
       awareness to any of it, there's that hurt/resistance/ongoing
       thing, compounded (getting bigger) every time one looks with the
       hope that it won't hurt anymore.
       So the challenge is to learn how to stop resisting.  To open to
       all the hurt.  It's a reorientation.  It's like opening out arms
       and legs in a theoretical but seemingly-real river full of
       pirahna and letting them feed...then seeing along the way and
       after that well no, nothing got actually eaten away.  Except the
       resistance, and resistance-equipment within.
       What other way is there to cease resisting, except to
       continually open inwardly to the resistance and the effects of
       the resistance (which are all really "just" more resistance)...?
       [Some relief has been found among PTSD sufferers using an
       approach that does a version of this--but they also use
       identity-rebuilding techniques which takes it all off in a
       different direction for "that other" fleeting kind of relief.
       But I would submit that the degree of real relief obtained by
       this kind of approach, no matter how LITTLE of it a PTSD
       sufferer does or is led through doing, is a result of the
       burning-off that it causes--burning-off of the resistance, by
       letting the resistance burn off the resistance-equipment in the
       person.  Ironically, the nailed-to-the-cross posture of full
       openness (to the resistance and its effects when opened to) is
       descriptive of what seems called for....]
       --Misha
       #Post#: 6217--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: know1
       Date: December 11, 2014, 11:12 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Interesting, while the experience of PTSD events seems to be the
       triggering factor of pain and displeasure, it's my experience
       (and how I unloaded the gun of such experiences) that it was my
       "story" of what the experience meant that was causing constant
       reflection on the events and subsequent immobilization.
       When I logically and emotionally re-callibrated the events to
       just events without "me" and my "story" attached they lost their
       power over my mind and subsequently fell away from my thoughts
       all together. This process took years and a lot of therapy, I'm
       interested to see the Yellow AMC Pacer on the track, put it
       through it's paces...
       #Post#: 6218--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: December 11, 2014, 11:28 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dear Mischa and Know:
       Thank you for you thoughtful responses. Old tech for sure. Here
       I go...
       Mischa, you said, learn how to stop resisting. How? It's a setup
       to resist resisting. Round and round it goes. This is the
       point... all systems currently available are based on subtle
       tricks of Maya/ego to keep you in the fight and thinking you are
       making headway. And then, like Know said, after a number of
       years of therapy and hard work you make some headway. I don't
       deny that for a moment, you certainly can. But you can also walk
       from New York to California in about the same time, or take more
       modern transportation. Most therapy is complete b.s. because any
       good therapy puts one out of business quickly. It's not rocket
       science, I'd call it stupid science and then drop the word
       science.
       Love ya, Jed.
       #Post#: 6222--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Tony
       Date: December 11, 2014, 11:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I guess its like when the man is in love with a woman and she
       dumps him.  He longs after her for months but the one day sees
       her with his best friend and the love stops that moment which a
       moment ago was torturing him.  Where did the "love" go?
       Awareness of what you weren't aware of before seems key.  When
       the me is taken out of the story the mind has no more investment
       and the just drops it.     Well until I can dive into the Nav
       series Il just sit with the fat girl, share my deep fried mars
       bar with her ; )
       #Post#: 6225--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: December 11, 2014, 11:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       ;D
       #Post#: 6232--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Gwen8
       Date: December 12, 2014, 1:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Dearest Jed,
       Changing the focus from the judgement and the inner judge
       To the unjudgemental openness that gives room to all judgements.
       Very humbling
       Love
       Gwen
       #Post#: 6239--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Fear
       Date: December 12, 2014, 4:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       One one level its that you think anything can/couldve been
       different. Your dad your parents your thoughts, the events.
       Sure.
       Further its the memory itself. Imagine daddy loving you and
       caressing you. And then imagine him doing what he did. Whats the
       difference? Your gut reaction?
       So my gut tells me what is true/important and what is not? I
       mean ye, Im not banged in the head, but its just a little I
       dunno cheap. Its like theres no truth to human life at all.
       WHat have I got to go on? Gut reactions? Belief systems? n +1 +1
       +1 confirmations of others that are at best as credible as your
       own BS crafted by who knows what kind of past? Feeling of every
       and any kind? ANd then thought of every and any kind? ANd beyond
       that? Its nothing. There only silence. Silence to me is the most
       fucking credible in this what I appear to consist of.
       Not even your dad can rape you the whole day. SO at best you
       were mostly bored in that dungeon, underneath the fear and
       anticipation (thoughts and feeling).Fear and boredom layering
       lack of meaning, volition or power. Your life still a piss in
       the wind of stillness.
       And yet I know Im missing one HUGE fucking block. (help Jed)
       Wake up.
       #Post#: 6242--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Fear
       Date: December 12, 2014, 5:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       To hallucinate and communicate my seeing of PTSD.
       We got like one life, one person, one death idea. What if Ptsd
       is just a life with two deaths ( like twins instead of a single
       child)?
       There you go, your whole personality, your whole life
       constructed, going to one thing , the death of your person, your
       life , and somehow something still goes on, all in the
       course of a still "regular" life. Like chapters or something.
       Maybe you dont even get it if your not aware enough, maybe PTSD
       is a "problem" only if you are blessed to be aware of it.
       the Intelligence, if I hallucinate it works with "you" is giving
       you the unique and painful opportunity to die, or maybe you
       already died ( or holding onto a massive energy chunk that you
       know will kill you if you dont block it via you know what). But
       whatch you gonna do, stay in a dead personality or just finnally
       get yourself killed and move on? is there a choice?
       Yesterday I stoud outside on cold sunset, I wish I go inside, I
       didnt even enjoy susnset or anything, I just didnt really want
       to go in nor did I enjoy what I was doing, for like an hour,
       just being there, being uncomfortable. So what?
       #Post#: 6245--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed rant stop believing thoughts and the Nav Series
   DIR By: Stephan Caspers
       Date: December 12, 2014, 5:31 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If I throw dogpoop at your face, how long it takes before you
       whipe it off? Probably within seconds.(or perhaps use it as
       beauty mask)
       Consider the following: everything, whether emotional or
       thoughts or BS, what is is a continuous dogpop snowball fight.
       I got one word for beliefs: Disgusting
       Love you,
       Stephan
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