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#Post#: 41810--------------------------------------------------
2 different Enlightenments
By: Rog Date: June 30, 2020, 4:15 pm
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This is an observational question.
It seems like there are 2 different enlightenments, and why
people seem to speak of different things when they say it. It
seems confusing, the contradictions.
Lets say it seems like there is enlightenment in the dream, and
enlightenment from the dream. One is Truth realization just the
Truth as it is, and one is more experiencing oneself as
Knowing/Being/Enlightened.
In the dream enlightenment could be said to be ultimately false,
although its what is striven for.
From the dream enlightement seems to be True awakening, but its
not what most people want or are looking for when they *think*
enlightenment.
In the dream enlightenment seems to equate to a kindof general
acceptance, happiness, good will, maybe bliss or something for
some? Love for others, compassion, etc... But I guess you
could say its really a byproduct and not the thing in itself,
would this be accurate?
So I'm kindof defining it as, there is relative enlightement or
Truth, and actual Truth.
And maybe one needs to encounter/Be the actual truth to be able
to align properly to/in relative truth. So relative truth
revolves around actual Truth, its beholden to it. Actual Truth
makes relative Truth possible. What else COULD relative truth
align to? Except itself, if it didn't know, but that would be
chasing itself in a circle as the lie it is.
That from the inside of the dream, or from the relative
perspective these are two different things. But from the Truth
perspective there's only one thing.
I'd just like feedback on the accuracy of this, if I were to
explain it to someone and try to convey something to point out
and alleviate or define the source of confusion and
differentiation.
One is the experience of enlightenment, and one is the actual
Truth state itself, which is a no-experience state which is
Enlightenment itself, but which the *experience* of
enlightenment can happen in or relative to?
Sorry if im rambling. The mind wants things to be kosher and
make sense even if it can't grasp the thing it thinks it want
to. 😄 I like understanding, I like solving the
miscommunication and confusions, undermining the finger pointing
and "Im right and hes wrong'ing" and being able to communicate
something that would help someone understand what they're
fighting with in themselves in the misunderstanding. Although
I'm sure that's a my own ego trip too. : )
Thanks
#Post#: 41812--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Jed McKenna Date: June 30, 2020, 11:03 pm
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Hi Rog:
Quite well put.... a little convoluted but good thinking as
thinking goes. Yes, it's your egoic mind that wants to
understand the impossible-to-understand, but that's quite
understandable. I wish you all the failure in the world, and
that is a most loving wish. Regarding your mention of explaining
it to others, as you said, ''being able to communicate something
that would help someone understand what they're fighting with in
themselves in the misunderstanding.'' Let that go, it's a fool's
errand which only fools like myself have taken on."
In the past, I realized that there were many teachers who had an
engaging story but, IMHO, were not quite there. In addition, I
felt that where they were sounded like, well... a little like
they had dug a hole, gone down deep and discovered much about
self and life, and then filled all round themselves with cement.
Long ago I labeled that an ''Enlightened Ego'' as different from
plane (but real) ''Enlightenment''. One of the key words that
gives things away is when someone talks about 'you' getting
enlightened, it doesn't happen that way... as you have probably
sussed out by now. When someone said they can ''transmit''
enlightenment, my body turned around and walked the other way.
The other point that, in my experience, is a strong confirmation
of genuine enlightenment is as expression like, ''I can believe
how ordinary it its''.
It's all well and good to analyze and use your brain, up until
the point that you find your brain will not take you any
further. That is a rather special moment, and it's where fear
usually pops up... an ''Oh sh it'' moment. To be welcomed if you
possibly can.
Never forget that this journey is all about 'you' and until you
find out who that real 'you' is, or isn't, focus only on 'you'.
Love ya and stay healthy, Jed.
P.S. I have used T/R and Enlightenment synonymously for not
particular reason.
#Post#: 41820--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Rog Date: July 1, 2020, 12:22 pm
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Thanks for the advice, Im sure you're right. I generally find
out later its my own internal confusion or convolution Im really
working out when I project it into the world or on others or
situations and such, but somehow I still haven't completely
caught onto myself doing it overall. 😅 Each time I hit
that bump I go through this little process all over again as if
I haven't done it so many times before. I kindof realized I was
doing it just after posting the question and asking for thoughts
on it, but I guess expression is one way of making tangible and
seeing the internal/intangible things.
#Post#: 41824--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 2, 2020, 12:47 am
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Remember, the ultimate solvent is awareness, bring it to the
party and let it do all the work.
Love ya, and stay healthy.
Jed.
#Post#: 41835--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Rog Date: July 2, 2020, 11:26 pm
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No need to reply to this, but I appreciate this 😄:
"Awareness is the ultimate solvent."
A picture worth a thousand words, yes? Speaks to anyone who
ever learned in grade school (middle school? whenever it was)
that water was the "universal solvent."
Both very clear. 😄
#Post#: 41836--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Rog Date: July 3, 2020, 12:13 am
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Well. I will sidetrack a bit and ask a secondary observational
question. Based on your reply re: transmitting enlightenment.
I do get that there may be a difference of you being in a
particular experience and knowing right where you stand that the
person saying such a thing is full of malarkey, but wouldn't you
kindof also say that you DO transmit enlightenment?
Even if we consider transmission as a "thing" in the air, and
full enlightenment being a non-thing, isn't that non-existence
also transmitted through the vehicle/body/consciousness whatever
you wanna call it, of "Jed Mckenna?"
So, based on my VERY brief moment being in that state, "I" had a
conversation with a friend through text. And she was freaking
the **** out because even though I was texting her (and nothing
unpleasant or weird, just an explanation of "um, this weird
thing happened....") she thought I was going to kill myself. I
found this highly comical at the time. 😂 The reason she
thought this was because of the vacancy. "Rog," who was ALWAYS
there and came through very warmly in text, was suddenly
non-existent.
This was VERY interesting because I didn't realize she would
recieve exactly what I was putting out at that moment. I would
have assumed she would see words on her screen and equate it to
the same memory of me she's always had, but no, she literally
couldn't feel me at all, or ANYONE/ANYTHING behind the screen as
the words popped up, and in retrospect I felt a little bad cause
I wasn't trying to scare her, but yes, her entire reception of
me became like talking to the dead, or a ghost, or nothing. I
can only validate this because "I" was there (something still
keeping track of important points and making referencing
memories even despite no "I"...)
I feel this is also true of love and such. Warmth is
transmitted in this case, welcomeness, acceptance, etc...
(Also, I've often thought of love as being the universal grease.
😄 If awareness be the universal solvent.)
It does seem to me as if enlightenment is transmitted somewhat
even if the recipient doesn't really know what theyre dealing
with. Otherwise why would you have any students or highly
interested readers and such at all? 😄
Sometimes its the stupid things. Like someone at work is
spouting very small minded political views, and youre doing your
VERY best to be nice about it and all you can do is smile and
say "Hmm..." But you "Hmm" conveys such a vast amount if
non-validation or non-agreement (I guess?) that you KNOW the
other person is suddenly hearing their own voice and own words
and seeing how it sounds kindof funny coming out of their mouths
maybe the way it sounds a little judgemental or far fetched to
you, and they do some mental recalibration to figure out why
they're repeating someting that suddenly doesn't even make any
kind of sense to themselves, and seems obvious that it doesn't
make sense where before they could ignore the nonsensicalness of
it every time.
Again, sorry for the slight rant. I have these weird life
experiences to reference a point so it takes a bit of
explanation to get through them. But just to say I'm not sure
on the whole "transmisson" idea, it doesnt seem so B.S. although
I can totally see how people would steal that and then try to
sell it. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
#Post#: 41837--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 3, 2020, 3:11 am
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Hi Rog:
Thanks for sharing, and nothing wrong with being 'rantish'. I am
pretty careful with words and in my hallucination, quite good
with using them. In order for the illusion of communication to
arise, a mutually agreed upon definition is required. L. Ron was
very clear on this with his Scientology (most of which was
egomoniacal rubbish, but he did have a few very good
explanations).
I define transmission as sending something to another. If you
have electrical transmission lines then they send electricity
down the wire. Continuing with this metaphor, the electricity of
T/R is always available in the wires... and people are sitting
at home wanting it... because THEIR switches are turned off. Ya
with me?
I show people how to turn those switches on and the rest takes
care of itself. And, one turns those switches on mostly by
kicking the sticks our from under them, which sticks are keep
them turned off. From my perspective, the way 'transmission' is
sold, it just a con. If you give me a room of a hundred people,
make up a b.s. spiritual setting with all the right lighting,
pastel colors and complimentary flowers... make sure everyone
talks with an air of illusory lovingness and in soft tones, I
absolutely guarantee there will be two or three people in the
audience who are ready to 'pop', perhaps into T/R, but most
often, just a huge emotional release that has been building up
for years in them. They are pretty easy to spot.
I bring them up to the front of the audience, give them that
profound 'guru' look and touch then in their third eye... and...
whoa... out it comes. They are in front of a hundred eager
beavers and it's time to let it all go, and a little performance
on their part is called for as well. I am not saying this is bad
in any way. It's often quite wonderful, but it is seldom genuine
T/R.
No one can literally transmit and awareness of what one is to
another person, it just cannot be done. Granted, that it may
certainly appear to be done at times, but that's just theater.
Everyone in the audience will spend two days floating and then
go back to base line. You cannot transmit to someone what they
are, or the awareness of what they are. In a sense, it would be
a tremendous disservice. Everyone has to travel this journey
and, in the final analysis, they travel alone, discover what
they discover and OWN their work and discoveries, I didn't set
up this infinite game, I just realized how it works.
Much love and I suggest you stop thinking... you are doing way
too much. You have been trying to figure things out all you
life, and on this front, T/R, you have failed. It's the best
thing that can happen to you, truly the best.
Jed.
EST was very confrontive in a way that actually works better
than warm fuzzies.
#Post#: 41853--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Rog Date: July 4, 2020, 9:33 pm
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I appreciate the explanation. : )
#Post#: 41861--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2 different Enlightenments
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 6, 2020, 2:44 am
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... and I appreciate your clear question...
Cheers.
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