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#Post#: 41826--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jenci Date: July 2, 2020, 3:14 am
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The body cannot be Me because I can’t find Me/I in the body and
if it is mine (meaning belonging to Me) then it cannot also be
Me.
This is a lie which has been hiding from me all my life. How is
it that all the great minds in the world never question this?
Everybody (almost all) believes the same thing, without any
question. Society just re-enforces the lie. An assumption has
been made which is clearly wrong and belief then just happens.
If that is wrong, what about the idea that the body is mine?
Mine - definition “belonging to or associated with the speaker”
How does the body belong to me? When did that occur? Ownership
of something usually happens because you are given it, you buy
it, you steal it, you find it, you create it, etc.
How did this body become to be mine? It’s the result of the
union of a sperm and egg from bodies that my parents believed
was them. But they didn’t create this body? No human knows how
to create something as complex as a body with all its organs and
limbs. Once the union of sperm/egg happens, the rest happens
naturally by itself or by a force outside of human intervention.
Siddharameshwar (Nisargadatta’s teacher) said “Then to whom does
the body belong? Who is the ‘owner’ of the body? The five
elements (Earth, Water, Light (Fire), Air (Wind) and Space) have
the right ownership to this body. After the body falls, each of
these elements takes away their own share, thereby destroying
the body.”
Could that be true? It seems more feasible that these five
natural elements have more claim to ownership of the body that I
do.
So now I am googling what happens to dead bodies and how they
decay.
“a rotting corpse is teeming with life”
“scientists view a rotting corpse as a cornerstone of a vast and
complex ecosystem”
“a better understanding of the cadaveric ecosystem - how it
changes over time and how it interacts with and alters the
ecology of the wider environment”
What is actually observable seems to support Siddharameshwar’s
claim. Nature’s elements own the body. They create it and they
destroy it. It’s all done very intelligently. Far beyond the
intelligence of any human being.
Definition of mine also states ‘associated with the speaker’,
The sense I does appear to have its viewpoint from within the
individual human body. Easy to understand the association there.
But how does that sense I - consciousness - get into the body in
the first place?
People with T/R say that everything IS consciousness. If true,
that would explain that consciousness appears in the body as the
body is created because the body is consciousness/consciousness
is the body. The difference with human beings compared to all
other things, is that humans have a mind which gives them the
ability to recognise their consciousness.
I don’t know (or remember) what it is like to be a dog, a worm
or a rock but they don’t appear to be self-conscious to me, with
all the baggage that brings, like humans appear to be afflicted
with.
- So if the ownership of the body is by association with it
- due to the human ability to recognise consciousness
- because a human has a mind/intellect which thinks and
discriminates
- which is a product of the brain organ
- which is a product of the whole body
- which was created by the natural elements
- and will be destroyed by those natural elements
Then both ownership and association with either the body or the
I AM consciousness is a Lie.
Both the body and the I Am consciousness appear and disappear
together - permanently with birth/death and temporarily during
deep sleep.
It’s all a Lie. A fundamental lie hidden so deep with layers
and layers, not just by me, my family, teachers, society and
anyone else who taught me but through millennia of human
conditioning.
Questions remaining -
Knowing is not enough, how do I break the conditioning? Explore
how much control I have of the body.
Who am I?
#Post#: 41827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jenci Date: July 2, 2020, 3:31 am
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Hi Jed,
The little I am is always changing and subject to the two polar
opposites. I am happy, I am sad, I am great, I am bad. It always
has a story attached to it - I am - followed by sad and all the
reasons why and so on an so on.
The big I AM is still, never changing, not subject to polar
opposites. It's just I AM followed by full stop/period. There is
no story attached. No drama.
Little I am is noisy. Always something to say. Always begging
for attention.
Big I AM is silent. Never noticed in the noise but can be found
to be always there on investigation.
Both I AMs are subject to time. Both appear and disappear. The
little I am can disappear through discrimination. The big I AM
during deep sleep.
Neither are real but the big I AM is the most Truthish. It is
the only thing that remains when the discriminating mind
eliminates everything else.
The big I AM is the portal. It's the gate. Supposedly it is a
gateless gate, so I am told but I will take gate for the time
being. It's where my attention needs to go. Distractions are
Maya's soldiers in this battle. Keeping attention on the big I
AM is no easy task.
There's something bugging me right now about this big I AM. I
need to understand it more. I picked up Nis's book Seeds of
Consciousness last night. It's never appealed to me before but
it seems apt right now with the title. He is hammering home to
his students the importance of understanding what this I AM is
and where it came from.
The inquiry is ongoing...
#Post#: 41829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Death_by_SallyD Date: July 2, 2020, 6:04 am
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I host a body.
In me, a body was born....grows/advances.....dies/recedes. i.e.
its coming and going....ultimately its gone, been gone...never
was.
Not too long ago, this body became an ephemeral smear....like
luminous paint gathered in a multicolored gob at the end of a
brush......pink.....cobalt blue and deep crimson maroon. In a
single gesture from some inflection deep within infinity, a
counter clockwise circular stroke saw my body spread in
zero-shaped Enso glyph.....pink-white from 11 o'clock
transitioning to blue anddark crimson backward to 1 - 12
o'clock. Can one even call that "my body" anymore? I was the
hollow tube of awareness around which this gesture flourished.
Beyond, even.....the vast, infinite field within which the whole
display, experience manifested and dispersed.
It's no different now, even though appearances within that are
different (they always will be). I am.....within which this
more recognizable experience is twaddling away on a keyboard as
dawn crests and Pepper, our miniature cat, balances/launches off
hand rail of porch just outside study window. It's another
beautiful gesture painting which will not last....will give way
to another as I get up to go pee! :D
#Post#: 41830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 2, 2020, 8:00 am
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Love it...
I was the hollow tube of awareness around which this gesture
flourished.
Fits so well it sent me into fits of laughter.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 41831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Death_by_SallyD Date: July 2, 2020, 8:15 am
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;D :P
#Post#: 41832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jenci Date: July 2, 2020, 8:40 am
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How much control do I have over the body and the mind?
Bodily functions happen without any input from me.
I say things I don’t want to say.
I do things that I don’t want to do.
I don’t like how the body looks and nothing I can do gets it to
how I want to look. I give myself grade A for effort for the
amount I have tried to change this.
When I want to speak, I open my mouth and the words don’t come
out.
When I know I must be quiet, I speak.
When I need to think, my mind is blank.
When I need quiet, the mind will not shut up.
I think thoughts which I don’t want to think.
All evidence suggest that body/mind is not me and it doesn’t
belong to me either.
I have spent an extraordinary amount of energy in trying to be
me in the way that I think I should be me. It never works and I
am exhausted with it.
Surrender? i failed at that too. Guess what…I don’t have control
over that either.
Letting go happens of its own accord. Little by little I find I
am unable to exert self will over something. It’s a slow
process. I have no control over that either.
Am I letting go of control or am I letting go of the illusion
that I had control in the first place? Or is there no me doing
any letting go?
Today I believed I was the body and the mind. The mind says it
shall do better tomorrow!! ;D
The mind understands this at the intellectual level but it is
the mind is also known as Maya/ego and its job is to maintain
the illusion of control.
Realisation needs to be at a deeper level of being.
Discipline
Patience
Contemplation
Discrimination
Attention
Abide as the I AM.
It’s not easy. It shouldn’t be.
Patience
Slow down
#Post#: 41834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 2, 2020, 9:41 am
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If it was easy, everyone would have done it by now.... kinda
spoil the game don't ya think?
''oh yeah'' ....
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqAVuE524Gk
Great flick. Probably the best part is it's more real than one
might imagine... I did go to Fargo once, it was winter also. A
very good place to avoid, IMHO.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 41838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jenci Date: July 3, 2020, 6:34 am
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I said the I AM was still and not moving. I'm not so sure now.
It's still in terms of contrast to the little I am which is
always moving between polarities. But there is something there
with this big I Am.
It's constant but I sense it is pulsing, like an energy. It's
the restlessness which drove my addictions. There's something
not at ease with it. A sense of being not at ease with being.
??? ???
Is that true or my interpretation? Who is interpreting what?
Needs further investigation.
#Post#: 41839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jenci Date: July 3, 2020, 6:46 am
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I've established that the body and mind is not me, nor does it
belong to me.
I have no control over it either.
What about everyone else? Of course they must be in the same
situation as me.
What if all the times other people did something I didn't like
and hurt me, what if they had no choice either? The mind doesn't
like that, it's got stories about blame but even it sees the
logic in that.
How often have I actually seen someone really change their
behaviour? Lots of people try but how many really achieve it?
Maybe if there is a transformative event but that might suggest
that change is happening due to something deeper than
"self-will"
If I am not in control, then no one else is. Mind - have a think
about that next time you want to place blame!
#Post#: 41840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Do you have a body? Seriously... let's explore that....
By: Jed McKenna Date: July 3, 2020, 9:08 am
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Find out if you have actually have a body, or it is just a
thought. As it gets less and less tangible... you will find that
other people tend to disappear, then it's on to the world and
then the universe. Is it really all there... look harder... look
deeper, think 'infinite'.
Love ya and stay well.
Jed.
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