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#Post#: 41159--------------------------------------------------
Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my gur
u recommendations....
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 27, 2020, 12:55 pm
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Dear Forum Member:
I recently said that my 'go-to' guys were Nis, Ramana and UG
Krishnamurti, but that has been bugging me a bit... and seeing
how few things bug me, I found myself lying in bed wide awake
wondering what that was all about. I gave up on sleep and
grabbed my computer.
Over the years I have been asked a number of times as to who to
recommend as a teacher. At various times I have mentioned a
modest and number of people who I felt has something to offer.
On one hand, of course, they all have something to offer and
what you get is dependent on what you 'think' you need and the
stage that a 'teacher' is at, plus a little chemistry also
helps.
I would like to be able to say I studied them all, but of course
that's not possible. I have taken what I could from those who I
felt had what I needed and that might assist me to move on. I
have settle down somewhat in what might be called 'old age',
although I certainly don't feel old in any way, and I do feel
some wisdom has landed upon me over the years. My approach to
teaching and students continues to morph... while the reality of
Truth remains unchanged.
When asked, I am not inclined to say that this one or that one
is NOT a go-to guy/gal, although I recently implied it on a post
about one fellow who I have a pretty strong gut feeling about.
But the thing that was getting to me tonight was UGK. Something
remained unfinished.
There are undoubtedly steps to what I have called T/R. One
fairly obvious one is the experience of no-self.. the
realization of the fictional nature of the thought constructed
thingy that one considers to be him or her... AKA, the
personality. It's a very real and, in my experience and
observations, requisite step. The confusion arises when one
considers that experience to be T/R. Just the basic languaging
when someone calls it an 'experience' is a red light to me
because T/R is not an 'experience', it's a very unique form or
knowingness (realization). You don't 'experience' it, you just
know it at a cellular level. It arises to you as an obvious and
unquestionable reality.
UGK was a charming human who spoke eloquently and convincingly.
I would very much like to have met him. He was an excellent
communicator and taught the steps to where he got in a lucid
way, i.e., a great teacher up to that point, the point of
no-self, I would not hesitate to recommend him to students. But,
he stopped there and IMHO failed to push through the last
boundary and thus into a full blown Truth Realization. His
'stopping' is quite evident when one listens to him. He pretty
much says he found no-self and then stopped searching.
Let me back up. One might compare 'unlearning' with 'learning'
in that both involves 'steps'. Steps can occur quickly or then
can be so darn slow they are like my childhood attempts to learn
the piano. That was frustrating for ALL parties. However, and
this is an important point, 'unlearning' the personality is not
the final goal, it is just a step. one step.
There is certainly much to be learned from UGK and I have no
pause in recommending him... with the caveat that, as with all
teachers, there is a point that one leaves them and goes out on
their own... or more accurately leaves with the nothing they
have received and revealed.
So, in an effort to get back to sleep I will place my
recommendations in this order; start with UG, move on to Nis and
then, if you feel inclined, on to Ramana. I will stick with this
recommendation at least until I wake up tomorrow morning. If, at
any time, you feel I might be able to unstick you, or better
yet, push you off a cliff... don't hesitate to ask me. I will do
my best.
Much love and stay well.
Jed....over and out.
#Post#: 41161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: Chuck Date: April 27, 2020, 2:09 pm
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I recently ran into an apt description of what you're talking
about with UGK from Stephen Wolinsky (who is, BTW, a follower of
Nisargadatta).
Wolinsky calls it the no-self self, or no-identity identity. The
state of being fixed in the no-self. A very subtle form of
identity for sure.
Speaking of meeting with UG, a few years ago I ran across this
video of him with a young Byron Katie. I think she is the real
deal (and know you do too). She has an amazing way of connecting
with her student's perspectives but without attachment, in order
to help them turn their suffering around.
HTML https://youtu.be/DUh9UE4WGZM
Many of the YT comments on this video bash BK (must be UG
fanboys), but you can see how attached UG is to his no-self
perspective. UG clearly doesn't understand or try to see any
another. IMHO a being without specific attachment is free to see
the perspective of -- but not necessarily attach to -- any other
perspective.
Just another subtle ego trap, right? Even the I AM and the
no-self are appearances that can be confused for Truth.
Enjoy :)
#Post#: 41163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: Jon Osterman Date: April 27, 2020, 3:39 pm
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My introduction to all of this T/R stuff was UG Krishnamurti. At
first I absolutely hated the guy....but something kept nagging
at me to watch and read more of his material. It took me about
2-3 years to fully digest what it was the man was actually
doing. I've made good friends with several people who were very
close to UG and have heard tons of great stories about him not
found elsewhere. Honestly, his story is one of the most bizarre
and intriguing stories I've ever heard. After UG there was no
need to look for anyone or anything else. Game over.
#Post#: 41165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: abranpaso Date: April 27, 2020, 10:07 pm
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UGK was an anti-teacher teacher, an anti-guru guru.
He emphasize and over emphasize that he had nothing to teach.
He really hated all gurus, saints, sages, teachers and saviors.
He said about Jesus and Buddha that they decived themselves and
decives others,
without any doubt he would say that to all modern teachers,
including you Mr. Jed.
He was like George Carlin but 10 times worst.
He hated thought and all his creations.
But he was the only teacher I knew for almost 15 years, I learn
very well from him the first step to enlightenment: Erase every
idea and belif that your society has put in you.
I agree with you, his teaching stops there.
Then I find you, and you teach me something much better: The
word FURTHER, that to me, means that I must never belive that I
have reach my destination, always there is something further.
Thank you
#Post#: 41166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: pretheesh Date: April 27, 2020, 10:18 pm
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Perhaps it's fine to stop with no-self and just live out the
rest of life 😉. Many people say they are the true
awareness behind everything but did not even have no-self
realization, but found a new higher self to get identified for
safety.
#Post#: 41167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: guest1907 Date: April 27, 2020, 11:52 pm
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Sounds like fatigue, but what about recommending one single
teacher?
#Post#: 41168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: steph Date: April 28, 2020, 1:05 am
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Krishnamurti’s interviews with Dr. Allen Anderson was the first
time I heard him. I did find his awareness of life, or the lack
thereof, around him to be somewhat stopping at dead ends.
Especially when he talks about fear. He couldn’t really answer
why it seemed to be a fundamental driving force of human nature,
and yet knowing how much unnecessary destruction of T/R it
causes: like an anvil.
Who is nis?
And what do you think of this ukg quote: “If you begin to
understand what you are without trying to change it, then what
you are undergoes a transformation.”
How could you know what you are, when it’s impossible to ever
truly know what you are; and even if you did know what you are,
it wouldn’t really be what you are. And then what? Maybe that’s
where people stop.
#Post#: 41169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 28, 2020, 3:09 am
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Delightful to hear from all of you, and I just slept about 12
hours which was great.
I appreciate your thoughts, non-thoughts, observations and the
like. One challenge with just saying turn to one specific
teacher goes like this. A newby to whatever we are doing here
asks 'Just give me one guy' and if you gave him my first choice,
Nis, then there is a good chance your friend would not be
interested. Nis is amazing but certainly not for beginners and
in my beginning days, I didn't know how to hear or take him. He
would have promptly kick me out of his loft for asking stupid
questions. It took me a number of years before I grasped what he
was saying. Once that happened it was a whole different ride.
As a beginner, you have to look around on you own at many
teachers. You might think you are wasting your time, and
certainly some will be wasted, but a great side effect is you
will become more and more selective as your NABS meter improves.
This journey takes great patience and discernment. The only test
that I apply is 'does it work' but I should be clear. It doesn't
matter what works for others, it's 'does it work for you?'.
Never forget that anyone and anything can be your teacher when
you are available, open, ripe and ready. I can't emphasize that
too much.
Love ya all and stay well.
Jed.
BTW: Nis is Nisagardatta and NABS is 'new age bull s h i t).
#Post#: 41172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: Smiling Date: April 28, 2020, 3:52 am
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[quote author=Jed McKenna link=topic=1942.msg41159#msg41159
date=1588010137]
If, at any time, you feel I might be able to unstick you, or
better yet, push you off a cliff... don't hesitate to ask me. I
will do my best.
[/quote]
Hi, Jed.
Tears ran into my eyes as I was reading the above passage. I
don't know why. Maybe it's a calling from Truth. I still haven't
received your reply of my email. But that is not important
anymore. I realized those questions were merely distractions,
and it also made me see how attached I was to your attention and
affirmation. Well, let me be. I want to write you another email
but still drag about it. I feel very tried. Not tired of you. My
body is going through some process, some swollenness and
sourness and nausea for unknown reason. I will write an email to
you sooner or later, I think.
All the best to you.
Smiling.
通过我的 V1831A 上的
Tapatalk发言
#Post#: 41173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Late at night and something churning in me.... it's about my
guru recommendations....
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 28, 2020, 4:12 am
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Hi Dear:
Don't have any idea what happened to your email. I get lot's of
mail and it may just have slipped into some crevasse. Try
writing again when you feel up to it. Hope you are better soon.
Love ya, Jed
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