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#Post#: 40200--------------------------------------------------
the gateless gate
By: Traveller Date: March 7, 2020, 7:26 pm
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Hey
I'm passing through the gateless gate, i just wanted to know if
its called that because of this statement
"all things known are actually not known"
I watched your video on it, in my best words i would say neither
the finger nor the moon is. And neither does silence grasp the
negation of a negation.
I also wanted to say thanks, the biggest culprits were "I" ,
"thought" , "understanding" , "images" ,
secondly i wanted to ask, do i just keep going down the path of
destroying "mind"? i've gathered that there is no method, nor
effort, nor even seeking. However, it feels like the gates do
close with effort and surrendering mind as the seeking.
#Post#: 40204--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Jed McKenna Date: March 8, 2020, 3:50 am
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First of all, never seek to destroy anything... understand
anything deeply enough and it will disappear.
Love ya, Jed
#Post#: 40206--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Traveller Date: March 8, 2020, 5:42 am
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In a few words, nevermind dualistic notions, but all notions
themselves have been seen to be "illusory" or purely imaginary
smoke. the "world/ anything" exists because i imagine it to be
so, through thought patterns of understanding.
To give a few examples
Now exists because of the "psychological self"
Time exists because there are directional vectors i.e up, down,
left or right etc..
World exists because of the image of "a world" placed over now
objects exists because i claim to know that there are other
objects to contrast against and i "supposedly" know them
seekers exists because of the idea that there is something to
know
perception exists because of the words , "these are my
perception" and objectifying thingness - "these are perceptions"
emotions and feelings exists because i claim they are distinct
and so forth... i'm sure i have a few of those wrong.
To finalise my understanding stops here, all arises due to mind
and all fades when the 2nd mind stops, the "identification of
objects-mind"
all is seen to be ... groundless..
i'm not sure what to do next, i understand meditation is not
even meditating, its just finding that your experience is
nothing. that was what i was planning. however, i thought i'd
ask just to see how to navigate a wall-less maze
thanks
#Post#: 40210--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Jed McKenna Date: March 8, 2020, 10:54 pm
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Not sure I can assist you in 'navigating' as you are in the
middle of it and my my. sense is you are doing just fine.
Love ya, Jed
#Post#: 40212--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Traveller Date: March 9, 2020, 6:08 am
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I just realised that i was infering to a state of samadhi and in
your truth video, you said its further than that, which i agree.
in our "my my", would you say enlightenment is behind the action
of practice itself? getting behind the seeker, rather than in
the seekers point of view. This is what i'm struggling with. the
practice can not lead anywhere, but if i do this. I always feel
like i'm in two places at once.
How did you break this ?
I always feel like i'm in two places at once and then my
intentions take me in two different directions.
#Post#: 40214--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Rog Date: March 9, 2020, 6:43 pm
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I think that's a keeper all on its own... 😮
[quote author=Jed McKenna link=topic=1885.msg40204#msg40204
date=1583657436]
First of all, never seek to destroy anything... understand
anything deeply enough and it will disappear.
Love ya, Jed
[/quote]
#Post#: 40215--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Traveller Date: March 9, 2020, 9:09 pm
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I started laughing at the whole journey, all this searching and
confusion and it was simply a matter of saying it is not an "i"
that i think... BUT that I which i am. which further negates
itself and therefore the simpliest statement is That I am. As a
need to objectively say to that which can not be pointed to, but
what one can know for themselves. it also gave me clarity into
why you always mention thoughts and choosing better ones, in the
current present moment.
Even if i sit in silent meditation, i will end up trying to make
my mind silent forever and its clear that people don't do this
because they would have to let them go whilst functioning.
the gateless gate- "without begginning or end"
Tell me, am i giving up or saving an endless journey?... forget
the question made in the previous post
Tell me, did you break space and time ?
#Post#: 40217--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Jed McKenna Date: March 10, 2020, 3:35 am
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Hi there and thanks for sharing.
Regarding breaking time and space, I realized, via a
contemplation I call collapsing Time and Space, that there was
no such thing as a past or a future, it's not that I cancelled
it, denied it, i actually brought time together, brought the
future (apparent future) and the past (apparent past) and in
doing so, it just sorta 'dawned' on me, neither exist in Truth,
only in the dream do they appear. It's very much beyond
explaining but quite within experiencing. It's also not
something that I use to direct all my days in this dream, it was
a one time ahah experience and that was, at least for me, all
that was called for. This body, which has nothing to do with the
real 'Me', does a little, (very little) thinking and planning.
But I will always know at a deeper level that, no time means no
space also. Space needs time to arise within, and time needs
space to occur within. As I said, words really fail but
experience trumps all words.
Take care, Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 40218--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Traveller Date: March 10, 2020, 4:41 am
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it has hit me, that truth is what i am and it can't be
otherwise, it has nothing to do with anything. All you get is
the truth.
I am it
I am not it
I am and I am not it
it depends on who's point of view you take
But the whole question and answer around truth is mute. it can
not be grasped as an object, but you can become it and yet you
can not become it because you are already it. It always ends as
a continuing strangeloop when explained with words.
Even actions in real life, it doesn't matter if i experience the
most non-dual experience. it is simply just a non-dual
experience, it arises because of the present moment and thinking
of a now, when there is only mute language. It is you literally.
But you still must become you because you are not it yet and
there is nothing you can do to get there, yet you must leap.
So my q is why do you teach it? not that i'm not starting to
become grateful for the saying no belief is true.
spiritual enlightenment... the damnest thing.
#Post#: 40222--------------------------------------------------
Re: the gateless gate
By: Jed McKenna Date: March 11, 2020, 3:23 am
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There are only two answers for ALL why questions:
1.) because
2.) seemed like a good thing to do at the time.
Of coure, the brighter ones will realize that that reduces to
only one answer: "Because it seemed like a good idea at the
time''.
That is all you ever need to know about how to respond to why
questions. Every other answer you get will be totall made up
B.S.
I trust that helps, and you can just make up the answer you
want.
Love ya, Jed
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