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#Post#: 39769--------------------------------------------------
Jed on Society
By: anthropisces Date: December 3, 2019, 12:59 pm
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Hi Jed,
You have extensively discussed ego. I would like to hear from
you in maybe a similar fashion on society. What is society? What
is it not? Why is it?
Best regards
Tom
#Post#: 39774--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 4, 2019, 1:02 am
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Dear AP:
That's a good question, and it doesn't take much probing to see
the similarities. Draw a line down the middle of a page put the
qualities of ego on one side and the qualities of society on the
other. Even though there are many different societies, and
different facets to egos, there are fundamental similarities,
e.g., they all lie about who and what they really are (a
fiction), they all defend their lies (sometimes to the death)
and once a person realizes their true nature, that ''person'' is
not long a ''person''... and as for an ''enlightened''
society... well... there are certainly some societies that would
like you to ''think'' they are enlightened.. but...
Society, being simply a collection of ego driven dreamt human
characters, could only come up with a society that reflects all
those qualities. I have lived is a number of cultures and
certainly think that some are ''more'' enlightened (whatever
that means) and some less.
The reason for this goings-on is beyond me. It's just an
appearance in a dream anyways, and the whole think is far, far
less important that the apparent participants would have you
think. There really is no reason for anything, ergo, ''why?" is
a rather pointless interrogatory, try ''how'' and you will get
higher quality data and along with that, the possibility of
changing things.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 39778--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: anthropisces Date: December 4, 2019, 12:45 pm
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Twain's Mysterious Stranger depicts the society as a witch
hunting organization.
I'm playing with the model of society as a (highly effective)
organized crime family. It defends its turf, is absolutely
hierarchical, extracts protection money, is a pyramid scheme
where nepotism and cronyism dominate, and deals harshly with
heretics (who would change the structure).
Societies arrange themselves as crime families because crime is
always profitable (because the overhead is so low).
I used to ask myself how groups with ostensibly different sets
of rules could all be successful. How could one fundamentalist
group achieve a powerful, materially-wealthy society while
simultaneously, a different fundamentalist group, (seemingly
diametrically opposed in terms of their stated mission), exists
that is also powerful and wealthy? An explanation is that in
spite of outward appearance each is adhering to the basic
structure of organized crime.
It might perplex someone how "fundamentalist" religious
organizations could be successful at all. The word
fundamentalist is often used to designate a backward, outlook,
which implies that it is less effective, less well-equipped and
with no long term potential. But in fact fundamentalist
organizations, no matter what their stated beliefs are, have a
leg-up on other crime families because the guidelines for
behavior are less ambiguous. Further, all societies are
fundamentalist at their core.
This is all the explanation from within the dream.
The society is a prominent image on the wall in Plato's cave. To
walk within it without becoming mired in it is all but
impossible. Its tendrils are very clingy.
#Post#: 39780--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 4, 2019, 11:40 pm
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Fundamentalists are those who have lost the ability to laugh at
themselves... IMHO.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 39789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: anthropisces Date: December 6, 2019, 11:09 am
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And-thanks for commenting on society.
"Society, being simply a collection of ego driven dreamt human
characters, could only come up with a society that reflects all
those qualities."
Daniel Quinn offered a fascinating explanation for the birth of
civilization as we know it, in terms of the first three chapters
of Genesis in the bible, in the 1992 book "Ishmael". Those first
parts of Genesis are more interesting to explore after reading
Ishmael. Genesis seems to have been written by nomadic herders,
who were watching their way of life, in which they just lived
and were simply provided for-replaced by the "doing" of ego.
This egoic doing being magnified by the society, which was born
and made possible through grain agriculture.
Pulling thread
#Post#: 39791--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 6, 2019, 10:32 pm
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Thanks for sharing, now... how does that apply to your, your
ego, your experiences, your ''spiritual'' goals.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 39799--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: anthropisces Date: December 8, 2019, 5:26 pm
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It applies to this ego in that both it and the society lie about
who and what they really are (a fiction).
It applies to this ego in that both it and the society defend
their lies (to the death)
This ego is among a collection of ego-dreamt human characters,
that make up a society that reflects those qualities.
Any spiritual goals arise through this ego.
#Post#: 39802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 9, 2019, 3:08 am
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Excellent Grasshopper... excellent.
Love ya, Jed
#Post#: 39811--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: anthropisces Date: December 9, 2019, 1:31 pm
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The society can seem like a grotesque part of the "grotesque
dream" (as the dream-state is described by Satan in Twain's
Mysterious Stranger). If one is waking up and going back to
sleep within the dream state, then dealings with the society can
be dizzying.
It is well known that the highest spiritual plane one could
experience is "never stub another toe", but that is of course
reserved for the angels.
In the absence of an angel; what does a mortal like Jed McKenna
or or a Jesus does when colliding with something like a pissed
off Roman empire society? Is there suffering or just
experiencing? Does Jed watch, perhaps wincing when issued a
traffic citation, yet without suffering?
Then again these questions imply a doing. They might easily be
rephrased as "what would Jesus do?" or "what does Jed McKenna
do?" And since all doing is egoic, of what value are these
questions? They arise from the fickle, ego and if it were so
indulged it would continue to ask, and ask, as if the next
answer were going to "get it somewhere", but it would instantly
be unsatisfied with that answer and instead insist that the
answer to the next question is what is required.
a suitable Jesus quote to this present discussion might be
"do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time
you will be given what to say"
Non-doing
#Post#: 39813--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed on Society
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 9, 2019, 9:21 pm
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It's not the doing that you should be concerned about, who cares
if Jesus did this, Buddha did that, I do this or you do that?
Who cares? My experiences and contentions are that it is far
more productive to ask yourself what these people undid, it's
the undoing that leads to freedom. Most of the classical texts
on the subject where written by observers, devotees, hangers-on
and interpreters... and that might explain the emphasis on
doing. They observed what particular ''one'' did, i.e., actions,
the could not observe the non-actions or internal actions.
What could you undo in this very moment? I don't know but might
suggest you let go of thinking that any answer lies ''out
there''. If you feel inclined to behave in a saintly manner,
then by all means do. No one could argue that our dreamt world
couldn't do with a little more saintlyness... BUT, don't think
that your godly behavior holds geniune deep answers to that most
important question, ''Who/what am I?''. You are not your
behaviour and behaving like a saint won't make you one. Any
behavior that is ego driving is highly unlikely to produce any
kind of a saintly result. Do you have any idea what it means to
be truly saintly? To be saintly means that you are not
un-saintly, which also means you are behaving from the
perspective of duality. I don't have a clue what it would be
like to be saintly, so I don't try.
Love ya (in a saintly sorta way) Jed.
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