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       #Post#: 36706--------------------------------------------------
       More from Lazarus - Consciousness Isn't Personal
   DIR By: Jed McKenna
       Date: December 26, 2018, 11:06 pm
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       Here's tonight's Lazy Rant.  This one wasn't written with an
       audience in mind, so it's not quite as user friendly. It's just
       me writing to try to give language to what I think Nis is
       saying.  It could become something more at some point.  Feel
       free to read or not to!
       ---
       As a Westerner and a scientist and a sort of Occam's
       materialist, I can look at the brain and human development
       objectively, and I can tell a story about how the self comes
       into being. From this perspective, consciousness seems to be a
       byproduct of a complex neural network and self-consciousness an
       overlay of culture into that biological matrix. Even here,
       however, we have to admit that some mysteries remain, and that
       no scientist yet really understands how consciousness springs
       from matter. That leads us back in to the subjective to seek
       additional data.  From the subjective viewpoint, I can concede
       that some evidence may exist in support of an explanation that
       our current level of material understanding is insufficient for.
       For instance, when you think back, can you remember the moment
       you started? Most people would say no. At some point, as you
       reach back, memory fades or blurs into a fog, a sort of memory
       horizon beyond which you can't see.  For the few who would claim
       to remember their birth or the womb, I think they're just
       fantasizing. Nothing wrong with that, but even so, it would be
       impossible for them to remember a moment when something
       coalesced from nothing. Whenever that could have been, whatever
       was storing the memory of that moment couldn't have had the
       cognitive infrastructure to select which elements of the
       experience to record or to construct a narrative frame in which
       to record them. Regardless, most of us would say that there is
       no memory of a beginning. It is as if you have always existed.
       Your inability to remember when you began may be an accurate
       reflection of reality.  You may not have ever begun. Your
       consciousness may have no beginning. If this is true, calling it
       "your" consciousness may be misleading.  What you are could be
       thought of as consciousness that has been accessed by your brain
       and your body at some point in your biological and cultural
       development. That was a temporal event. It required a level of
       maturity that occurred at some vaguely identifiable moment in
       your body's history. From there, a tangle of affects, drives,
       and neuro-motivational feedback loops interfaced with the
       familial and cultural features of your social environment to
       teach you a language and structure you an ego with which to
       navigate your world. You, as a cultural-biological being with a
       developmental history, managed to make contact with the
       non-temporal consciousness without which you could never know
       you were having experiences, could never have formed an ego in
       the first place.
       So there are two levels of youness in this model. Most of us,
       most of the time, identify with the egoic self, attached as it
       is to the arbitrary accumulation of memories that distinguish
       you from other people who have their own random knot of memories
       to attach to. But that ego, the one who gives meaning to those
       memories, could not exist but for the matrix of consciousness
       that brought it to life. That consciousness, which isn't
       precisely yours, and which seems to have begun before your body
       was born, is also you. It's the other level of youness.
       This consciousness is not the same as witnessing awareness.
       Learning to identify with the witness is a valuable step in
       ceasing to identify with the body, emotions, and thoughts. All
       these transient phenomena can be witnessed with equanimity by
       witnessing awareness.  But even the witness can be observed
       doing its thing from a higher perspective, from that of
       consciousness itself. Identifying with the witness expands your
       scope, but only to a wider personal scope. Consciousness,
       because it isn't "yours", isn't personal. It's a wider scope by
       far than that of the witness.
       Consciousness isn't personal, but it is you. You're made of it.
       There is no you separate from it. But whatever this mysterious
       medium of consciousness is doesn't end at the semi-permeable
       edges of your personal self.  It includes that self and it
       includes everything that self could ever perceive or experience.
       So this second, transpersonal level of youness doesn't seem
       like "you" at all, at least not from any viewpoint inside the
       egoic self. It seems like everything. But this seeming is
       correct. It is everything. You are everything.
       Self level one is the personal self - body, memories, ego,
       witness, time-bound perspective, and vague boundaries
       distinguishing itself from other selves. Self level two is the
       consciousness that preceded your individuality, that permeates
       every aspect of your individuality, and that transcends
       experience, including all things.
       Some people manage to successfully navigate the maze of the ego.
       They find the exit and emerge with a comprehensive realization
       that what they are is not the maze but the eternal infinite
       consciousness within which the finite maze arose. We variously
       call these folks enlightened or awakened. Many of them teach
       that this second level is more real than the first. What they
       mean is that from the perspective of the second level, the first
       level is just a trance, or a dream, or a cluster of relatively
       ignorant beliefs. Identifying with your developed adult
       personality is no different than identifying with the unformed
       blob of protoplasm you were as a newborn baby. Nether one is
       what "you" "really" are. Both were just bio-cultural bridges
       linking your time-bound body self with something you've always
       been and will always be, even as everything time-bound about you
       changes and dies.
       Eternal-consciousness you isn't actually more real than ego you.
       In the same sense, daytime-waking you isn't more real than
       sleeping-dreamtime you, and adult-developed you isn't more real
       than infant-undeveloped you.  Each reality makes sense on its
       own terms from within its own frame. But each frame is subsumed
       within a larger one. Larger frames can see the smaller frames
       within them and so can comment on the scope of the reality
       they're playing out. And the frame of eternal-consciousness, or
       so I've been told, is the ultimate frame. It's the background
       behind all frames. So its got the ultimate privileged
       perspective from which to view the finite games and dream-like
       realities of all little ego self frames. And from that
       perspective, eternal consciousness is the only game going and
       the only thing that matters, though, of course, it's not a thing
       at all.  It's the "real" you because its the only you that
       matters.
       #Post#: 36708--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1055
       Date: December 27, 2018, 4:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you, this post was really great for contemplating the "I
       am" feeling. Almost felt like reading meditation at some point.
       Cheers
       #Post#: 36709--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1170
       Date: December 27, 2018, 6:15 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Was reading Nis and found something interesting there...
       "Ultimately even the observer you are not. You are the Ultimate
       potentiality of which the all-embracing consciousness is the
       manifestation and expression"
       I didnt realize this yet...
       #Post#: 36713--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1293
       Date: December 27, 2018, 8:03 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Jed please keep it to the 200 word limit in the interest of
       time.
       Ps. I just love knowing that I am "the Ultimate potentiality of
       which the all-embracing consciousness is the manifestation and
       expression." But then the wife asks me to go to work and make
       money so our family can have food and shelter...Ugh!! The nerve
       of some people ::)
       #Post#: 36714--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1170
       Date: December 27, 2018, 8:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I used to have a job and responsabilities before realization
       too, but now everything is taken care of by the Universe... If
       the Universe gives me a job and a wife, then good...
       Otherwise... Ill just keep doing what I do at the moment
       Yes, I know, It all sounds like crazy metaphysical talk... But
       It is my experience
       #Post#: 36715--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1293
       Date: December 27, 2018, 9:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       In terms of realization and out of respect for where you
       currently are, I'll point out that there is a major difference
       between what I thought was realization and the Realization. One
       involves mystical and enchanted stories that placed me in a
       position of being the ultimate thing for which all this is
       contained while simultaneously waiting for the universe to
       kindly provide (scratches head) but never mind that making any
       sense because it's just what sounded  better at the time.
       Growing up and settling in. Who the fuck wants that? Getting
       real? Without a head full of shit to fall back on? The truth is
       that the universe doesn't provide you anything but a slow death.
       You have an opportunity to grow up and get on with it and
       possibly make some improvements before that or you stay in never
       never land never to grow older or having to face the reality of
       your situation. The universe would unprovide me a wife and
       family too if that's how I went about my business. But I got
       real. Took a good HONEST look at things. It's not always as cool
       as envisioning my supreme enlightened being status of the days
       past but it's real and authentic and I do what needs to be done
       without hesistation because it's simple after you clear your
       head of all the shit and stop relying on the guru to direct your
       next step. But that's just my experience.
       #Post#: 36716--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1170
       Date: December 27, 2018, 9:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       No...
       "My" "enlightenment" is "supreme" and "complete". It is
       Absolute, not relative, does not obey time, space and all that
       good stuff you can find in Maya's Land
       The big difference between "you" and "me" is that I speak from
       Ultimate Reality, and you speak from conventional , relative
       reality
       You can jump into Ultimate Reality too, nothing special in doing
       this... But I dont think you are ready for It now
       #Post#: 36717--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1293
       Date: December 27, 2018, 9:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Its all good. You said it best yourself in the other thread. "No
       one wants enlightenment." This is true. Its about as pleasant as
       the day you found out there was no Santa Clause. Most people
       dont want Truth Realization. They want to stay in their warm and
       cozy worlds of make believe and I cant blame them. About the
       only benefit to taking this thing all the way is that you get
       more clear. Life becomes simpler when you accept the reality.
       Experience gets more streamlined because you attend to the tasks
       at hand rather than getting lost in your mental masturbation
       sessions. Its not always pleasant but its direct and I wouldnt
       have it any other way. Quite literally.
       #Post#: 36719--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1293
       Date: December 27, 2018, 9:57 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Done.
       #Post#: 36720--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Jed Rant: More from Lazy
   DIR By: guest1170
       Date: December 27, 2018, 10:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I'm happy you are content with the level of realization you are
       in... If It works for you, by all means stay there
       I never "believed" in enlightenment... I literally had no choice
       in the matter at all. An energy forced me to do inquiry and If I
       didnt do It I would start suffering a LOT... So I didnt do It
       because I wanted to be an "enlightened man"... It was either
       enlightenment or suicide for me, and I didnt have the courage to
       do the latter
       Then the enlightenment "event" fell over my head like a nuclear
       bomb and destroyed everything... Time, space, self, misery,
       memory, family, "life"... I was "born" into a completely new
       reality...and the statement "enlightenment is a myth" became
       laughble to me... Thats all
       I am satisfied
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