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#Post#: 33427--------------------------------------------------
What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: KenBrace Date: December 27, 2017, 10:34 am
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This is something that I wonder about frequently. Reincarnation
is the idea that a particular conscious observer goes
unconscious at the moment of death (like going to sleep) and
then wakes up again as a baby being born. So one dream dies and
a whole new one begins. However, this view seems to imply that
there is an observer separate from the observation that can
migrate from body to body. From a non-dual perspective, the real
you is the entire universe. So when a new baby is born, that is
the universe starting a new dream. That is you starting a new
dream. So under this view, the idea of reincarnation is
nonsensical. There is nothing to be reincarnated. There are just
experiences happening, and no entities traveling through time to
observe them.
Is this an accurate way to look at the situation though? I go to
sleep at night and then suddenly wake up in the morning. The
brain that I woke up with is different than the one I went to
sleep with. Now let's suppose that during my sleep, large
sections of the brain were replaced with surgery. I would still
wake up, but would have a much different experience. I could
theoretically swap out more and more parts and sections of the
brain until I was experiencing a different mind altogether. It
still appears to be the same "observer" though. I went to sleep
and then woke up with a completely new self to experience. So as
an analogy, let's say I am watching a film. During the movie, I
close my eyes for 30 seconds and then open them again. There
would be a gap in my experience of the story but I would still
be able to follow along and catch up mentally since I remember
all that I had watched before. That is like sleeping and waking.
Now let's say I close my eyes again for 30 seconds. When I open
them, a completely different movie altogether has started
playing. I can imagine something similar happening when I die.
This movie stops and then a new one begins without any memory of
the previous one. It seems to make sense that this differs from
someone else being born.
The universe appears to be composed of separate streams of
consciousness. The contents are always changing but there seems
to be a point of awareness behind it all. Each "entity" or
"observer" could be said to be a point of awareness or void from
which all experience grows. But the experiences themselves are
not "you" because they are always changing. You can't pinpoint a
fixed "I" in the ever-changing field of experience. What does
seem to be fixed is the experiential center behind it all. The
ground from which all experience grows. Now it seems to me that
are many, many of these centers. Right now there is a point of
awareness that is experiencing unbelievable pain and suffering
right now, yet it has no effect on this field of experience. So
if all the contents of this center are erased and then filled
with a new experience stream, then that seems to me to be
different than a new baby being born somewhere else.
Any thoughts on death and reincarnation? Is the idea of rebirth
based entirely on an illusion or is it a valid possibility?
#Post#: 33428--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 27, 2017, 10:45 am
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Thank you for sharing that story.
Reincarnation, as currently held to be in new-age teachings is
just plain silly. It doesn't exist. However, the sense of ''I
am'' is the same thingy in every human in the dream. It is
continuous through all human appearances, but it is not
reincarnation as folks think it is, and that of course, (if your
experiences is similar to mine) negates any possibility of karma
as well.
Dwelling on the topic is a waste of time and energy. Find out
your True Nature and you won't be inclined to such mental
machinations. Those topic are total distractions.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 33431--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: KenBrace Date: December 27, 2017, 2:27 pm
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[quote author=Jed McKenna link=topic=1540.msg33428#msg33428
date=1514393107]
Thank you for sharing that story.
Reincarnation, as currently held to be in new-age teachings is
just plain silly. It doesn't exist. However, the sense of ''I
am'' is the same thingy in every human in the dream. It is
continuous through all human appearances, but it is not
reincarnation as folks think it is, and that of course, (if your
experiences is similar to mine) negates any possibility of karma
as well.
[/quote]
The idea of karma as a cosmic justice system is absurd but my
understanding is that it is simply the action of the universe.
If there's no separation between you and your environment then
you could say that your entire existence is your own
karma/doing/action (who else's would it be if there's no one
other than you). So even if the current experience is
undesirable, it actually is desired by the individual since they
couldn't experience what they desire without it. Does this ring
true in your view?
[quote author=Jed McKenna link=topic=1540.msg33428#msg33428
date=1514393107]
Dwelling on the topic is a waste of time and energy. Find out
your True Nature and you won't be inclined to such mental
machinations. Those topic are total distractions.
Love ya, Jed.
[/quote]
What are your own thoughts on death?
What would you think if you found a way to build a vehicle for
consciousness after death?
#Post#: 33433--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: Jed McKenna Date: December 27, 2017, 9:26 pm
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How can what was never born... die? I don't think about much and
certainly not death. I couldn't care less about it.
The ''I am'' is already such a vehicle, no need to build
anything.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 37374--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: davidb Date: February 21, 2019, 11:16 am
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Jed,
I was just re-listening to Damndest and noticed that you mention
past-lives in several occasions in sort of a matter of fact
manner. From my own investigations, reincarnation in the
typical New Age linear lifetimes sense doesn't exist... more
like form/illusion manifesting continually and consciousness
inhabiting it, or something along those lines... don't know
don't care too much.
But it brought up the question for me: once one is awakened as
you are - abiding nondual awareness, is it forever? You mention
a head wound being able to "undo" it. How could something as
form-bound as a brain trauma undo something so beyond the realm
of the dream?
Before you go say "find out for yourself", I just want to say
I'm choosing not to. Awake is no better than asleep, and I'm
not in the mood to rip the skin off my bones and such. Just
curious about your perspective. I'm 46, and if abiding nondual
awareness only lasts for the duration of this "seeming"
lifetime, it doesn't sound worth it. Plus, I'm kinda a clutz
and odds are I'd receive a head injury. :D
#Post#: 37685--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 1, 2019, 6:44 am
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If you are choosing to not wake up, and you say you know that
awake is no better than asleep, and your not in the mood to rip
the skin off your bones and such.... then why are you asking? It
seems to me that this whole venture is not really of any
interest to you. I suggest you find something that really grabs
your interest and throw yourself into it.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 37696--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: guest1765 Date: April 1, 2019, 10:31 am
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"You mention a head wound being able to "undo" it. How could
something as form-bound as a brain trauma undo something so
beyond the realm of the dream?"
This grabbed my attention because I've wondered about the impact
of a traumatic brain injury I had several years ago. In addition
to the typical cognitive problems ( which have improved over
time), it seems harder to pick up on energetic 'signals' or
guidance that I've relied on for decades; like a connection of
sorts has been blunted.
Would you be willing to speak more about this Jed?
#Post#: 37705--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 1, 2019, 11:33 pm
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Hi PJ:
That's a heck of a question. There are an immense number of
variables. I'm experiencing a brain injury trying to think about
it. Perhaps we should Skype it... but still no guarantees of a
meaningful answer.
Love ya, Jed
#Post#: 37718--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: guest1765 Date: April 2, 2019, 10:11 am
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Could we do that?
#Post#: 37735--------------------------------------------------
Re: What reincarnates if there is no self?
By: Jed McKenna Date: April 3, 2019, 12:04 am
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I usually only Skype students who have completed the series
because we then have a shared language and they know the
contemplations, but we can talk a little if you like. Email we
so we can set up a time, perhaps this weekend.
Take care,
Love ya, Jed.
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