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#Post#: 28590--------------------------------------------------
Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: May 11, 2017, 12:03 am
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Dear reader, lurker, members and (insert any category you see
fit):
Every now and then I get an email or post from someone asking me
why I sign off with ''Love ya''. Some seem a little offended...
like how can you say you ''love'' me when you don't even know
me. In a superficial human sense they are correct but at a
deeper level I know them better than they know themselves. Yes,
I realize that sounds arrogant ( ::) ::) ::) ) and I promise I
will stop being arrogant tomorrow.
I am not speaking of human love when I say ''love ya''. It has
nothing to do with a human being loving another person... there
is no such thing as a ''person'', that's just a concept built
upon a collection of thoughts, memories and stories. Those
stories of human love, for another, for country, for flag, etc.
are all just that, stories. Entertaining, but just stories. If
they were all added up in a pos and neg manner, I would suggest
that they have caused more human grief than happiness.
Living in your stories is a sure road to suffering for the
simple reason that they are not true. They are projections of
your past hurts and pains into a future collection of should
be's, wanna be's, might be's, I need and I don't want's. (that
was grammatically challenging. I think I flunked).
Back to human love for a moment. Can you love a person? You
might come very close. How? Simply let them be... without
projecting anything on them. Don't try to help them or hinder
them. Let them experience what they are experiencing. Stop
thinking you know a better way, that you can improve them. (how
does one improve a dream character?). Stop playing God... if for
no other reason that it is disrespectful of that ''other's''
need to experience what they are experiencing.
How many of you have gotten into a romantic relationship with
the thought...something like.. ''Gee.. he/she would be just
great, 100% perfect if I just tweak that little habit, and
perhaps help them realize this/that/whatever. Yeh, I think I can
work with them. Gosh life will be great when they realize blah,
blah, blah, blah... I sure hope the don't turn out like my last
love.''
So... let's focus on ''you''. When you fall in love what do you
want? Would you like to have someone completely and totally,
without any reservations, accept you AS YOU ARE? How would that
feel? Would that not ring of true human love? Should change be
appropriate from time to time, wouldn't that be an excellent
starting point, unconditional acceptance? On the other hand, how
does it feel to be conditionally loved.. like... I love you
if/but/when... garbage? Yes, it is garbage because it's just a
rerun of stale stories. AND they are not even your stories...
they are someone else's of how you should be ... often repeated
over a lifetime and inevitably ending up with the same old, same
old... borrring.... :P :P :P .
One last point... if you are going to try this I suggest it has
nothing to do with words. You don't tell a person anything...
actions go deeper and beingness (forgive the NABS) goes much
deeper. Pick someone in your life.. it might be a homeless
beggar you just noticed in the street, or a spouse... or
anything in between.
Decide for a period of time.. starting small, just one minute
will do, that you will unconditionally love, accept, forgive and
totally allow that person to be what they happen to be... not
what you think they are (you don't have a clue anyways) just
whatever they are. Let it go as deep as you can and as best you
can. They are what they are and they are doing the best they can
with what they have. Who are you to get in their way? It's none
of your business and IMHO it's totally arrogant and presumptive
of you to do so.
BUT WAIT JED.. what the hell are you doing? Aren't you trying to
change people? Give me a break!
??? ???
Well put... and there is a very real difference between what I
preached above (forgive me, I know not what I do) and what I
practice (I have a pretty good idea of that).
Let me make up a brief story and see if I can dig myself a hole.
:-\ :-\ :-\
A friend comes to you and says, ''I really need help with X''.
If, and I emphasize ''IF" they appear very sincere and ''IF''
they come out and ask you for help (i.e., it's not something you
are reading into their expressions) then my experience is that
you have an obligation to offer assistance. BIG CAVEAT: Don't
offer something you don't have.
So, back to you Jed... aren't you doing what you are telling
folks to not do. >:( >:( >:(
Permit me to justify and explain (yeh, sure...dig a deeper
hole).
Yes, I have assisted a good number of students, however, I have
never ''attempted'' to assist anyone who didn't sincerely ask me
for assistance. I have never put a book in anyone's hands and
said, ''Hey, you really need this''. I have never tried to do
some kind of therapy with an acquaintance who just wanted have a
coffee and share a little misery and bitching. I have only
worked closely with those who have come and asked me for
assistance of some kind.
In my experience and observations, the above can contribute to a
happier dream experience... what most folks really want. In
addition, it's certainly a good way to make the transition into
T/R a little more gentle.
As you have read this far, I consider that a plea for assistance
on some level. How about trying the above, only briefly at
first, and then share your experiences?
I wish you the best always.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 28591--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: aar24
Date: May 11, 2017, 12:37 am
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Will do, saving the space.
Edit: Just did a bit of this with my dad, who was talking to me
about very grave stuff around me getting a job and how i’m
liable to have no future if i don’t start my life soon.
What was most interesting were the pulls - the pull to put him
at ease, to assure him it’s all fine, and the pull to prove that
I really can’t solve my parents’ problem, manifest as my
catastrophic future.
Instead I just sat and mostly listened. At one point he
mentioned the guys outside wandering around with no future, then
I giggled, and he was like “don’t laugh.” And I said “well the
guys outside and the guys in the houses have the same future.”
Pulls 1, Me 0.
But yeah, it’s becoming clearer that I can’t resolve other
people’s anxieties. Even in a case like this where there’s an
apparent causal link (I fix my life → parents are happy),
there’s no immediate solution I can provide, and the pulling of
mind moves in spite of the fact that I can’t help anyone, to
cover it up and promise resolution.
#Post#: 28593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: Misha
Date: May 11, 2017, 1:42 am
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Hi Jed,
Wow, cool, I come to your forum to ask a question & while trying
to remember how to find my own thread I see this rant, and it
seems as good a place as any to ask it.
As you allude to in your rant here, other people seem to really
mostly want you--well, I'll say "me, to be clear--to join their
favorite stories about themselves. In every situation possible.
That is, I guess, Love and Life to them. I've gotten pretty
good at dancing round the edges of that...not appearing to
conflict with their stories of themselves, and also not really
participating. It does seem that as a result I come off as
pretty "oblivious"...which suits me fine.
I don't typically share much about...uh...what I no longer see.
So I am almost always masquerading as someone who sees what
isn't there. It usually isn't as hard as I thought it would be;
I mean, that is what everyone else is doing anyway, eh?! :)
Here's where the situation can be a challenge (and where my
question lies): When someone wants me to behave a different way
than I am behaving, it appears to always be because they want
something from me that they perceive/believe I am not giving.
They feel I don't appreciate them enough. Or that I think my
idea is better than their idea. Or whatever. When really--I
don't appreciate or dis-appreciate them--appreciation is not
relevant. And I don't even own my own ideas; they appear, and
sometimes they come out of my mouth or pen or keyboard, and
that's all. So in these kinds of examples, they are way off re
what they are projecting onto me, and if I can't dance away,
then I am stuck not knowing how to even interface with them (the
blank stare, egads!). There is a large irony in these
situations for me, bc the truth is it does not matter to me how
they experience me--EXCEPT that it can matter in a strategic
sense, in 3d day to day life. Do you know what I mean?
Anyway, if you have any advice about this kind of thing, I'd be
grateful to hear it. If you don't, I'll just continue to muddle
along. (Usually it all runs along just fine--though I am
actually a pretty horrible actor, it appears the spectators are
so conditioned to believe I'm not acting that it makes it pretty
easy in most ways.)
Thank you--Misha
#Post#: 28598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: Jed McKenna
Date: May 11, 2017, 3:53 am
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Sounds like you are muddling along just fine.
So.... let's see:
Friend: I really need you to blah blah blah.
You: (trying to help as best you can) Well, that doesn't sound
too difficult, but mind if ask you a question? If I do blah,
blah, blah for you, what would that give you. (you are seeking
the desired experience behind the b.s. It is the driver.)
Friend: Well, it would make me feel more (fill in the blank).
You: Yup, probably would, so let me get this straight, you want
to feel (fill in the blank). Correct? You don't really want me
to blah, blah, blah, you actually want to experience (fill in
the blank).
Friend: Well, I guess so.. hey are you trying to psychoanalyze
me?
You: What I am trying to do is find out what you really want.
When we do that (together) then I will be in a better position
to give you that specifically, and, you probably won't ask
again. It's my guess that you will actually be more happy than
if I just do blah, blah, blah. So, are you willing to find out
what you really want, cause, I'm not so sure you will get it
with blah, blah, blah. So have you ever felt (fill in the blank)
before?
Friend: Uhh... yeh once I did.
You: Mind if I ask what happened to make you feel that?
Friend: (tells a story)
You: Tell me more about that experience. Do you get what I am
doing here? It's complete and utter manipulation. However,
humans are manipulating all the time, just in rather clumsy
ways. Find that feeling and help them relive it. Be a good actor
in their movie.
You might notice a couple of things. Perhaps your friend relives
that experience and thus in the moment actually satisfies the
need. You might also, just by inquiry, released some
importances. And, there is always the possibility they will
forget what they were asking for. They might say, ''Screw you,
this isn't worth it.''. In this last case, you can be pretty
sure you have a drama queen on your hands and you were being set
up for an up set. In that case, ''Waiter, bill please''.
Play with this, it's huge fun and you may learn or even make a
contribution to your friends experience. Remember, nothing is
serious here. It's all play. Like children, humans learn best
when playing.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 28604--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: Marina
Date: May 11, 2017, 8:08 am
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Life is amazing Jed. :)
Just the other day I thought about it. And here is your message.
When I finished reading to the middle, I felt the impulse to
share my experience. And then I read:
“How about … share your experiences?”
Life is amazing Jed !! <3
So, what have I come to:
1. To help or not to help someone who doesn't ask for it ?
After many years of experience, I began to adhere strictly to
the rule:
“Never, never, never help those who don't ask.”
But recently I began to allow myself to violate this rule. What
I want to emphasize:
a) I don't give guidance. I only share my vision of something.
b) I do this extremely rarely, in exceptional cases. (I do this
only when I feel that I can't not do this. Although my mind
screams: "This is a mistake !!!" But if after that I feel
lightness, then it's right.)
c) I can't recommend to beginner to do it, because
- one need to master the basic rule “Never …” and practice it
for a long time;
- one must learn to distinguish the inner impulse from the voice
of the mind;
- I have just started to allow "exceptions" and don't have
enough experience to draw conclusions.
2. To help or not to help someone who ask for it ?
First: When a person asks for help, this doesn't mean that he
really needs it. There are many reasons, Why does he do it. (Oh
Jed, don't scold me for "Why" :-* :) )
So I find out: Is he really hungry or wants to play it?
Sometimes it happens during the first conversation.
Sometimes this becomes clear on the basis of what a person does
after a conversation.
3. How to help? The Flow
When I want to help a person, in fact I want to be a part of his
process. And then an interesting interaction arises.
It feels like "I amness comes into resonance with he isness".
But I call it simply “The Flow”.
And I never know beforehand how the conversation will go and how
it will end.
I'm not always empty enough to keep The Flow clean. It happens
that the mind creates a fog.
But sometimes it turns out well. I open my mouth and words come
out of me that never occurred to me. It's the best !
#Post#: 28605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: guest1055
Date: May 11, 2017, 8:45 am
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In my experience it can be pretty tricky to love others because
all I can do with them is to observe my own behavior patterns.
Maybe I'm just biased, because when I observe people fighting
about something very trivial just to blow off steam; or being
passive aggressive to each other, it reminds me of my periodical
indulgence of the same traits. So I often get aggravated - not
for a long time but enough to convince myself that we cannot be
really connected on the "human level", which is the only level I
know.
However, I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by a few people who
are not afraid to listen what I really think about them (I sure
as hell won't sell them your non-existence wrap, though :D) and
they can stay surprisingly cool after that. Although, Jed, can
you really give someone an advice? My (or anyone else's) advice
won't help anyone, because: a) they are free to interpret it
anyway they like; b) words don't really mean anything. For
example, when I read your advice, it seems I get some profound
meaning from it, but then a hour passes and understand that it
doesn't really help, only adds to the story. But that's all one
can do, I guess ;D
#Post#: 28609--------------------------------------------------
Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: Christonewman
Date: May 11, 2017, 1:57 pm
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Although there is awareness of beliefs, and for that matter that
everything is unknowable, the addiction to fall into these
delusions is extremely powerful. How can one be permanently
aware that it's 'not real' when it appears that the only purpose
is to create 'real'? Hope this makes a bit of sense! [emoji12]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
#Post#: 28612--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: EternalDawning
Date: May 11, 2017, 3:53 pm
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Thanks for hanging around to answer the calls and and for the
cognitive life support.
Yesterday I did it the wrong way and tried to "help" someone who
wasn't asking, a whole "spiritual" group actually. I saw what
it was about for me and then appologized genuinely, but also had
a little too much to say. It looked arrogant to some others
felt supported or amused. I just felt like a fool and also
grateful for the lessons in seeing. I don't want to do that
anymore. Some people don't want to see and my time would be
better spent playing bejeweld or suduko for Christ's sake. I
need to just have these conversations I want to have with me.
#Post#: 28613--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: jonnydas
Date: May 11, 2017, 7:28 pm
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So happy that you are here or there or wherever, Jed.
Thanks!!
#Post#: 28614--------------------------------------------------
Re: Jed Rant: More about ''Love ya''.
DIR By: DragonTree
Date: May 11, 2017, 7:41 pm
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Jed I read that big ol' post you made and it made me quite
baffled as to what we're trying to do here (Not to put words on
other peoples' fingertips).
It seems like you're listing byproducts of a state of an
unresisting mind which is of no value if you aren't there
already. I say this because of an embarassing habit I used to
have where I would mimic "alpha male behaviours" from a place of
not having them and it only gave me more grief. That being said
I'm willing to give it my best shot, if only to completely
contradict my first sentence.
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