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#Post#: 1971--------------------------------------------------
Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: September 30, 2014, 12:51 am
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Hi Jed,
I was Ahab from June 2011 forward for about 2.5 years, after
finding out about a massive betrayal (after a string of other
Big Disillusionments unrelated to that one--life paraded out a
string of them, culminating in the June 2011 one).
I hid the carnage from everyone, pretty much. Walked around
literally feeling like my torso had been sliced open and my guts
were falling out, for ages. The burn was high and hot, and I
had no idea what was going on. Kept functioning in my life,
thought I might be going crazy, was totally relieved when
someone handed me your first and second books and in the
Incorrect book saw that I was going through THAT.
Sometime about 8-9 months ago, something shifted and it felt
like the movement "further" seemed to slow way down. Now, I
still have short periods of the massive shredding feeling
within. I have short periods of feeling like my body is filling
up with air, or like INSIDE my body somehow is floating (but
it's not of course). I have times when there is a cavernous
emptiness...and I have seen how if I can just stay with that,
keep looking at it and opening to that, it somehow morphs into a
fullness that buzzes every cell in my body and makes me feel
like I'm going to bust...and something you could call "joy"
seems to be the thing filling me up and almost making me
burst....
In life with others, I see that I am acting all the time,
playing a role--this role, that role--and it is very interesting
and kinda cool not to be prone to worry about things--even my
two teenage kids (as a mom, I used to do somewhat less than the
normal mom-amount of worrying about them). The outcome of some
money issues was a huge question mark up until a month ago; now
interestingly there is a ground to stand on there for at least a
few years. That has not existed financially in my life for over
a decade.
And my two kids are suddenly gone from my home--daughter went
off to boarding high school (her choice, she made it a goal 4
years ago), son went off to live with dad (he was helped to make
that choice, but is happy with it). I am an empty nester 4
years too early, and I see this as a suspicious opportunity,
alongside the financial circumstances becoming more solid....
I don't really care about or feel investment in anything other
than this process--and it appears life has opened up a space for
me to do whatever it takes.
I've emailed a little bit with Scotty Kiloby; I get what he and
B Katie are saying, and that "noticing" he talks about (and
"resting in presence") is something I am getting more and more
disciplined about doing. It happens a lot sort of "by itself"
now. Doing that does seem to act like a letter-opener, slid in
between my laminated layers, wiggling about...and Scott K says
continuing to do that is all that is needed (plus the Inquiries,
of course, or whatever technique of brutal self-honesty/seeing
clearly/shining the light on EVERYTHING). I do spiritual
autolysis...I have done it all my life, actually, without
realizing that is what I was doing (have kept a scathingly
honest journal since I was 9 yrs old).
I am not convinced that "noticing" and "resting in presence" is
all that is needed, but of course I don't know...! I will keep
doing it forever and ever, for as long as it takes, but I am
writing you because I want to know if there is anything else to
try. Wu Wei Wu's stuff "speaks" to me, arrests something in me,
and that "arresting" I've come to see as at the very least a
good ushering-in of more wiggling of the letter-opener. So I
have ordered all 8 of his books.
I see it all, intellectually or conceptually or whatever. I
understand your book TOE (conceptually). I understood that from
your trilogy--before you put out TOE. I know from experience
what Bernadette Roberts is talking about in her description of
the stages through what she calls the "unitive state" and you
call Human Adulthood. Sometimes now I feel like I might be on
that "fine line" she talks about, but--I'm still here. And for
me, HA is not going to be a resting place. It's a way-station.
I can see clearly that it's not a life I can take up residence
in. I suck as an actor and I'll never be able to rest in this
kind of life.
Here's my best guess at what awaits me to do: Via something
Scott K said about finding my core belief (in order to see it,
which will make it dissolve), and via watching the movie
"Ender's Game" and seeing the whole thing about how destroying
the queen(s) destroys all of the Formics, I suspect that though
much has burned off, I have some core belief/the queen/my
deepest most cherished & tightly held belief that is hanging on.
Hiding. I have been looking for it everywhere--especially
outside of me now (the place where I have the worst vision),
trying to SEE what I am projecting consistently onto others.
I'm not finding it (though it maddens me to know that if it were
a snake it woulda bit me by now...I'm sure I'm standing right by
it....).
I am wondering if my queen bee-lief that is eluding my search is
The Thing (or something related to The Thing) that launched me
like an arrow shot from a bow, which landed me in the Ahab
situation?--THAT was finding out about having been massively
betrayed by someone I loved and who I thoroughly believed loved
me--and I surrendered to the work of "loving my enemy" instead
of hating and condemning him. Now, I care nothing about having
been betrayed (though the shredding-me feelings of shock and
hurt still arise sometimes, and I watch them, and I welcome them
because they feel somehow "productive"), and I recognize that
the loving-one's-enemy thing is one of a list of things that if
REALLY done, will get a good burn going like a meteor getting
burned away upon entering the earth's atmosphere....
At first I was horrified and furious to see that whatever it was
in me that generated all that love for him and belief in him and
belief in our love was GONE (I had a really gigantic heart, I
was incredibly loyal and passionate and this was the case across
the board in my life, not just in my relationship with him)--I
resented that having been destroyed, and hated that, and howled
at the moon for a long time over that--but after I opened to all
that, it all got fully felt, it all fully shredded in me, and I
was shocked to find eventually that I'm over that and I see
after all this time that that stuff is really gone, and I don't
mind anymore that I don't have the "love"-making & projecting
mental/emotional equipment anymore, which would be needed in
order to go on forward and fall in love with someone else some
day. I am fine with this, have been for 2 years now.
But what I REALLY WANT TO KNOW is how to use what still remains
of my sometimes-still-Ahabian extreme focus/inward energy with
regard to him--if it can still be used. Since I still have
times here and there when the rawness of the feelings of
betrayal or the missing-him (the him I thought existed) get
going with some shredding in me, this can still be useful,
right? So where is the belief? If it's the belief in "love,"
well, I already have seen through that (but maybe not all the
way?). If it's the belief in my own unworthiness of love or
unworthiness of whatever else, I've already seen through that
too (but maybe not all the way?).
How do I find the core belief? I don't think there are tons of
layers left around it, but it appears there are enough to hide
it. I sense that if I can get to it and SEE IT CLEARLY, it will
shred me the rest of the way, dissolve, and end this thing.
Please advise, if you can.
--Misha Wait--PS--after what happened, I mean, after what I
found out in 2011, I did a lot of research on sociopaths (he
turned out to be a well-behaved sociopath, as in, not
homicidal). I discovered that they have an ability to "draw
out" in others/their "victims" the massive attachment and belief
that later, when the victim finds out the truth, has so much
energy in it, they cannot get de-tached from the "sociopathic
fiction" that was created for them to enjoy. The best
illustration of this is a book called Lunch With a Sociopath,
based on the experience of some woman in Texas. The projections
elicited by the sociopath "catch" the victim in a web of
illusion that it's not possible to get out of--IMHO--EXCEPT BY
going through the shredding/burning, all the way to the end. Of
course, the victims do not know or understand this. They only
know they can't move on inside, even if they know they have to
move on in three dimensions because their favorite sociopath
(harhar) has moved on and left them in the dust. Or been found
out. Or shown him/herself to be dangerous. Etc.... I see
these sociopaths who work only with projections (not with
instruments of torture or murder) as actually being incredibly
efficient at creating the exact right conditions for the
awakening of their "victims," without knowing this. The puppet
strings they expertly find and learn to manipulate, are the very
attachments/projections that form the scaffolding of their
victim's "me." That's me, Jed. I still feel enough re my
favorite well-behaved sociopath that I know I am still bound to
a certain degree by those puppet strings, even though he put me
down and walked away years ago. Nobody knows this but me in my
life, and I already know this is not a psychological or
emotional problem, but rather a situation of all or nothing vis
a vis the truth. And I think it's the case, also, for all those
who have fallen under the spell of a sociopathic fiction and
can't get out. To get free from that, it's necessary to get
free from the whole self/belief/personal will/emotional
structure. So is it safe to assume that my "core belief," my
"queen," is in there somewhere? In those puppet strings he
found and played with for so long? I am IMBUING this, I am
FEEDING these strings with energy, and I have no idea HOW I am
doing that, so I don't know how to stop. The projector in me is
stuck in THIS ONE AREA and I have the sledge hammer in my hands
ready to bust the projector (my self, I know) to pieces, but I
cannot FIND it in order to do that!
If you can, please help me find it and take it to pieces.--Misha
#Post#: 1981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Jed McKenna Date: September 30, 2014, 5:45 am
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Thank you for sharing. Sounds like an interesting experience. I
sometimes find it difficult to believe how smart people do
stupid things, but then, sometimes stupid people do smart
things. It all keeps the world interesting.
I'm going to suggest something that many folks are going to
think pretty weird and un-Jed like. But I actually used it many
years ago. Whether or not it's real we could argue about until
blue in the face. All I am suggesting is you try it.
You have many tentacles that were inserted and hooked into you.
On an intellectual level one might say, 'He made me dependent on
this, or that', but it goes much further'. Consciously and
sometimes unconsciously there are actual psychic thread that
extend our from him to you and they are not easy too remove.
They are actually created every time we touch another person.
You need the weed eater process. It's all done in the
imagination, but the result are not imaginary at all.
Imagine a sizable weed eater, something that is powered be a
strong motor and has vicious unforgiving teeth. Crank it up and
sever all the tentacle that are stuck in you. You might want to
imagine them healing up and return to your body in a healthier
manner. Just crank that sucker up and cut away, all around
your body.
For those that are going to say, 'WTF Jed, have you lost it'. I
suggest you just go read something else. This is not for you.
Also, it has nothing to do with T/R, it's about clearing the
crap out that some ass-hole has placed in there. And, trust me,
you are not alone on this. We all carry these to a greater or
lesser degree. You have them in you to a pretty high degree and
I suspect forward motion is going to be very difficult with
them.
Just give is a go. One in the morning and one in the evening,
especially around the time your may have fought or 'F**ked.'
Landscaping is now called for. Feedback welcome.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 2006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: September 30, 2014, 10:43 am
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Hi Jed,
I get the imagining/visualization thing; I will do this. I will
do it these times and also whenever the "stuff" arises. Some
questions:
I can make it arise--I can turn TO it and make it come up. I
have done that periodically over the past few years to "check"
and see if it's still there (it is), and to see if it's just as
strong or if it is waning (it varies, sometimes it's not there
at all, and I get fooled into thinking that part is done). I
MIGHT also be able to refrain from doing that checking but I'm
not sure, because sometimes it seems to happen automatically
(like an automatic pulse-check), and I'm not sure if that is a
very good idea (resistance might make it stronger?)--I have
wondered at times if that "checking" makes it stronger, or
weakens it (because it definitely is like facing it, opening to
it, etc.--whenever it arises it has that shredding power and
energy, so it seems possible it might weaken it even if in the
moment it is larger in my awareness).
I have a swather I use to cut hay and I'm going to use that
image instead--more than a weed wacker is needed, I'm pretty
sure...
But I'm already seeing that an odd kind of resistance comes up
when I go to do it. When I even picture doing it. The
resistance has to do with not WANTING the tendrils to be severed
from me (I used to be embarrassed about admitting that sort of
thing--now I don't give a flying u no what, I just want to know
the truth about what is going on, what this is, what this isn't,
and how to end it). This suggests to me that what we have here
is a very strong/ropy/thick projection of some invisible
contents of ME onto my image of HIM.
Any suggestion re the resistance that comes up? I've learned to
see resistance anywhere as a signal to LOOK VERY CLOSELY, and
OPEN OPEN OPEN. Same with this? Or no? Thank you--Misha
#Post#: 2007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Jed McKenna Date: September 30, 2014, 11:01 am
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Dear Misha:
Do it with whatever you see a the best tool, just make sure it's
darn sharp. But don't wait until somethings comes up, do it once
in the morn and once in the evening. Best if not when anything
is coming up.
Regarding resistance, it's simple. Do it or leave the forum. Do
it religiously for at least five days. I don't care how much
resistance comes up. I'm deadly serious. You came here for some
changes and I offer one key that's a good start. If you don't do
it give it your best shot, please leave the forum.
If you say.. 'Yeh, it worked but blah, blah, blah' then I will
know you are full of shit and don't want any changes. It's
also a good indicator that you should leave. In case you haven't
gathered it by now, I mean business. Neurotic fear based b.s.
stories will just not be tolerated. If it's something real,
let's deal with it, otherwise we are wasting both of our time.
Either way, it's not personal and I wish you the best.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 2025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: September 30, 2014, 9:13 pm
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Hi Jed,
Well HELL-o.
I wasn't thinking for a second that I wouldn't do it. So I
looked back at my post to see if I sounded like I was
considering not doing it...? Didn't see that. But let me make
sure I am clear on this here n now: fyi I am deadly serious.
I'll be doing it the rest of my life, not for five days. (Until
it's gone.)
There is no life to return to--not bc "things suck" or are "not
going my way" (weirdly, they actually are in some astounding
ways), but bc in me, there is no investment in life the way
there was before. There is no life like there was before.
Whoever or whatever I am now cannot participate in what everyone
else seems to be doing. I fake it ALL THE TIME, mainly bc I
have 2 kids who still need the mother they grew up with (from a
distance now), for awhile longer. That is not SO hard to do
anymore (to fake it), bc it appears there is a kind of
auto-pilot-faking-it-mechanism that kicks in now, but this thing
I am doing, which looks to others like "living," is not real to
me like it was. There's no "meaning" except what people invent,
and tho that can be very beautiful, the vast ability I used to
have to create a sense of meaning has been ix-nayed. So, there
are only 2 options for me--further, or stuck.
In my response to you I was trying to ask a question re the
resistance. I will try again, & see if I can be clearer.
So far along this...trajectory...I have noticed (harhar) that
noticing resistance in any form tends to seem
important--watching it arise, seeing it, opening to it in the
sense of opening to whatever it's about, whatever it contains,
etc.. Not ignoring it, not contracting against it, not trying
to not see it, not being a bulldozer with/against it. I KNOW
the tendrils must be severed or ripped out by their roots--the
question is, in THIS kind of thing, is it going to be more
effective for me to continue doing (vis a vis the inward
resistance to the blades) what I've done before, these 3+ years
with whatever comes up, or is there a different approach,
different orientation toward the resistance that would be more
effective?
I hope I was clearer this time with that question.
I've been using the inward-swather today, as many times as the
thought came up (which was more than it has been, I think bc now
it's on my mind since we are talking about it). At one point
the big giant John Deere swather morphed itself into one of
those little stick-blenders, you know, that you use to puree
soups, etc., and that made me laugh.
Thank you for the clarification that I should do it more first,
without waiting for it to arise on its own. I did not
understand that from your original note except for the 1p and 1a
scheduling.
It occurs to me that I could turn the blades on the resistance,
too? (In my imagination.) But is that more effective than
opening to it? The resistance is very interesting, and I sense
it has a lot of information for me if I could see it more
clearly--but I also know from past experience along this wild
ride that SOMETIMES (not always) such interesting info-filled
things are just side alleys. Detours. Delays. (Although,
usually also "productive" ultimately.) Do you have a
suggestion re best orientation toward the resistance?
Thankee--Misha
#Post#: 2027--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Jed McKenna Date: October 1, 2014, 12:18 am
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Show my what this resistance looks like, where it is, etc. Maybe
to a Kiloby (unfindable objects inquiry) on it.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 2058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: October 1, 2014, 11:31 am
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It is first a STOP inside (bland, no positive or negative
feeling to it). The inward movement freezes (w/out the cold
connotation) re the "task" of starting up the blades and turning
them on the tentacles.
Btw, I have a sense that the tentacles must be me (sensing that,
not just conceptually figuring that out)...but sensing that does
not seem to give me better access to them, either w/ the blades
or ability to SEE them.
Then when I proceed in spite of the inward STOP (without waiting
for it to cooperate), there's a feeling of heaviness across my
elbows area (as if they were linked), and across my middle--the
bottom of rib cage. And then I am pretty sure something
"dissociates." In an escape way, not in a de-laminating way.
And then the image holds no energy--it's empty and unreal and
the swather or stick-blender or whatever image I started out
with (or try to bring in more directly) doesn't seem to be
related or effective or relevant or something like that.
I will do the unfindable inquiry, yes. Dunno why that didn't
occur to me (the resistance at work behind-the-scenes, probly),
thanks for the suggestion.
I will try all this, plus one other idea i'm getting...talk to
you soon, & thank you.... But I will check back here to see if
you have any more suggestions, mientras tanto.
--Misha
#Post#: 2064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: October 1, 2014, 2:50 pm
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Hi Jed,
You know what, I think the imagining-cutting-tendrils must be
having an effect already. For no other reason I can identify as
a possibility, there is a lot of energy coming in to me. This
is not new; I've had this happen lots of times in the past few
years. But I've come to associate it with the disappearance or
elimination or burning off of another portion of...me/the
personal will/etc..
Although, I'm not 100% sure that is what that energy pouring in
is resulting from each time--do you know?
Anyway, it started happening in the last few hours. I'll keep
after the cutting. I have to say, it's effective in a way I did
not anticipate--even when thoughts of him & all that (and even
just thoughts of your advice about this) come up, I can turn
toward those tendrils with even just my little stick-blender
(wielding it like a short light saber, har!) and start the
WHIRRRRRRR--and both see them and open to them, AND press into
them with the blades, at the same time.
So it looks like there is an opening and a doing happening at
the same time. (And maybe both were needed?--not just the
opening?)
It's only a little creepy to know that I'm pressing into my own
belly (metaphorically speaking) with those blades....
I'm alright with it. Onward... :)
--Misha
#Post#: 2094--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Jed McKenna Date: October 2, 2014, 2:19 am
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Keep at it Misha.
If it's all imagination (which it is) you might as well have
some fun.
Love ya, Jed.
#Post#: 2116--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trying to find/see the core belief!
By: Misha Date: October 2, 2014, 10:42 am
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Did you?
At this point?
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