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Jason Moyle Racing
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DIR Return to: ROLLING ROAD & ENGINE DYNO RESULTS
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#Post#: 254--------------------------------------------------
Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Tonyb Date: August 10, 2012, 3:19 pm
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Here are two dyno sheets for the engine in my car, figures at
the wheels plus a pic of the car on the rollers at Vince Mosleys
in Llandeilo (my local RR).
The first is sheet, first plot is with a full race pack D+ TSR
head, twin 45's mapped ignition, 4 branch and a Schrick 304 cam,
std VW pistons. The second plot is with a JMR developed version
of the TSR head, Spiess F3 throttle bodies, mapped ignition and
fuel, 4 branch and a Schrick 320 cam, Wiseco forged pistons.
The second sheet is the same spec engine but with about 200
miles on it and a few hrs of the rollers with adjustments to the
cam, ignition and fuel ;D. 8v's can make power despite what
people say.
[IMG]
HTML http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab201/tonybarber/GolfDynorun2010.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab201/tonybarber/GolfDynoprintout2011.jpg[/img]
[IMG]
HTML http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab201/tonybarber/GolfonrollersJuly2010.jpg[/img]
#Post#: 257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Robin_16v Date: August 10, 2012, 6:23 pm
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i love this engine ;D
#Post#: 571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Tonyb Date: November 2, 2012, 3:16 pm
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Here we go, dirty washing in public and all that ;)
The car has been up to Vince Mosley's rolling road in Llandeilo
for a bit of testing etc. Vince has up dated his whole set up
and has computerised the road plus added a weather station to
correct the data for all sorts of atmospheric variations.
Between Jason and I we have made some changes to the engine
earlier this year. I added a different exhaust manifold to suit
the chassis mods based on a Miltek 4:1 system. Broadly similar
to the heavily modified Ashley I ran before and agian modifed to
suit the head which has some big holes in it! The head was
modified by Jason with the valves up from 40.5mm to 42mm and
additional porting to match. Having driven it a few times it
felt well good but with 750kgs and over 200bhp it was allways
going to feel lively :D. It felt a bit flatter low down but
picked up nicely. having seen the first plot it was clear that
it was flat bottom and and then picked up strongly higher up.
Due to the changes to the rolling road the data this year will
be different to the un corrected data from last year although we
have the uncorrected data available as well. We spent a while
checking and adjusting fuel and ignition maps to see what effect
they had. There didn't seem to be many changes required other
than at the bottom end, up to 3000rpm where it was down around
15bhp on where it should have been.
Generally a disappointing day as we started off down on power
with a big hole around 4500rpm. After an hour or so we had the
blue map. It just didn't really want to make peak power. Ok it
was running to 8000rpm and still holding power but it wasn't
really peaking as you would expect around 7k or so.
[IMG]
HTML http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab201/tonybarber/tattygolf.jpg[/img]
We then played with the cam timing. We tried retarding it a
degree but this made it worse so we then advanced it and whilst
it still didn't want to peak we added a dgerre or two at a time
and we eventually ended up with the green trace. This is the
opposite to what we did last year to gain power, we are
essentially back where we started with last years engine when we
first put it on the rolling road.
Analysing what we have got and comparing to the last plots
uncorrected figures we have 183bhp max at the wheels (176bhp
corrected). This years figs were taken in 5th gear and I'm sure
last years were taken in 4th, based on that and just for a like
for like comparison we would have about 219bhp at the crank. So
like for like about the same but we should have more that that,
I would have thought we were 4 or 5 bhp short of what I would
have expected on that basis.
Going back to corrected bhp we have around 170+ bhp at the
wheels from 5500rpm to over 7500rpm in a very linear form, with
a slight peak at 6000rpm where we have the 176bhp, which is
around 206bhp at the crank so not too shabby for an 8v but not
what I had expected.
There is 10 or 15 bhp in there somewhere but where?
Whilst a little disapointing on the day it is now quite
interesting to find out where the power is. After a couple of
hours on the rolling road everything was overheating, petrol
vaporising etc so we gave up.
Jason is convinced much of it is cam timing, I don't think it's
that simple. I think the obvious culprit is the exhaust
manifold, whilst very similar I've an idea the primaries were a
few mm smaller that the Ashley. It's all ok in side as I cut it
up to check and tidy it up. Maybe the valve dia increase has in
some way affercted the induction length as well? I need to get
some data over to Jason to have a look at and whilst I won't put
all the answers up here I'll give you some clues what we do ;)
Once we have list together I'll record where we are settings
wise, do some checks and then re set it up and we'll run it up
again and see if we can find the rest of the power.
#Post#: 576--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: JMR Date: November 5, 2012, 3:59 am
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We'll get there Mr B....the requirements will have changed with
the extra airflow through the head so induction & exhaust
length's will be fussier. It's at the power level now where
correct primary size's will work better & the overall tract
length needs adjusting to drag the top end back...there's more
there before you go and do something drastic like buy a 16v! ;D
#Post#: 578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Stooza Date: November 6, 2012, 6:34 am
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...there's more there before you go and do something drastic
like buy a 16v!
Cheeky git lol
#Post#: 948--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Tonyb Date: September 22, 2013, 2:30 pm
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Not updated anything in here for a while. Been busy working and
racing and have struggled to do much at all online.
Following on from the failure of last year on the rolling road
we re grouped and made a few changes and then returned to Vince
Mosleys rolling road and after a days playing around we had the
green tace below.
The reason for starting at 5k is that we were struggling against
the heat issues that the rear exhausts and induction system
create. Vince thought if we start at 5k and run up quickly
before the heat starts killing the power at the top end we might
get a truer reading, seemed to work. As ever the car was on the
edge of incineration for much of the time, lots of smoke, heat
and the smell of burning.
[URL=
HTML http://s864.photobucket.com/user/tonybarber/media/Midrun-tattygolf3_zps87aeb4ea.png.html][IMG]http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab201/tonybarber/Midrun-tattygolf3_zps87aeb4ea.png[/img][/URL]
These figs are wheel BHP and the result at the crank equates to
233bhp @ 7250rpm uncorrecrted and when corrected for
temp/humidity/altitude etc it still equates to 224bhp at the
crank, still quite handy for a non crossflow 8v!
The chnages made included shortened the trumpets (as much as
possible with the Spiess F3 induction system), a set of custom
Magnacore leads made, new plugs, Fresh petrol plus cam timing,
ignition and fuel changes. Also added an electric water pump -
every little helps!
Jason recently drove the car at Wiscombe hillclimb and whilst we
had a few handling issues on the day I think Jason was suitably
impressed with the engine, if not the drivability of the chassis
on the day. So much so that he claimed more power was not
required - not what you normally expect to hear when talking
about an 8v Golf engine! It always amazes me how much grunt
these engines produce when correctly put together, so much more
than the sum of the parts.
#Post#: 949--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: Smudge Date: September 22, 2013, 3:51 pm
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Great to read about this Tony. Your engine certainly is very
desirably and has made me often dream about a tasty 8v lump. :P
#Post#: 956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: GEL Date: September 24, 2013, 6:18 pm
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Hi Tony ... had wondered what that `hot spot` over Llandeilo was
;) ;D
Great work by all !
No changes for next season then ?
#Post#: 957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tatty Black and White Golf dyno sheets
By: JMR Date: September 25, 2013, 5:21 pm
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Yep....tracking! ::) :D
There's plenty of power, and if all of it could be used most of
the time it would be ballistic!
I've recently parked the next phase on the workbench...and ran
out of fingers counting valves! ;D....but we have demons to
exercise first eh Tony! 8)....Wiscombe Park 2014....I've booked
a sunny day for us!
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