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#Post#: 1870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: db105 Date: December 1, 2017, 12:09 pm
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I think it's funny that he blamed you for not enforcing chore
rules strictly enough. ;D
Zeke is certainly a singular case, given his background. He
deserves to make his new life work and be happy. Well, everyone
does, but he particularly, after the upbringing he has had.
#Post#: 1871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Jack Date: December 1, 2017, 12:30 pm
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[quote author=db105 link=topic=8.msg1870#msg1870
date=1512151772]
I think it's funny that he blamed you for not enforcing chore
rules strictly enough. ;D
[/quote]
It is funny, but it also makes sense. The simple truth is that
Zeke grew up with almost constant supervision, and under the
threat of contant punishment for the slightest violation. While
he obviously did rebel some from time to time (he mentioned
sneaking away from chores to go swimming, as well as reading the
book that was his final trouble there, and refusing to reveal
who'd provided it for him), I think it's understandable that he
has trouble adjusting to more freedom than to what he's
accustomed.
#Post#: 2706--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: db105 Date: January 1, 2018, 9:07 pm
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=8.msg1869#msg1869 date=1512141949]
At this point, our main takeaway is that he's basically on zero
tolerance for chores.
[/quote]
So how ¡s Zeke doing with chores? I know he got one spanking
already, but is he doing better? Will he get out of zero
tolerance soon?
#Post#: 2711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Jack Date: January 2, 2018, 6:14 am
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[quote author=db105 link=topic=8.msg2706#msg2706
date=1514862432]
[quote author=Jack link=topic=8.msg1869#msg1869 date=1512141949]
At this point, our main takeaway is that he's basically on zero
tolerance for chores.
[/quote]
So how ¡s Zeke doing with chores? I know he got one spanking
already, but is he doing better? Will he get out of zero
tolerance soon?
[/quote]
Let me start this by being non-responsive for a moment.
The other day, I was looking at some old files, and I started
reading about when Zeke very first came to live with us. I had
made a comment there, off the cuff, but with some experience
behind it, that I expected it to be four years before Zeke would
be ready to start working for his GED. Now, in a way, that's
where we're at. But, little more than two years after he turned
18, he's sitting in a regular high school class, getting in less
trouble than a lot of kids I know, and bringing home pretty
decent grades, even if he is in a couple of remedial classes.
Sometimes when you see someone every day, it's hard to tell how
much they've grown. It was reading back over those posts that
made me realize what an incredible job he's done, and how proud
I am of what h's managed.
I cried, and when I got control of myself, I told him exactly
that. He was a bit confused, because he doesn't see it, but he
was still very happy that I was happy.
I say that because he's doing great. I'm not going to let him
off zero tolerance because he doesn't want to get a spanking
he's earned, but I'm basically going to follow my lead. If he
wants to leave it in place for a while, I can do that. After
all, he's still a slow grower, so it's not like spanking an
adult, and I'm the one who determines how hard it needs to be,
so I can take it easier or even give him a pass if I feel he's
being too strict on himself or he's having a rough patch.
I don't really think he needs to be on zero tolerance, but I do
understand that what he's asking for (at least i think what he
wants is more consistent and frequent feedback). In the end,
he's the one who's gone through this, and he seems to have a
pretty good idea where he wants and needs to go, so I'm going to
keep a loose hand on the wheel and follow his lead.
#Post#: 2724--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: kalico Date: January 2, 2018, 1:18 pm
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Awww.... this young man has come an incredibly long way from
when you first got him and I know it's due to you and him
willing to work with each other... so happy for Zeke
Hugs kal
#Post#: 3025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Jack Date: January 16, 2018, 7:50 pm
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I kept changing my mind on the best way to share last night's
incident with Connor, Curtis, and Zeke. That's part of the
reason it took me until this evening to share it.
While the incident ended up on the Spanking Report, I also
wanted to come here.
The simple truth is that I'm just not sure how to treat Zeke.
Despite being close to 21, he still doesn't seem full grown.
He's not especially tall, but there's just still something
adolescent about his build and face. I'm trying to work with
him, but he's not consistent, so it's hard for me to be
consistent with him. I do try to react to him how he seems to
need it, but that's not easy to do. The simple fact is that I
don't want him to have to be mature - I want to give him room to
be immature and take time learning and growing, but I also
don't want to treat him like a little kid, if he wants to try
for more.
Discussing this during chat today, I had a thought. I'm going
to talk to his therapist and share my concerns. Then I'll get
the therapist to sit down with both of us so we can try to
decide what Zeke wants right now, and what he sees as his goals.
My own thought, based on how I see him acting, is that he's
still worried about adulthood and having to be responsible for
too much. Zeke was never really raised foreseeing that, and I
want to give him time. He's not been with us three years yet,
and the way he was raised made him miss out on a lot. I don't
want to make him feel like I'm keeping him from something he's
ready for, but I don't want to force him into anything either.
Hopefully, the therapist can kind of help the two of us decide
on a few goals, where he'll be happy and I'll be less stressed
over each shift in his behavior.
#Post#: 3026--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Zyngaru Date: January 16, 2018, 9:06 pm
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Jack,
I am glad you wrote this. I read the spanking report and it
gave me some uncertainty about Zeke. So I went looking for the
page that has the boys ages on them, and I found this post
first. Thus I know Zeke is 21. But from what you are writing,
I gather he is 21 years old biologically, but not mentally or
emotionally. It sounds like you are saying that Zeke, might
want to be younger than his biological age. He either doesn't
want to grow up, or can't grow up. I am talking about maturity.
For a 21 year old, to purposely stop playing with C & C after
you told him to stop, and then after you leave to go right back
and begin playing again. That is more than disobedience. yes
it is disobedience, but much more to it than that. That is an
immaturity that I would not expect a 21 year old to have. That
is an immaturity that I would not expect a 15 year old to have.
So I totally agree that this needs to be brought to the
attention of his therapist. I also agree that a heart to heart
talk needs to be made, probably with the therapist there. It
needs to be non-threatening. Zeke cannot be scared or worried
or on edge in any way. He needs to be totally relaxed, so that
you can get to why he feels he needs to act like a 10 year old?
I am not a shrink, and educationally I have no expertise on
this, but deep within my soul, I feel Zeke is no where close to
being a 21 year old. And to view him as a 21 year old instead
of his age appropriate behavior is showing, could harm him
emotionally. Just my thoughts.
I look forward to hearing how the meeting with the therapist
goes.
I hope I am not overstepping myself in giving my 2 cents.
#Post#: 3030--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Jack Date: January 17, 2018, 4:46 am
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[quote author=Zyngaru link=topic=8.msg3026#msg3026
date=1516158414]
I hope I am not overstepping myself in giving my 2
cents.[/quote]
Not at all, but it would probably help if I shared a bit more
information that's no longer around.
Zeke came to us not long before he turned 18. The reason he
ended up with me was an inability to get him into the system
before he aged out of it.
The problem with Zeke is that he was more or less raised in a
cult. It wasn't a large group, but seemed to be more of a
family sect living together outside of town and homeschooling
the kids. When I met Zeke, he had not had a normal childhood,
and he didn't have a lot of education. He knew a bit of math
(about 4th grade) and read on a middle school level, I think.
A few things I know about him and how he was raised is that he
was raised very strictly, with very little freedom, and without
any expectation of adulthood. From what he's said, he was told
he was a child, and that he hadn't even started to earn being
treated with any respect. Basically, I think he was just
expected to shut up and work on what he was told - mainly farm
type stuff. The 'adults' were really just a few elders who ran
everything.
I think the big problem that Zeke and I have is that he doesn't
really have anything on which to set his behavior and start
building. His first months with us were shock after shock, as
we continued to realize how little he really knew. In a lot of
ways, he's progressed greatly over the past couple of years. I
think a lot of the trouble is that I've encouraged him to
explore and try what he wants, and I try to avoid embarrassing
him about not knowing something or being interested in things
that others his age might not consider especially cool or
mature. The trouble on my part is that I want to kind of have a
handle on him and a general idea of how to react to and treat
him.
He and I just have to balance all those things, and figure out
if it's really appropriate for me to be spanking his butt,
because he can't behave better than a 10-year old, or if he
needs to be pulled away from behavior like that. My honest
feeling is that I'm okay with it if he is, I just don't want to
be doing some kind of harm to him.
#Post#: 3034--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: db105 Date: January 17, 2018, 5:52 am
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It seems to me that involving him and his therapist in that
decision is the right thing to do. It also seems right to worry
about both things: wanting to give him space to grow up at his
own pace and not wanting to hold him back if he feels ready for
more. Whatever he decides, being able to understand and take
part in the decision can only be a good thing.
#Post#: 3035--------------------------------------------------
Re: Zeke - 13 Sept 2017
By: Zyngaru Date: January 17, 2018, 7:19 am
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=8.msg3030#msg3030 date=1516185972]
He and I just have to balance all those things, and figure out
if it's really appropriate for me to be spanking his butt,
because he can't behave better than a 10-year old, or if he
needs to be pulled away from behavior like that. My honest
feeling is that I'm okay with it if he is, I just don't want to
be doing some kind of harm to him.
[/quote]
I totally agree. Trying to find the right balance. If anyone
can, it will be you.
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