DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Jack's House
HTML https://jackshouse.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Free Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 8270--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Jack Date: August 23, 2018, 1:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As an English teacher (if not one by training), I do understand
some of the points Flagellant makes. The problem is, the points
he hammers one seem to be ones that can be repaired by coding,
instead of ones that are real problems. For myself, almost any
time I use effect/affect, I have to look up the differences.
Any more/anymore aren't really such a problem for me. The
problem is, you can write code to find and 'correct' any usage
of anymore.
The trouble is that I've read proper English, and Flagellant
doesn't use it. I've never even seen him try to differentiate
between thee and thou - he just uses this lazy, modern 'you'
instead. It's horrible, it's not proper, and it shouldn't be
allowed!
Which is my joking way of pointing out that English is a proper
language, and it does change. Flagellant's problem seems to lie
both in the fact that he buys into the Henry Higgins assumption,
and he believes (as many people do) that English (in this
particular case), as it was when he was learning it, was at it's
peak, and the world would be better if it was just restored to
that point. While there are some things about modern language
and slang that I dislike, I have to say that arguing about the
term 'Lego' to refer to a brick is just ridiculous. If I say 'I
stepped on a Lego', I doubt there are many people who wouldn't
understand what I meant.
While I'd have more sympathy with his beliefs if we were being
paid to write technical papers - we aren't. While he doesn't
make money off of our stories, we are still writing them for
free, to share, and we're writing them as entertaining
(hopefully) fiction. While I understand that Flagellant and I
don't write similar fiction (except insofar as they're both in
the spanking genre), I person feel that my stories would suffer
from being too formal and pedantic, particularly when they're
often told from the point of view of a younger person, and I
deliberately chose not to always write those properly.
In the end, what bothers me most is Flagellant's statement about
'illiterate common US usage'. While Flagellant is certainly
entitled to his own opinion, it seems funny that he pushes Trump
as a negative, while seeming to share Trump's desire to spread
hateful, divisive rhetoric.
#Post#: 8271--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Kat Date: August 23, 2018, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Jack link=topic=786.msg8270#msg8270
date=1535050372]In the end, what bothers me most is Flagellant's
statement about 'illiterate common US usage'. While Flagellant
is certainly entitled to his own opinion, it seems funny that he
pushes Trump as a negative, while seeming to share Trump's
desire to spread hateful, divisive rhetoric.
[/quote]
It's hard to reconcile his reactionary, chauvinistic attitudes
towards language with a person who concerns himself with the
concept of truth.
Kat
#Post#: 8277--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Kat Date: August 23, 2018, 3:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Flagellant"]You missed my point, Bobby. I said cultural
MISMATCH.
I don't care if American authors use "anymore" as long as they
do it in a way that is grammatically CORRECT. As I've explained
before clearly, with proof from Merriam-Webster et al, there are
circumstances in which, even in US usage, it is INCORRECT. My
point is this usage, like American spellings or other
anachronisms, isn't correct in stories set in the UK, where
purporting to be by someone with a UK/British POV.
Bringing up that language changes over time, or that there are
even more flavours overseas, is totally immaterial. I would
expect writers from other English-speaking places to aware of
their own local usage and write appropriately for stories set in
those locales. And as for time - Chaucerian English is fine if
you're setting a story around the Medieval period, not
otherwise. These are just poor strawmen.
As for words that are incorporated from other languages: another
straw man. We did not import "anymore". It's just that sheer
ignorance and mis-spacing of those two words widely perpetuated
(even on UK TV subtitles) is making it APPEAR as if this is the
new "modern" spelling. It is not.
What is unacceptable is a steamroller approach to culture from
the US, and the arrogance of claiming that they have the only
CORRECT English, by virtue of soft (or hard) power or mere
ubiquity. I have NEVER said that UK English is more correct than
US English, as this hue and cry would seem to suggest. Just that
if you're writing UK (not US) stories, you should use UK (not
US) English.
And Sheepie, it's not about nit-picking. If English isn't your
first language, be prepared to learn something if you post on a
non-German forum, just as I would expect to be corrected if I
post in the Green Salon in YOUR first language. I haven't
ridiculed anyone, just pointed out what is correct, and why, and
as others have pointed out that is backed up officially by LEGO
itself.[/quote]
I'll be succinct. Bullshit. One can't build a fence around any
culture and expect it never to change.
Kat
#Post#: 8279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Kat Date: August 23, 2018, 4:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've confined my opinion to Jack's House because I don't want to
be part of a Flagellant meltdown. However, his posts remind me
of why I stay away from the MMSA forum. Even posting stories for
the archive sucks when one has to deal with his nasty attitude.
Kat
#Post#: 8280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: stevieweeks Date: August 23, 2018, 4:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote=David Katz]I don't want to see happen is for Ian to leave
MMSA again.[/quote]
It was inevitable... it always happens, and always will
happen...
Stevie does not really understand why except that he thinks that
Ian really does not comprehend how offensive he can be... he has
alienated many, many people over the years...
This time, however, it has happened sooner than usual... ::)
#Post#: 8281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Kat Date: August 23, 2018, 4:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=stevieweeks link=topic=786.msg8280#msg8280
date=1535058844]
[quote=David Katz]I don't want to see happen is for Ian to leave
MMSA again.[/quote]
Stevie does not really understand why except that he thinks that
Ian really does not comprehend how offensive he can be... he has
alienated many, many people over the years...
[/quote]
I don't see how Ian can understand plain English and fail to
understand how and why he offends people. Enough people have put
it in blunt terms.
Kat
#Post#: 8282--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Jack Date: August 23, 2018, 4:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=David M. Katz link=topic=786.msg8278#msg8278
date=1535058141]
I know it is selfish but there are still things that need to be
done there that only he can handle.
[/quote]
And here is the real crux of the problem. Flag keeps all the
passwords to himself, so no one else is able to help out or deal
with the issue if there's a problem while he's away. Yet, when
he does come back, instead of dealing with those thing that
'need to be done', he wants to climb on his hobby horse and
attack people. And despite what he claims in the response to
Bobby that Kat shared, he is attacking people. How else is one
to interpret his 'illiterate common US usage' comment (which was
not punctuated corrected, from what I remember).
The fact is that Flag can be a really nice guy. He helped me
with the set up of the actual Bransomtx site, and he even added
the link to my earliest MMSA stories. I can understand his
frustration that there were some people using MMSA to post
horribly written story fragments. However, he needs to realize
that trying to force his views and beliefs on other people isn't
the best way to do anything. There's are reasons that many
people seem to loose their interest in writing spank-fiction.
I'm not going to blame Flag for driving anyone off, but I will
say that this kind of drama doesn't make things easier on
anyone, including himself.
#Post#: 8286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: ivor Date: August 23, 2018, 4:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=David M. Katz link=topic=786.msg8278#msg8278
date=1535058141]
I know it is selfish but there are still things that need to be
done there that only he can handle.
[/quote]
I have no wish to fan the flames further. I no longer post
stories on the site, but have no wish to create problems for
those who do. However, I will say that if there are things that
need to be done, it is a pity that instead of concentrating on
doing those he allowed himself to be diverted into a petty
squabble about the correct name of a variety plastic bricks.
And a question that perhaps those in the know can answer. I
can't be bothered to try and track down the source but I read
somewhere recently that he had changed 'anymore' in every story
on the site to any more. That is something he now appears to
deny has occurred. So can anyone shed any light?
Although I disagree with a lot of what he said in response to my
second post I will not respond, because as I said there, even
having a sensible discussion with him will lead nowhere.
#Post#: 8287--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: Kat Date: August 23, 2018, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Ivor"]And a question that perhaps those in the know can
answer. I can't be bothered to try and track down the source but
I read somewhere recently that he had changed 'anymore' in every
story on the site to any more. That is something he now appears
to deny has occurred. So can anyone shed any light?[/quote]
I saw in at least one of my stories that a correctly used
"anymore" was changed to "any more". I can't remember which
story or stories were involved. It didn't seem like a huge
issue, so I just clocked the change and left it at that.
Just now I did a keyword search for "anymore". Eighty-seven
stories came up. Your satirical story "It Doesn't Matter Anymore
came up. The search didn't find any of my stories.
#Post#: 8291--------------------------------------------------
Re: Quoth the Raven: 'Anymore'
By: David M. Katz Date: August 23, 2018, 10:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If one doesn't want the parser to automatically convert
'anymore' to 'any more' then, in your .rtf file, write the word
as 'any-more.' The parser is programmed to recognize this as
you stating that you know that 'anymore' is the correct usage
and your text will not be altered.
Otherwise, yes, 'anymore' will be changed to 'any more.' Also,
yes, when this discussion came about Flag wrote a code that ran
through all 30,000+ stories and converted any use of 'anymore'
to 'any more.' As I recall, I had 32 alterations to my stories.
I now avoid the word(s) completely when writing a MMSA story.
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page