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#Post#: 4308--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Zyngaru Date: March 10, 2018, 2:07 pm
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[quote]Mr. P tells me that he also received an earthshaking
lecture on the fact that he's going to be on 3 April, at which
point he could go to jail for something like this.
[/quote]
Mr. P tells me that he also received an earthshaking lecture on
the fact that he's going to be ( ) on 3
April, at which point he could go to jail for something like
this.
I think you were going to put ( 18 ) in that hole?
#Post#: 4309--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: db105 Date: March 10, 2018, 3:04 pm
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:o Be careful.
Jack, the action hero! ;D I have this image of the BCA students
as kind of goodie-goodie boys. I don't know why, because I know
that many of them are there because they had some behavior
problems, but the discipline is so strict that one doesn't
expect punches flying around.
You were not there for the paddling, right? So you didn't know
if any clothes were removed. What about David? Did you have the
chance to speak to him? I wonder what kind of car incident
caused the fight.
#Post#: 4310--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Jack Date: March 10, 2018, 3:28 pm
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[quote author=db105 link=topic=388.msg4309#msg4309
date=1520715881]
:o Be careful.
Jack, the action hero! ;D I have this image of the BCA students
as kind of goodie-goodie boys. I don't know why, because I know
that many of them are there because they had some behavior
problems, but the discipline is so strict that one doesn't
expect punches flying around.
You were not there for the paddling, right? So you didn't know
if any clothes were removed. What about David? Did you have the
chance to speak to him? I wonder what kind of car incident
caused the fight.
[/quote]
If the parents are called in, it's almost definitely going to be
bare. While Mr. P is younger than me, he still did middle
school in the 80s, when boys still wore briefs, so we've
discussed the trends now. I simply asked which he wore (boxer
briefs) and if he had to be told to take them down further (no -
he got them to mid thigh).
No, one doesn't expect actual fights, but sometimes hot tempers
win out.
Zyngaru - You were right about what went in the missing spot,
and I've corrected it. Thanks also to Adric, who caught that
and another mistake - both of which have been repaired.
#Post#: 4471--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Jack Date: March 18, 2018, 3:28 pm
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It was pointed out to me that I never shared part two - the
follow up to the fight that happened a couple of days before
Spring Break started.
It was the end of my day. I'd finished my third period, talked
to the kids as they left, gathered my stuff, and was leaving. I
go by the office to check out and check for any paperwork in my
cubby. When I walked into the office, David was already there,
just starting around the desk to the area where the private
offices are. Mr. P opened his door right then.
"Come in, David. Oh, Mr. Wells, do you have time to join us?"
I only needed to do grocery shopping before heading home, so I
had plenty of time, and my curiosity had been roused.
When we entered the office, Mr. P indicated that David's father
was on speaker phone.
"Come around here please, both of you."
We walked around behind his desk, as he'd indicated.
"David, your father isn't able to leave work to come in, so I
want you to watch this video clip and tell your father what it
shows."
He started a clip playing and we watched as two cars nearly
collided as one failed to wait their turn at the stop sign.
"Um, it's me and Chris almost wrecking this morning, but I
stopped in time."
"It looks like you went out of turn at the stop sign to me.
Would you say that's true?"
David looked a the phone like he could see his dad, but he
agreed.
"And that is from this morning?"
David nodded, then added, "Yes, sir."
"Good. Now, let's fast forward a few seconds while Chris pulls
through and... What's that in your hand?"
David muttered something that I couldn't understand. His father
asked him to repeat it.
"It's my phone," he admitted aloud.
"You were using your phone while you were driving?" his dad
asked.
"Yes, sir," David answered miserably.
"And that's why you rolled through the stop sign?"
"No!" David protested.
"You are already in deep trouble, David Robert. Don't add lying
to it."
"Dad, I didn't!"
"Fine, you just went out of turn at the stop sign coincidentally
when you were using your phone, is that right?"
"Yes, sir," David answered sounding defeated.
"(David's dad)," Mr. P said, "We can't keep you from allowing
David to drive to school, but parking is a privilege, not a
right, and it's exactly for reasons like this that safe and
careful driving is required to maintain parking privileges.
Fortunately a wreck didn't happen, and no one was seriously hurt
during the fight, but we can't allow behavior like this."
"(Mr. P), I'm sorry I can't come in, but I understand what
you're saying. It's like I already told you, David's mother and
I both have to leave for work early, and him being able to drive
has made things much easier. Believe me, it's going to be a
while before he has a chance to use his phone anywhere again,
much less behind the wheel, and he won't be driving anyplace
except school."
"Dad," David protested.
"I remember when you paddled him for skipping at the start of
the year. I can't come in now, but I do authorize Mr. Wells to
stand in for me, so you can paddle David bare - both for the
driving incident and for his part in the fight."
I was watching David as he protested again, and I'm pretty sure
he was barely managing to hold back tears at that point. When
he complained, his dad told him he'd be lucky if he didn't get
it again at home, along with the grounding. David sobbed then.
"David," Mr. P addressed him, "you can say you didn't get out of
turn at the stop sign because you were on your phone, but that's
hard for the rest of us to believe. I see three offenses here,
but I still can't blame you for the fight. However, your
behavior was the spark that set it off, agreed?"
David nodded reluctantly.
"However, that still leaves us with not yielding at the stop
sign, and using your phone while driving in a school zone. That
could have gotten you a very expensive ticket. Instead... Mr.
Wells, eight swats?"
I only had to consider it a second. That was going to be very
sore, but it wasn't the harshest I'd seen given, and while he
might not have meant to nearly cause a wreck, it was his very
deliberate choice that set it all off.
"Sounds fair," I replied.
David groaned.
Mr. P did explain that, even with his father's permission, he
could still refuse, which would lead to him spending the rest of
the day in ISS, and a parent having to come to pick him up.
He chose the licks.
He stepped up to the desk, dropped his trousers, then his
briefs. I didn't get a great look when he bent down, but he
doesn't look especially hairy, and he's a bit on the lean side,
though he is maybe a bit longer than a normal, soft hang.
Pretty cute.
The licks were slow and firm, and he only managed to take the
first two quietly. He was crying by the fifth one, but it was
pretty soft, never a harsh, broken crying. Like most boys, he
was much less worried about his modesty when he stood up, and he
lifted his shirt to enjoy a good rub before fixing his clothes,
which is when I did get a pretty good look, before going around
to check the damage and sign Mr. P's paperwork.
David was in class Friday, but he was obviously pretty
uncomfortable. I did talk to him and his dad once over the
vacation, when they called to ask about the reading assignment
the boys are doing. Because he was grounded from all
electronics for the week, he ended up doing quite a bit of
reading, and while his dad had been mad at him, he was happy to
drive him into Barnes and Nobles and pick up a couple of new
books I'd suggested (and assured him weren't on the reading
list).
#Post#: 4479--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: db105 Date: March 18, 2018, 6:57 pm
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Thanks for the account.
I'm guessing that the threat of more CP at home was just a
threat. It seems that between the paddling and the grounding it
should be enough to get the message.
#Post#: 4480--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Adric Date: March 18, 2018, 6:58 pm
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I thought this part was interesting because, at the end, both
David and Chris were paddled. David got eight licks and Chris
got "a long and thorough session with the mesquite paddle".
There was a fight, and a thorough analysis of all the
circumstances found blame on both sides. David's father agreed,
saying, "you can paddle David bare - both for the driving
incident and for his part in the fight." Then Mr. P said,
"However, your behavior was the spark that set (the fight) off,
agreed?" David nodded reluctantly.
So my point is this:
[quote author=Jack link=topic=388.msg4307#msg4307
date=1520708728]
It's common to punish both kids involved in a fight equally.
Part of the reason for this is probably to avoid arguments about
who's fault it was and who started it. In this case, not only
did we have independent witnesses, but while being questioned,
Chris pretty much admitted what happened.[/quote]
It may have appeared initially that Chris shouldered all the
blame, but in the final analysis there was enough blame for both
to justify the parental consultation and the paddle for both
boys.
When I was in school we were all told very clearly that both
participants in a fight would be paddled and that we could
forget about blaming the fight on the other boy or saying, "He
started it!" I can remember that sounding very unfair, but it
does give both participants a reason to do whatever they can to
keep an argument from progressing to a fight. I'm not sure if
the school administrators consistently followed that policy, but
they certainly made it clear that it was the policy. If you got
in a fight, you got paddled. Period.
The circumstances of this particular fight between David and
Chris seem to support that policy. That could be called a
coincidence, but I think that in many cases it is a difficult
judgment call to determine at exactly what point a heated
argument devolves into a fight. I suspect that in many cases
each boy feels certain that the other boy caused the fight and
he was only defending himself. In such a case it would seem
unjust to spank one boy and let the other go free based on the
difficult judgment of who touched the other first or who threw
the first punch.
There was a fight - you participated - you get the consequences.
It's a simple message, easy for any boy to comprehend, if not
to accept.
#Post#: 4488--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Jack Date: March 19, 2018, 4:26 am
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I understand what you're saying, Adric, but I disagree with you
- both in general, and in this case in particular.
In general, what you're saying is really just 'group
responsibility', which most everyone here claims to be against.
Let me give you an example. I was in a fight in sixth grade,
where my neighbor ran up behind, knocked me down, then tried to
kick me. When I got up and tried to find out what was going on,
he swung.
Once in the office, he claimed that he'd been playing King of
the Mountain, and I'd pushed him too hard. Later it occurred to
me that we had two 'friends' in common who liked to provoke
things. I think they'd been by where he was playing, and they
probably made u p some story, possibly even pushing him
themselves.
Neither one of us got paddled on that occasion, but the point
is, he ran up and attacked me from behind, because of something
he'd been told happened. How is that in any way fair that we
were both treated the same?
In this case, Chris had the option of moving on and forgetting
about it. I rarely drive into Dallas without someone doing
something crazy, but I can't follow that person until they stop,
then start a fight. Not once, much less every time. I'm with
Mr. P in that while David had done multiple things wrong,
starting a fight over it (especially having to track him down
later to do it), made the fight all Chris' fault, so he's the
one who deserved to be punished.
If you read Caleb's school trouble, I punished Caleb, not
because he started the fight, but because he had multiple
opportunists to avoid it, and he didn't. I do believe that it
takes two to tango, but I also believe a person has a right to
defend themselves if they're being assaulted, and saying both
parties will always be punished just smacks of laziness and zero
tolerance to me.
#Post#: 4833--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: squarecutter Date: April 1, 2018, 9:05 am
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Just worried for the independent witnesses with Chris clearly
sounding like a bit of a toughie. No worries about retribution
later?
#Post#: 4836--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Jack Date: April 1, 2018, 2:03 pm
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[quote author=squarecutter link=topic=388.msg4833#msg4833
date=1522591539]
Just worried for the independent witnesses with Chris clearly
sounding like a bit of a toughie. No worries about retribution
later?
[/quote]
I'm not sure I saw Chris so much as a toughie as just pissed
off. If I'd nearly had a wreck because someone was watching
their phone instead of the road, I would have been upset as
well. We'll probably never know for sure, because it really
came down to how much effort Chris put into tracking David down,
and what his intent was once he found them.
However, if you look back, I had both the fighers facing the
walls, and I had those who'd seen it start raise their hands,
then I talked to them later, so Chris has no idea who, if
anyone, said anything.
#Post#: 5004--------------------------------------------------
Re: School Trouble
By: Jack Date: April 9, 2018, 4:30 am
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This actually happened two weeks ago on my birthday. Things
were busy, and I wasn't able to complete it. Rather than
writing it in a file, I kept a page here open, and when my
computer re-started, it dumped it. I'm going to do it again,
but this will be the shorter version.
Roger Brown was a kid I had in a couple of my seminars the last
couple of years - one on comics and one on sci-fi/fantasy, if I
remember correctly. He's in 9th grade now. The past couple of
years, he was small and cute. Today, he's tall, awkward, and
has more than a couple of pimples, with braces to top off the
entire mess. He's still cute(ish), but in a pretty geeky way.
I was leaving a bit late on that day. I had a lunch date and
time to kill, so I made sure everything was set up for the next
day. As I was walking to the office, I passed Roger, who didn't
have a hall pass. I stopped to check, and not only did he have
a good excuse, but he was about 15 minutes late for class and
going the wrong direction. Since he was obviously trying to
come up with an answer, I thought we could settle it in the
office. Of course, he walked along like we were going to his
execution (which we both knew we probably were, since both of us
must have been pretty sure he was going to get the hot seat).
Mr. P was busy, but only with paper work, so he assured us right
in.
While age and growth seem to have helped with the issue, Roger
attends BCA because of ADHD issues, along with a couple of other
things (I know he used to have anxiety issues). While Mr. P
tries to take those things into consideration, Roger's been a
student since he was 9, and he's made quite a few trips to the
office in those five years, including a couple where his father
was called. And yes, that apparently had the same result it
does when I'm called in.
Roger was basically admitting he'd screwed up and begging to
just be paddled and sent back to class. Mr. P wanted to know
why he was out of class, and what he'd been doing, and was
intending to call Roger's dad if answers weren't forthcoming.
The thing is, while you could see that Roger was really
stressed, it also became obvious to me (who was standing back
and observing), that he was pretty embarrassed. I interrupted
to ask Roger if he'd been sick. I know some boys can be very
embarrassed by bodily functions, and I thought maybe he'd had a
stomach problem, or even just a problematic, or even just messy,
bowel movement.
He said no to that, but admitted he was embarrassed. He asked
if he could please not say it in front of 'everyone'. Mr. P
went to make some copies, and Roger explained to me while we
were alone.
When Mr. P returned, I told him that Roger hadn't been up to
anything notorious, and I thought he'd already learned his
lesson, and we could let him off with a firm, but cursory,
reminder of what happens when we don't follow the rules. Mr. P
took my lead. While Roger was lowering his pants and getting
into position, I selected the 8th grade paddle (Roger is
awkward, geeky, and skinny!), and Mr. P and I negotiated five
swats (I would have gone for four, but I've turned down the VP
role). He was wearing Hanes boxers in a plaid pattern - can't
even remember the colors now, just that it was one of the packs
you always see in the boys department right now.
For the record, there is a huge difference between four swats
and five. Consider this
[center]
HTML https://s17.postimg.org/9qobs32lb/10x10.gif[/center]
Center a boy's rear on the graph, with the vertical line lining
up with the crack, and the horizontal cutting across the fullest
slope of the bottom. His back would be above the graph and his
legs below it. Now, a four swat paddling, using an oval paddle
like Mr. P prefers, you place one swat in each quadrant. Of
course, especially depending on which paddle and the size of the
bottom, there's going to be some overlap, but mostly each swat
smacks fresh territory. With five, where do you put the fifth
swat?
I put it right in the center, right in the middle of the area
that's already sore and tender.
Roger took it pretty well. I might not have thought this was
the crime of the century, but he'd definitely broken school
rules, and he really was getting off lightly. He was quiet for
the first two, yelped for the third and fourth, and howled at
the last one. He wasn't sobbing (much - there might have been a
hitched breath or two), but he did have to swipe at his eyes
before rubbing his rear and pulling his pants into place.
"Mr. Wells thought you deserved some consideration this time,
Roger, but I'm about to text your teacher and let him know
you're on the way. If you don't go straight there, you'll be
back here and in ISS until your father arrives, understand?"
"Yes, sir. I will. I'm really sorry."
He was also stumbling over his words trying to make himself
clear while tucking in his shirt, but he got it done and got
gone.
"So, what was it?" Mr. P asked after the boy was gone.
"I thought it was private," I said jokingly.
"No, I let him tell you privately," he responded, clearly
waiting for his answer.
"Well, you have to understand that sometimes his parents check
his phone - often when he's not right there. Last night, one of
them must have taken it into the living room, then forgot to put
it back. When one of them heard his alarm, it had apparently
rang and snoozed several times, so when they woke him, he was
running pretty late."
"What does that have to do with skipping class?"
"Well, he had time to clean up and eat and still get here on
time, but there were other things he wasn't able to take care
of," I said suggestively.
Mr. P is usually pretty quick on the uptake, but he must have
been a bit dense that morning. He just stared at me.
"He was late for class, because he was too distracted to
concentrate."
He still stared.
"He was in the boys' room, masturbating."
Mr. P looked shocked.
"And you thought we should let him off easy for that?" he
demanded.
"C'mon," I replied. "it's a natural impulse, not something
dirty. You're the one who talks about how our society
criminalizes things and how we need to be honest. He was
distracted, and he took care of it. He was also punished for
doing it at a time he shouldn't have - he'll learn, or you'll
have a chance to make a bigger deal about it."
"I guess you're right," he answered, though a bit grudgingly.
I'm pretty sure he was more upset at me agreeing that it was
even slightly okay to skip school for that than that Roger had
done it. He still doesn't quite understand that, no matter how
strict I can be, I still see things from the boy's point of view
more often than not.
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