URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Jack's House
  HTML https://jackshouse.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Free Discussion
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 32412--------------------------------------------------
       Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: Plagosus Date: March 4, 2026, 11:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       See here for full details:
  HTML https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/mar/04/manchester-united-jack-fletcher-given-six-match-ban-for-homophobic-slur
       As I gay man I am somewhat conflicted by this.
       The headline says: “Manchester United’s Jack Fletcher given
       six-match ban for homophobic slur.” Later on we read: “Fletcher
       admitted the charge, with both the opponent and the FA
       regulatory commission accepting he did not wish to be
       intentionally homophobic.”
       Several questions arise:
       Is it possible to be unintentionally homophobic?
       The words uttered were “gay boy”. While Jack was clearly not
       offering a compliment, the words are not intrinsically
       homophobic. Can context make them homophobic?
       If the society you live in accepts that it is fine to be gay can
       asserting that someone is gay ever be a slur?
       I am of course happy for the footballing authorities to take
       affirmative action against homophobia, but I cannot help feeling
       that the lengthy ban has been given not only to send a message
       to footballers but also to wave a flag indicating that something
       is being done to tackle homophobia.
       #Post#: 32413--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: PJ Franklin Date: March 4, 2026, 3:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The match referree's judgement was that Fletcher's  "gay boy"
       was both intentional and a slur. And I agree with that. Mr.
       Fletcher was forced by his
       employer, Manchester foorball club to issue an apology to the
       press, the content of which to me is not at all credible, but it
       will have to suffice. The suspension
       and fine are nothing compared to the vast amount of money
       Manchester pays him to kick footballs, not slur other players on
       the pitch. So, then there's the problem
       of why Manchester, or for that matter, any professional sports
       club on any continent (or most anyway) care at all. And that
       boils down to public relations. I doubt
       Mr. Fletcher has learned anything except maybe that pissing off
       one's source of enourmous income is probably not in his best
       interests. I am equally as sure that
       his slurring is not going to stop privately if not in public. Am
       I cynical about this issue, oh yes, I am.
       PJ
       #Post#: 32437--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: Plagosus Date: March 7, 2026, 12:42 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If you Google "homophobic slur" the AI Overview comes up with
       the following: "A homophobic slur is a derogatory, insulting
       word or phrase used to degrade, marginalize, or express hatred
       toward individuals based on their real or perceived sexual
       orientation, typically targeting gay, lesbian, or bisexual
       people."
       If we use that definition we can ask two questions:
       · Is "gay boy" a derogatory, insulting word or phrase?
       · Did the footballer use the phrase to degrade, marginalize, or
       express hatred towards to gay people?
       ​There are three meanings of "gay" we can consider:
       ​· Cheerful and carefree. (Positive)
       · Homosexual. (Neutral)
       ​· A slang word meaning something like "definitely not
       cool". (Negative)
       ​I think we can safely say that the first definition was
       not in the footballer's mind.
       As to the second, possibly. What reason would the footballer
       have had though to literally suggest in the middle of a football
       match that another footballer was gay? It is of course not quite
       that simple. The footballer may entertain the idea that being is
       on a par with being a cheat, liar or fraud. If you say someone
       is a cheat, liar or fraud that is a slur. Asserting someone is
       gay ought not to be a slur if you consider there is nothing
       wrong with being gay, but what if you consider calling some is
       gay to be an insult? These days any sensible famous straight
       person called gay will shrug it off asserting s/he does not have
       a problem with being called gay. If they sued for libel they
       would be taken to task by the gay community.
       As to the third, see here
  HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay#Generalized_pejorative_use<br
       />which indicates a lack of agreement on how the pejorative use
       should be regarded.
       Only those who know the footballer will have any idea what his
       intention was. The fact that those imposing the penalty
       considered he did not wish to be intentionally homophobic
       suggests they considered the third definition came into play. I
       do though have a bit of a problem with the concept of
       "unintentional homophobia". It strikes me as approaching a
       contradiction in terms like "unintentional violence". In any
       event, they seem to have accepted that there was no intention to
       degrade, marginalize, or express hatred towards gay people,
       which, if the definition quoted above is accepted, means there
       was no homophobic slur.
       #Post#: 32438--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: Zyngaru Date: March 7, 2026, 2:10 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I love these thought-provoking debates.  The only person who
       would know for certain if the footballer's phrase was actually a
       slur or not would be the footballer, because it has to do with
       intent, not necessarily the words said.
       I thought gay was the proper way to address someone who is
       homosexual.  Evidently it is not.
       Now here in America if the player of whatever sport were to be
       Black.  My term instead of African-American.  I hate hyphenated
       nationality labels.  Either you are African or you are America.
       Make a choice.  BUT if the player had been Black and you said
       "BOY", especially here in the southern United States you would
       probably have found yourself in a fight.  Calling a Black person
       "Boy" is considered racist.  Yet calling a white person Cracker
       is not racist?  HMMMMM.
       Everyone here knows I am Asexual, so I have to base my comments
       on what I see from the outside looking in.
       I do know that within groups there is a lot of liberty taken
       with how people within their group address each other, without
       offense taken.  Where if someone from outside that group said
       exactly the same thing in the same tone and everything, it would
       be offensive and could lead to fisticuffs.
       So, in my opinion, unless it was obvious that this footballer
       was speaking with the obvious intention to using a slur, then I
       would take it is a no-nothing and move on.
       #Post#: 32443--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: afinch Date: March 9, 2026, 6:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think the world has truly gone insane.  If anybody calls
       someone else a m_therf__ker, especially if that person happens
       to be Eddie Murphy, that is a compliment.  The use of the N word
       in rap songs is constant and AOK, but people who are hysterical
       about "gay boy" also want to have To Kill a Mockingbird and
       Huckleberry Finn rewritten to suit their current tender
       sensibilities.
       Sondheim wrote a song in 1971 called "You Could Drive a Person
       Crazy"--it had a lyric, sung by three women who are furious that
       the protagonist won't commit to them,  which went:
       "I could understand a person
       If it's not a person's bag
       I could understand a person
       If a person was a fag..."
       Subsequently changed to a drag.   Then to  "If he's set to go
       away...if he actually was gay."  And then with a female Bobbie,
       because diversity...if "she's set to go away."  Then "If she
       said to go away..." which makes no sense at all to the context
       of the song.  It's all very silly, like the kerfluffle over
       Timothee Chalamet's comments about opera and ballet this
       weekend. I disagree with him, but with the world burning around
       us, it is hardly a subject I think should take up much of any of
       our bandwidth, including a friend who is a performance manager
       at the Metropolitan Opera.
       #Post#: 32447--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: PJ Franklin Date: March 10, 2026, 6:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Zyngaru link=topic=3690.msg32438#msg32438
       date=1772914250] I thought gay was the proper way to address
       someone who is homosexual.  Evidently it is not. [/quote]
       It is the proper way. I don't understand where in the thread it
       is said that it is not. Oh well!  :) ... but more than just
       that. It was not that the phrase "gay boy" was said, it was
       clearly the derogatory tone it was said in that made the
       referree take notice, nothing else in my mind.
       [quote author=afinch link=topic=3690.msg32443#msg32443
       date=1773099624] It's all very silly, like the kerfluffle over
       Timothee Chalamet's comments about opera and ballet this
       weekend.
       [/quote]
       So, here are his comments: In a conversation with Matthew
       McConaughey, Chalamet said, "I don't want to be working in
       ballet, or opera, or things where it's like, 'Hey, keep this
       thing alive, even though like no one cares about this anymore.'
       All respect to all the ballet and opera people out there". There
       are many other ways dear Timothee could have said that he
       chooses not to engage in themes that involve ballet or opera.
       Personally I don't care about opera either, but I love ballet. I
       can easily imagine that in upcoming awards shows that writers
       are going to capitalize on his comments in some sort of sketch
       comedy in involving him as a way to apologize. Maybe he sings
       opera while a ballet troop around him are prancing about.
       PJ
       #Post#: 32448--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Footballer banned for homophobic slur
       By: Plagosus Date: March 10, 2026, 12:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=PJ Franklin link=topic=3690.msg32447#msg32447
       date=1773143033]It was not that the phrase "gay boy" was said,
       it was clearly the derogatory tone it was said in that made the
       referree take notice, nothing else in my mind.[/quote]
       &#8203;As I said above, I think we can safely say that the first
       definition (cheerful and carefree) was not in the footballer's
       mind.
       "You're a cheat" is derogatory but not homophobic.
       The question is in what circumstances can "You're a gay boy",
       which is not intrinsically derogatory or homophobic, be
       considered either.
       *****************************************************