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#Post#: 30836--------------------------------------------------
Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Zyngaru Date: April 23, 2025, 7:53 am
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Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
I have noticed when reading answers to BOTD that some people
lean towards one of these reasons more than another for reasons
to spank.
I have read that the boy has already learned his lesson, so a
spanking wouldn't do him any good. Or. The boy needs a
spanking to clear his conscience. Or. This boy needs to be
punished. He is getting a spanking.
So, my question is it proper when boy steals not to spank him as
punishment, just because he feels so guilty for stealing?
When I read comments, it sounds like some have views where
punishment spankings are not as important as a learning spanking
or a need spanking.
So, I am curious as to how you decide what is important when
deciding when a boy needs to be spanked vs, when a boy gets
spanked to learn a lesson, or when a boy is spanked as
punishment. Why do you drop some reasons for spanking over
others?
Look back at a few BOTD's and you will understand my confusion
as to which reason if any hold prevalence over the others.
Should a boy not be punished if he shows remorse, because he has
already learned his lesson by how he feels?
Just being curious.
#Post#: 30839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Jack Date: April 23, 2025, 5:04 pm
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There's no right answer to this. Each person will have their
own belief, and for most of us, it will vary with the situation
and even the boy involved.
Spanking does not teach lessons. To me, it stresses that bad
actions have bad consequences. I guess that means I come down
more on the punishment side. The thing is, I've caught boys
shoplifting and they all swear that they learned their lesson.
Now, if I just say 'okay, as long as you learned', what's the
reason lesson they learned? I think spankings make an
impression on a boy, but they're not as harsh as a long term
grounding, and certainly not as bad as adults face (divorce,
being fired, prison...).
I think that the 'need' is a separate issue more often than not.
I have known boys and young men who need the catharsis of a
spanking, sometimes from guilt, and sometimes just from anxiety
and stress.
#Post#: 30841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: afinch Date: April 23, 2025, 5:52 pm
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I agree with Jack that it depends on the boy.
#Post#: 30847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: David M. Katz Date: April 24, 2025, 8:48 am
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I agree with Kier who agrees with Jack.
Each boy and circumstance has to be evaluated at the time.
#Post#: 30848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Zyngaru Date: April 24, 2025, 9:18 am
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=3463.msg30839#msg30839
date=1745445896]
There's no right answer to this. Each person will have their
own belief, and for most of us, it will vary with the situation
and even the boy involved.
Spanking does not teach lessons. To me, it stresses that bad
actions have bad consequences. I guess that means I come down
more on the punishment side. The thing is, I've caught boys
shoplifting and they all swear that they learned their lesson.
Now, if I just say 'okay, as long as you learned', what's the
reason lesson they learned? I think spankings make an
impression on a boy, but they're not as harsh as a long term
grounding, and certainly not as bad as adults face (divorce,
being fired, prison...).
I think that the 'need' is a separate issue more often than not.
I have known boys and young men who need the catharsis of a
spanking, sometimes from guilt, and sometimes just from anxiety
and stress.
[/quote]
Since it seems this is a Jack agreement topic, then I am
assuming that is why on BOTD's there is an inconsistency as to
when and why boys are spanked. Each one is an individual. So,
this one boy may be spanked for stealing and this other one will
be lectured instead, and yet another one will be comforted
because he shows remorse. So, a crime doesn't always mean
punishment. That does reflect current social norms. Thanks for
your comments.
#Post#: 30849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: afinch Date: April 24, 2025, 3:14 pm
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Let me ask you a question via a hypothetical, Z. Boy is
forbidden from riding his bike for a week. He takes it anyway,
and falls off while riding, breaking his arm. That was direct,
dangerous, deliberate disobedience. Will spanking him when he
gets home from having his arm set and put in a cast serve any
purpose?
#Post#: 30853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Jack Date: April 24, 2025, 5:03 pm
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[quote author=Zyngaru link=topic=3463.msg30848#msg30848
date=1745504307]
That does reflect current social norms.
[/quote]
Not particularly. Look at the story of the prodigal son. One
has to consider a lot of factors when making a decision. As a
matter of fact, it seems to me we see less of that these days,
what with zero tolerance rules and similar.
#Post#: 30856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Zyngaru Date: April 24, 2025, 5:15 pm
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[quote author=afinch link=topic=3463.msg30849#msg30849
date=1745525656]
Let me ask you a question via a hypothetical, Z. Boy is
forbidden from riding his bike for a week. He takes it anyway,
and falls off while riding, breaking his arm. That was direct,
dangerous, deliberate disobedience. Will spanking him when he
gets home from having his arm set and put in a cast serve any
purpose?
[/quote]
The answer to that question comes from a further hypothetical.
If he hadn't broken his arm, would being spanked for direct
disobedience serve any purpose?
I personally believe that direct disobedience requires
punishment. It doesn't have to come in the form of a spanking,
it could be grounding, restrictions, extra chores, and etc. But
to allow direct disobedience to prevail is undermining
authority.
In the original hypothetical of a broken arm as possibly being
punishment enough. The idea of reaping what you sow, or
consequences of actions in the broken arm as penalty of
disobedient actions doesn't hold water. It is true that if he
hadn't disobeyed, he probably wouldn't have gotten his arm
broke, but it in no way is punishment for the original
disobedience.
A burglar robs your house, but on his way home he wrecks his
car. Should his theft be forgotten because he wrecked his car?
Does wrecking his car do anything to change his thieving
behavior?
Does the boy breaking his arm do anything to change his
disobedient behavior? Or does it tell the boy he needs to learn
how to ride his bike better?
I know there is great pain in breaking a bone. I have never
broken anything, but I have been around kids who have. The pain
is horrible for the short term and then it is replaced by what
could be considered hero worship as every kid and many adults
want to sign the cast. The broken arm becomes the subject of
tales of bravery and honor over time.
There are not many spankings for disobedience that become tales
of bravery or honor. Tales of warning maybe. But not something
a boy goes to school bragging about.
I am stopping here because I started off into the weeds.
Simple answer to your question. The boy needs to be punished in
some way that brings his disobedience into the forefront. He
needs to know disobedience is not allowed. To allow his broken
arm to erase his disobedience isn't teaching the boy anything,
but that with the right circumstances he can get away with
anything.
I know this is the way of thinking from the 50's and 60's and
not of the new millennia, but I am a child of the 50's.
#Post#: 30857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Learn a lesson vs Need vs Punishment
By: Zyngaru Date: April 24, 2025, 5:30 pm
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=3463.msg30853#msg30853
date=1745532190]
[quote author=Zyngaru link=topic=3463.msg30848#msg30848
date=1745504307]
That does reflect current social norms.
[/quote]
Not particularly. Look at the story of the prodigal son. One
has to consider a lot of factors when making a decision. As a
matter of fact, it seems to me we see less of that these days,
what with zero tolerance rules and similar.
[/quote]
Unless I am misunderstanding the parable of the Prodigal son, he
was well within his rights to take his inheritance and leave.
He did not break any rules. When he returned, he did not beg to
be reinstated into the family. No, he took responsibility for
his failure and begged to be allowed to return as a servant, a
slave. The father chose to show mercy. He rejoiced at the
return of his son. What the father did not do, was replace his
son's inheritance.
I do not believe in zero tolerance. There is a difference
between zero tolerance and accepting responsibility for your
actions. It is not one or the other. There is grey in our
lives. Mercy, grace and forgiveness are all in play or should
be with everyone. At the same time there needs to be punishment
for wrongdoing. The same person who gave us the parable of the
Prodigal son also gave us the parable of reaping and sowing.
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