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#Post#: 28951--------------------------------------------------
Icons as spoilers
By: Plagosus Date: May 12, 2024, 6:44 pm
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I refer forum members to this thread on the MMSA forum:
HTML https://newforum.malespank.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9695&p=186352#p186352.<br
/>Does P J Franklin have a point or am I losing the plot?
Whatever the case, what are members' opinions on icons as
spoilers?
#Post#: 28952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Zyngaru Date: May 12, 2024, 10:19 pm
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Hi Plag,
I wasn't going to say anything here since I answered on the MMSA
Forum. I want you to know that I totally respect your question
and thoughts on the issue. I even understand your side of the
issue. It makes logical sense to refrain from showing an icon
that could spoil the surprise of the story. I get it.
That doesn't change my opinion on the need for relative icons to
be posted for a story even if it has the chance of being a
spoiler.
This is my reason for having this opinion.
The author is American. He is writing a story taking place in a
normal American School that allows Corporal Punishment. Yes,
they still exist. In the story the protagonist has already been
paddled twice. Once by the gym teacher in the locker room and
once by the principal in his office and neither paddling curbed
the protagonist's behavior. In the final epic spanking scene
of the story, the principal has the protagonist drop his
trousers and underpants to the floor and bend over his desk.
The boy smirks knowing that the principal can't do anything to
him with his paddle. Then the Principal pulls out a British
School Cane to use on the boy and he shrinks in fear of what the
cane might do to him. He is right to be fearful because the
principal cuts his behind six times with the Cane, leaving
wicked stripes. The boy afterward changes his ways and lives
happily ever after. Great surprise in the story, because no
American reader would ever think that an American Principal in
an American School would use a British Cane on an American
Student.
Because no American reader would ever expect a British Cane to
be used in an American school it is a perfect Surprise. The
author wants to keep it a surprise right up until the Epic
Caning scene, so he doesn't want a cane icon displayed. The
icon would be a spoiler for the story. It would be a logical
request by the author to not have the cane icon displayed.
The problem is, along comes a reader such as me. I don't read
any story that has caning in it. It's a personal thing with me.
I despise the cane as a means of disciplining anyone. So, how
am I going to react when I get to that epic scene of the caning?
There isn't supposed to be any cane in an American School
story, yet there it is, and it is cutting a boy that should
never be caned. I would be mad. Very Mad. It is not the kind
of surprise I would be happy with. If the icon where there I
would have passed on reading the story. But no icon, so I think
I am reading a typical American School story and get
Blind-Sided.
That is why I am for using the icons. That is why I am against
an author choosing whether an icon should be left off. I
totally understand he wants to surprise the reader. I
understand the motivation.
But is it right to blind-side a reader into reading something
they absolutely abhor?
#Post#: 28953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: ivor Date: May 13, 2024, 2:53 am
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I'm with Plag on this. Having icons displayed can destroy the
element of surprise that an author has striven hard to create.
I can see Zyn's viewpoint, but the example he gives is one of
personal choice. If he comes across something he abhors in a
story he can simply stop reading in the same way as you can
switch off a TV or radio if it broadcasts something you don't
wish to hear.
I won't bother to express my view about this on MMSA because I
know it would be a waste of time. The 'powers that be' have made
a policy and, as with other things in the past, they are not for
turning.
#Post#: 28956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Zyngaru Date: May 13, 2024, 8:27 am
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[quote author=ivor link=topic=3190.msg28953#msg28953
date=1715586827]
I'm with Plag on this. Having icons displayed can destroy the
element of surprise that an author has striven hard to create.
I can see Zyn's viewpoint, but the example he gives is one of
personal choice. If he comes across something he abhors in a
story he can simply stop reading in the same way as you can
switch off a TV or radio if it broadcasts something you don't
wish to hear.
I won't bother to express my view about this on MMSA because I
know it would be a waste of time. The 'powers that be' have made
a policy and, as with other things in the past, they are not for
turning.
[/quote]
Ivor. Like Plag, I respect your viewpoint and understand it. I
have written stories with surprise elements in them.
As for my view being one of personal choice. All views are from
one's personal choice. We read what we read because of our
personal choice. As for being able to just stop reading a story
when we find something we don't like in it. I do that
frequently. But it is very frustrating when I am enjoying a
story and then come across an element in it that I personally
abhor and have to stop reading the story because of it. It is
frustrating abandoning a very good story which I normally would
not have even started reading had the icon been in place.
It makes me feel like I have been played for the fool. Like the
author thinks he knows better than me what I really like. He
will sneak this into his story and show me that I actually do
like what I just think I don't like.
Now. I just thought about this idea, so I haven't fleshed it
out in my mind, but I think I would be okay if an author was
able to request that "NO icons" be applied to their stories.
Maybe just a "Question Mark" where the icons would normally be.
But that would have to apply to all of their stories, not just
select ones. Then readers would understand that when they
choose that author's stories, they will be surprised all the
time by whatever the content is in it.
#Post#: 28966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Jack Date: May 14, 2024, 5:35 pm
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I have submitted my thoughts on the MMSA forum, both in that
original thread that touched on the issue and on the new one, so
I"m just going to respond to Zyngaru.
As an author who does write occasional stories with those
twists, and who has had them occasionally spoiled by those
icons, my feeling is - this isn't real life, this isn't even a
movie where you have to see something you don't write. This
isn't a food allergy, and it's not going to kill you to be
exposed to something you normally dislike in written form.
I do understand that some readers might want to actively avoid
something, but I also feel like an author has a right to present
his work in a certain form if that's his choice. I guess that
means one could argue it comes down to Flagellant's belief, but
even then, is it better for an author to just not submit his
work because he doesn't like that policy, or for a reader to
risk occasionally seeing something he might dislike?
#Post#: 28967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Plagosus Date: May 14, 2024, 6:17 pm
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Jack: Thank you for your contribution to the new thread. I could
not see your contribution to the old thread.
#Post#: 29017--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: db105 Date: May 26, 2024, 7:27 pm
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The purpose of the icons is to help the reader find the stories
he wants to read and avoid the stories he doesn't want to read.
For that, they give some basic information about the contents of
the story, and in some cases that might spoil a twist that the
author would prefer to keep hidden.
I'd say that this kind of situation happens outside spanking
stories too. For example, let's say I write a ghost story where
initially it doesn't seem to be a ghost story, but in a final
twist it is revealed that it is. The writer might, quite
naturally, not want the reader to know in advance that it is a
ghost story. But then, the story is published in an anthology of
ghost stories, and that way fans of ghost stories that would
otherwise never find the story can read it. People who hate
stories with supernatural elements may avoid it. Yes, having the
story in an anthology of supernatural fiction can be a spoiler,
but most people tend to accept that kind of thing as a price to
be paid for the convenience of being able to find the stories
you like.
If a reader doesn't want to pay that price, then he has the
option to disable the icons. The author, on the other hand,
doesn't have the option to disable the icons in his stories, and
I can see how it can be frustrating that the icons will reveal
the twist in your story that it's the son spanking the father
and not the other way around. But then again, if the icon is
omitted, fans of role-reversal scenarios will probably not find
it.
All in all, I think it's a price that can reluctantly be paid
for the service it provides. Trust your readers to decide if
avoiding spoilers is so important to them.
After all, it's an archive of spanking stories (itself a spoiler
that the stories will contain spanking). Our interest in
spanking is the point, more than our enjoyment of plot twists
being completely unexpected.
#Post#: 29018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Plagosus Date: May 27, 2024, 5:22 am
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[quote author=db105 link=topic=3190.msg29017#msg29017
date=1716769655]After all, it's an archive of spanking stories
(itself a spoiler that the stories will contain spanking). Our
interest in spanking is the point, more than our enjoyment of
plot twists being completely unexpected.[/quote]
While a story has to contain a spanking or be about spanking,
that does not prevent it also being, for example, a detective
story. No icon is going to give away whodunnit. Most plot twists
and surprise endings are not going to be given away by icons.
Icons are only going to be spoilers in a very limited number of
cases.
There is a film, I do not recall its name, where a character is
dead but neither he nor the audience know it until near the end.
We do not know it is a ghost story until we know the character
is a ghost. A broadcasting company could put on a series of
ghost films and include the film which would, at the very least,
alert the viewer that there was going to be at least one ghost
and the revelation would not be a surprise. If the film was not
included people may protest at its exclusion.
There is a difference between a story where it is clear at the
outset that it is fantasy and one where it only becomes apparent
later. If the story is well written so that the reader does not
suspect anything unusual is going on and when the truth is
revealed he does not feel he has been cheated, then any
indication that the story is fantasy is an unwanted spoiler. The
question then is: Which is to take precedence, having a strict
icon policy or allowing the author to surprise the reader?
#Post#: 29023--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: Emlyn Morgan Date: May 27, 2024, 4:04 pm
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Do you know, I almost never read any stories in mmsa. In fact I
read very little fiction of any sort.
If I did look at a recommended story in mmsa, it would have to
be short, 20gb at most, and have all the solid stars and
shields. Then I look at the little pictograms hoping to rule
out the need to read the thing.
But if all that failed to deter me, I usually manage only a few
sentences before I lose interest.
I just don't like fiction.
#Post#: 29024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Icons as spoilers
By: David M. Katz Date: May 27, 2024, 4:38 pm
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This discussion should be moot. Flag has addressed this.
Back in February of 2017, I attempted to leave off icons on a
story to prevent spoiling a twist in the plot. This is from the
reviewer's forum. I do not think it violates any
confidentiality to post that excerpt from reviewers forum here:
flagellant » 26 Feb 2017 20:30
AAARRGH!
This concept of spoilers in the classification is ridiculous.
And there is research evidence that knowing the outcome of a
story ADDS to the enjoyment experience of reading it more than
having the surprise of not knowing.
Over-ruled!
Flag was not happy with me or the idea then and has restated all
along that he wants all stories tagged properly irrespective of
what anyone else thinks. It is his site so why do we continue
to discuss these things?
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