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#Post#: 5856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 23, 2018, 4:23 am
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I did have a talk with Liam last night. I explained to him that
it can be easier to discuss (as opposed to argue about)
something when you're not in the heat of the moment. I also
asked him to listen to me while I made my points, then I would
listen to him, which he agreed to do.
I basically had two points to make. The first is that he had
repeatedly done the same thing over a period of two or three
months. Each time he'd had a curfew violation, and it seemed
like every time was because he had made spontaneous deviations
from his plans. I reminded him that attendance issues were the
main reason I've had to fire people over the years as an
employer, and so making sure the boys are on time is something I
consider very important.
My second point was that my mom was very over the top at
grounding, and I always hated it and didn't want to do that to
my kids. I felt like what we were doing - requiring him to plan
ahead of time and stick to it - was not only better than just
punishing him, but it was also an attempt to help him correct a
problem I saw developing. I also pointed out that what I really
want to see from him is that he can be responsible, and while
it's not going to happen in one week or anything, that's what he
needs to do to get me to ease up on him.
I finished that part by telling him basically what I said above.
'If you're worried about what your friends think of you having
to stick to a schedule', just tell your friends your dad's being
a hardass, and it's what you have to do if you don't want to
lose the car or actually be grounded.' I also reminded him that
I've known a number of his friends longer than I've known him
(several of them are Van's classmates or friends of both of
them), and I know at least three of them are still subject to CP
at home - at least technically, if not realistically, and I know
most of his friends still get grounded, so I'm sure they'd
understand his dad being a hardass (remember - almost all his
friends attend BCA).
I gave him a chance to talk, but he didn't seem to want to argue
with me. I'm hoping that meant he actually understood and
accepted, if not agreed with, the points I was making. He did
ask a few questions. Our big problem last weekend was that he
was trying to make plans while I was trying to get everyone out
the door for Deadpool 2. I assured him that, if he came to me
on a regular Friday, or if he had friends over Saturday night,
and they wanted to do something when I wasn't trying to get
everyone ready to leave, make sure Chris and Terri were ready to
watch the younger kids, and talk to a couple of parents who were
letting me take their kids to an R-rated movie, then I would be
more than willing to work with him.
In return, I told him how angry I'd been with him, because he
was throwing another issue with a big serving of drama up while
I was extremely busy, and I had thought he was mature enough to
have seen what was going on and show some understanding. I
think that dig hurt him a bit, which I honestly meant to do.
Being 'mature' is very important to teens. While I try not to
play the card often, sometimes the best way to make a point is
to let them know when and why they weren't acting mature. The
important thing, though (at least to me) is for him to
understand why I reacted like I did.
I don't expect him to be happy with what's going on, since I am
limiting his freedom, no matter what the reasons, and the one
thing you can say is that a grounding would have been over more
quickly. If he doesn't give me any trouble this upcoming
weekend, I will probably loosen things up for graduation
weekend, and if he does well that weekend, then I will sit down
with him and work up a timetable for him to earn back some
freedoms.
We'll see how it goes.
#Post#: 5860--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Adric Date: May 23, 2018, 10:58 am
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=10.msg5856#msg5856
date=1527067391]
We'll see how it goes.
[/quote]
I hope it goes well. This restriction seems pretty onerous to
me. I hope Liam will be able to handle it without further
crises.
#Post#: 5861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 23, 2018, 11:20 am
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[quote author=Adric link=topic=10.msg5860#msg5860
date=1527091132]
[quote author=Jack link=topic=10.msg5856#msg5856
date=1527067391]
We'll see how it goes.
[/quote]
I hope it goes well. This restriction seems pretty onerous to
me. I hope Liam will be able to handle it without further
crises.
[/quote]
I'm not sure how 'you can't be home on time, so you need to make
plans ahead of time and stick to them' is onerous. I guess I
just could have grounded him and not let him drive for a couple
of weeks, but I don't feel like that would have taught a lesson.
Maybe I'm wrong.
#Post#: 5863--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Zyngaru Date: May 23, 2018, 1:05 pm
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=10.msg5861#msg5861
date=1527092422]
[quote author=Adric link=topic=10.msg5860#msg5860
date=1527091132]
[quote author=Jack link=topic=10.msg5856#msg5856
date=1527067391]
We'll see how it goes.
[/quote]
I hope it goes well. This restriction seems pretty onerous to
me. I hope Liam will be able to handle it without further
crises.
[/quote]
I'm not sure how 'you can't be home on time, so you need to make
plans ahead of time and stick to them' is onerous. I guess I
just could have grounded him and not let him drive for a couple
of weeks, but I don't feel like that would have taught a lesson.
Maybe I'm wrong.
[/quote]
No. I don't consider your method wrong. The goal is to get
Liam to plan ahead and be on time. This method attempts to
teach both.
A straight up grounding, doesn't teach any lesson, it only
punishes bad behavior. Sometimes grounding is a lesson, but not
always the best lesson. I personally like this approach with
Liam. He still gets to go out and test his ability to keep to a
schedule and get home on time. Being spontaneous doesn't work
when others are depending on you to be someplace at a particular
time.
#Post#: 5882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 24, 2018, 5:30 am
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I was able to speak briefly with Liam's therapist yesterday,
after their session.
He says that, while he can see this being very irritating, he
considers it positive. As I'd suspected, he thinks Liam is just
testing the boundaries, because he feels secure. He also
doesn't think Liam needs more frequent sessions. Liam does
still have some anger issues because of the loss of his parents,
but the therapist says he's progressing very well with them. He
also said Liam and I are going to clash a lot, both because he
has a certain level of resentment over needing me (or any adult)
to step in and take care of his little brothers, which he still
sees as his job.
That made me worry that I'd made a mistake in trying to get Liam
to do less supervising of them, but the therapist says that was
fine and a good idea, since Liam was in no way ready for it,
though he did suggest I should try using Liam to help out with
the younger boys (all of them, not just his bio brothers) when I
need it. I think I'd already been doing that, but I'm going to
make a bigger point of it.
He also doesn't disagree with how I'm handling Liam's lateness.
While he doesn't tell me much detail about their sessions, which
I understand and respect, he did tell me that Liam is at least
as much frustrated with himself over this issue as he with me
and the restrictions. He (the therapist, that is) did suggest
that I sit down with Liam and try to come up with a few definite
goals for him to reach, and maybe give him a bit more freedom
each time he reaches them. I didn't have time to do that last
night, and I did want to think about it a bit. I'm going to try
to sit down with him this evening and ask him for his thoughts
on doing that, how we should set them up, and what the goals
should be.
#Post#: 5885--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Adric Date: May 24, 2018, 8:22 am
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[quote author=Jack link=topic=10.msg5882#msg5882
date=1527157835]
He (the therapist, that is) did suggest that I sit down with
Liam and try to come up with a few definite goals for him to
reach, and maybe give him a bit more freedom each time he
reaches them.[/quote]
I agree with that suggestion. It seems that the biggest problem
with a restriction of indefinite duration is that it could seem
that there is no well defined path back to normal treatment.
Discussing it and defining a definite path back to normal
(whatever that is) should go a long way toward relieving the
frustration of being treated differently with no end in sight.
#Post#: 5887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 24, 2018, 10:49 am
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I think part of the problem with this right now is that I do NOT
see this as a restriction. To me, this is a case where a
problem continued after we tried basic punitive measures, and
they just didn't seem to work, so we're trying another approach
to solve the problem.
I can see how someone might see it as a restriction or a
punishment, but to me, this is like the government taking away
someone's driver's license after repeated tickets. It's not
done to punish someone, but because they can't use the freedom
they were given safely. I am going to take the therapist's
advice because I want to encourage Liam to work on correcting a
problem, not because I feel he's being punished too harshly.
#Post#: 5900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: David M. Katz Date: May 24, 2018, 10:53 pm
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Do you have any more insight as to why Liam is "acting out"
right now?
#Post#: 5911--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 25, 2018, 3:17 am
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[quote author=David M. Katz link=topic=10.msg5900#msg5900
date=1527220407]
Do you have any more insight as to why Liam is "acting out"
right now?
[/quote]
Trying to be fair, it's hard to call what Liam is doing as
acting out. He is reacting in what I consider an overdramatic
and somewhat obnoxious way to my current requirements for his
weekend evenings, but there's no other misbehavior to go along
with it.
I honestly believe, and his therapist seems to agree with me,
that this is just a case of 'the honeymoon is over'. Liam is
sure he's home, and that I'm going to do my best to take care of
him and his brothers, so the Sunday clothes are off, and he's
putting his feet on the coffee table.
I do need to make an appointment with his therapist to sit down
and discuss a couple of things, but if he says Liam doesn't need
more regular sessions, I'm going to take his word. However, I
did remember something he told me two or three months ago.
He told me that Liam might be dealing with some anger issues.
At the time, I just didn't see it, so I wasn't too worried about
it, and the therapist admitted it wasn't something Liam had
admitted - it was just based on a couple of things he'd let
slip, or the way he'd phrased a couple of things.
You need to remember that Liam nearly worshiped his first
adopted father - Connor and Curtis' biological father. What
that man passed, it sounds like Liam was pretty devastated and
acted out a lot. Only a couple of years after that, their
mother passed. At the time, Liam was worried about his own
behavior, and he was really worried about the family staying
together. He knew that he couldn't do it, and that they needed
an adult. However, no matter what he 'knew' at that time, it
doesn't change the fact that I basically stepped in and replaced
his first adopted father. It doesn't change the fact that C&C
don't really have any memory of their father, and that they have
pretty much completely accepted me. And, to make matters worse,
Liam and I have basically gotten along, and I think he knows I
treat him basically like any of my other kids, so part of his
anger is probably addressed at himself for 'betraying' his
'real' father with me.
I don't know that that anger is turning up now and making this
situation worse than it has to be. I am going to talk to his
therapist a bit to see if he still thinks that's even an issue,
and if there's anything I can try to do to help the boy out with
it.
#Post#: 5982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Liam Marsh Wells
By: Jack Date: May 27, 2018, 4:44 am
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Just wanted to say that Liam went out last night and had a good
time.
He came to me right after noon, and we sat down and worked his
itinerary out.
He did make some fair points, like having to specify where they
were going to go eat. We decided he could just put restaurant
and a guestimate at the time. He ended up putting who he was
going with, and whose houses he'd be going to to pick them up.
We worked out a time frame, put in a loose guess at for dinner.
He had no idea what they were going to want to do, so we talked
over a few ideas, and decided he could text me once they
decided. Then we looked at how long it would take to get
everyone home, and from that, we figured out what time he needed
to leave, and I suggested he add an extra 15 minutes in case of
emergency.
He asked "What about stopping at Sonic for drinks or something?"
I suggested he just be honest with them. "My dad's giving me a
hard time about curfew lately, and I don't want to loose my car
keys again, so I have to be home on time. The other option is,
leave thirty minutes earlier, and put that on the itinerary.
"We can make it an option, where you can do either. But you
can't stay wherever until 10:30, then go to Sonic for 30
minutes, and still expect to get home on time."
He did text me that they were going to go hand out at Putt Putt
(not much my game room here doesn't have, but some shooting and
racing games they enjoy). They ended up leaving early, because
all of them are brain tired with finals coming up.
When Liam got home, I took him to my office and we pulled up the
ap. We followed his route. The only thing he did that wasn't
on the itinerary was stop for gas. I suggested that first, he
needs to keep better track of how much gas he has; and, second,
that he plan to stop and fill up before he picks up the other
guys, for times when they're not calling it an early night.
That was just one night, and he went pretty much straight to bed
after that, but I think he's feeling a bit more comfortable with
it, now that he sees I'm willing to work with him on it, as long
as he's trying to follow instructions.
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