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#Post#: 11507--------------------------------------------------
Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: vonofterdingen Date: June 8, 2020, 2:31 pm
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Let’s just say that not all aircraft designs work as
expected. This week’s Plane of the Week is such an example. The
idea seems sound, a fighter that uses a large multi-gun turret
rather than forward-facing wing or nose guns. Can’t miss. Well,
it did miss indeed. Was it a complete failure? Perhaps it was;
theory did not translate into good practice in this instance.
From Wikipedia:
During the 1930s, the increasing speed of military aircraft
posed a particular challenge to anti-aircraft defences. Advances
in aircraft design achieved during the 1920s and 1930s had
resulted in a generation of multi-engined monoplane bombers that
were substantially faster than their contemporary single-engined
biplane fighters then in service. The RAF came to believe that
its new generation of turret-armed bombers, such as the Vickers
Wellington, would be capable of readily penetrating enemy
airspace and of defending themselves without any accompanying
fighter escort, but also recognised that the bombers of other
European air forces, such as the Luftwaffe, would similarly be
able to penetrate
During 1935, the concept of a turret-armed defensive fighter
to counter the bomber threat emerged during a time in which the
RAF anticipated having to defend Great Britain against massed
formations of unescorted enemy bombers. In theory, turret-armed
fighters would approach an enemy bomber from below or from the
side and coordinate their fire. The separation of the tasks of
flying the aircraft and firing the guns would allow the pilot to
concentrate on putting the fighter into the best position for
the gunner to engage the enemy. However, manually-traversed
turrets were viewed as having becoming more problematic and
increasingly inadequate to effectively respond to ever-faster
hostile aircraft, thus there was considerable interest in using
a power-augmented turret.
The earlier Hawker Demon biplane had tested the concept with
59 of the fighters, which had been manufactured by Boulton Paul
under a sub-contract, having been equipped with a
hydraulically-powered rear turret, while a number of aircraft
already built were also converted as such. Boulton Paul and its
managing director John Dudley North had gained considerable
experience with defensive turrets from producing several earlier
aircraft, including the Boulton Paul Overstrand bomber, and had
devised a four-gun power-operated turret, the concept and
development work of which would later be a core part of the
Defiant design.
In April 1935, the Air Ministry released Specification
F.9/35, which required a two-seater day and night "turret
fighter" capable of 290 miles per hour (470 km/h) at 15,000 feet
(4,600 m). The aircraft was to feature a clean design,
concentrating its armament within a power-operated turret, and
the accepted performance was to be only slightly beneath that of
other emergent fighter designs of the period, along with a
sufficient fuel capacity to allow it to perform standing
patrols. In particular, the powered turret was to offer
considerable flexibility, possessing both a 360-degree upper
hemisphere field of fire and be able to engage enemy bombers
from a range of quarters, including below the aircraft itself.
Specification F.9/35 had followed the earlier Specification
F.5/33, which had sought a pusher design combined with a
forward-set turret; F.5/33 had been unceremoniously abandoned as
the proposals had offered little in terms of performance gains
over existing fighters, and the corresponding Armstrong
Whitworth AW.34 design which had been ordered was not completed.
In October 1939, No. 264 (Madras Presidency) Squadron was
reformed at RAF Sutton Bridge to operate the Defiant. Initial
training, formal squadron acceptance, and development of tactics
began with other aircraft as it received its first Defiants only
in early December at Martlesham Heath. In February 1940, the
Defiant commenced night fighter training operations; the
squadron tested its tactics against British medium bombers –
Hampdens and Blenheims – and 264's CO flew against Robert
Stanford Tuck in a Spitfire, showing that the Defiant could
defend itself by circling and keeping its speed up. It became
clear during these trials that the Defiant was suited only to
performing bomber-destroyer duties.
By March 1940, 264 Squadron had two flights operational with
Defiants and No. 141 Squadron received its first Defiant. When
the Defiant was first introduced to the public, the RAF put out
a disinformation campaign, stating that the Defiant had 21 guns:
four in the turret, 14 in the wings and three cannon in the
nose. On 12 May 1940, the first operational sortie occurred as a
flight of six Defiants flew with six Spitfires of 66 Squadron
over the English Channel to the coastline in the vicinity of The
Hague, Netherlands; during this flight, a single Ju 88, which
had been in the process of attacking a destroyer, was shot down.
The following day, in a patrol that was a repetition of the
first, Defiants claimed four Junkers Ju 87 Stuka dive bombers,
but were subsequently attacked by a flight of Bf 109Es. The
escorting Spitfires were unable to prevent five of the six
Defiants being shot down by a frontal attack.
During the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Force from
Dunkirk, the squadron was based at RAF Manston, as one of the 16
squadrons that No. 11 Group had for the evacuation. On 27 May
264 Squadron claimed three He 111 and two damaged. On 28 May,
shortly after take-off, 10 Defiants were attacked by about 30 Bf
109s – forming a circle, they claimed six German fighters for
the loss of three Defiants. The Defiant was initially successful
against enemy aircraft and its best day was 29 May, when No. 264
Squadron claimed 37 kills in two sorties: 19 Ju 87 Stukas,
mostly picked off as they came out of their dives, nine
Messerschmitt Bf 110 twin-engined heavy fighters, eight Bf 109s
and a Ju-88; one Defiant gunner was lost after he bailed out,
although the aircraft made it back to its base to be repaired.
On 31 May, seven Defiants were lost in one day.
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Luftwaffe fighters suffered losses when "bouncing" flights of
Defiants from the rear, apparently mistaking them for
Hurricanes. The German pilots were unaware of the Defiant's
rear-firing armament and encountered concentrated defensive
fire. The Luftwaffe changed tactics, to outmanoeuvre the Defiant
and attack from below or dead ahead, where the turret guns
offered no defence. Defiant losses quickly mounted, particularly
among the gunners, who were often unable to leave stricken
aircraft. The additional weight of the turret and the second
crewman plus the aerodynamic drag gave the Defiant a lower
performance than conventional single-seat fighter aircraft.
264 Squadron developed a counter against single-seat aircraft
such as the Bf 109. By flying in an ever-descending Lufbery
circle, Defiant crews sacrificed the advantage of height but
eliminated the possibility of attack from underneath, while
giving 360° of defensive fire. This tactic was used by 264
Squadron, but when the Defiants of 141 Sqn were committed to
combat a few months later during the Battle of Britain, it chose
to ignore their advice. On 19 July, seven out of nine 141
Squadron Defiants sent to cover a convoy off Folkestone were
shot down by Bf 109s of JG 51, and the remaining two survived,
one badly damaged, thanks only to the intervention of Hurricanes
of 111 Sqn. The Hurricane pilots reported that the Defiants had
shot down four Bf 109s. Although 264 Squadron claimed 48 kills
in eight days over Dunkirk, the cost was high with 14 Defiants
lost. Actual German losses were no more than 12–15 enemy
aircraft; the turret's wide angle of fire meant that several
Defiants could engage the same target at one time, leading to
multiple claims.
On 22 August, in response to an urgent demand for aircraft to
defend Britain's airspace, 264 Squadron relocated to RAF
Hornchurch, Essex, while also using RAF Manston as a forward
base. On 24 August, nine Defiants of 264 scrambled from Manston
to engage an incoming German force; in the ensuing engagement,
three Ju 88s and a single Bf 109E were shot down for the loss of
two Defiants. Later that same day, another cluster of bombers
appeared and were engaged by seven Defiants that had been in the
process of refuelling; three Ju 88s and two Bf 109Es were downed
while one Defiant was in turn downed along with another damaged.
On 26 August 264 Squadron engaged a formation of 12 Dornier
Do 17 bombers over north-eastern Kent but was attacked by a
large formation of Bf 109s. Three aircraft were lost (two to ace
Hpt. Gunther Lutzow of JG 3) but six Do 17s and a Bf 109 were
shot down. Three of those victories were awarded to one Defiant,
crewed by Flight Sergeants E. R. Thorn (pilot) and F. J. Barker
(air gunner). They shot down two Do 17s but were then engaged by
a Bf 109, which set their Defiant on fire; they managed to shoot
down the German fighter before making a forced landing. For
this, they were awarded a bar to the Distinguished Flying Medal.
The squadron lost a further five aircraft (to JG 26) on 28
August, with nine crew killed, and effectively ended operations,
withdrawing to RAF Duxford the following day. With these losses,
the Defiant—which had been intended from the start as a day and
night fighter—was transferred to night operations instead. The
type had proven unsuited to the demands of the day fighter when
set against the likes of the Bf 109E, and was less capable than
other RAF aircraft such as the Hurricane and the Spitfire. By 31
August, over half the delivered Defiants had been shot down by
Luftwaffe aircraft, a rate that was deemed to be unacceptable.
On 1 July, 141 Squadron despatched L6997 on the first Defiant
night patrol. In August, the squadron was operating both by day
and night; on 15 August, the first possible nighttime success by
a Defiant was recorded, and from September onwards, the squadron
principally operated at night. In September, as a response to
the commencement of heavy attacks upon London by the Luftwaffe,
known as the Blitz, B Flight of No. 141 moved to RAF Biggin
Hill, Bromley, while A Flight relocated to Gatwick Airport, West
Sussex in October prior to moving to RAF Gravesend, Kent.
Successful claimed interceptions took place, such as two He 111s
being claimed on 15/16 September; the first confirmed kill by
Defiant of the squadron was made on 22 December, of a single He
111.
The Defiant night fighters had initially lacked airborne
interception radar, thus enemy aircraft were spotted and
attacked via the eyes of the crew alone, aided by ground-based
searchlights intended to illuminate attacking bombers. In the
opening months of 1941, as the German night bombing campaign
reached its peak, increasing numbers of Defiant night
fighter-equipped squadrons became operational and commenced
night patrols although, according to Bowyers, there were
relatively few claims across many Defiant sorties. As a
counterpoint, aviation author John Taylor noted that during the
Blitz on London of 1940–41, the four Defiant-equipped squadrons
were responsible for shooting down more enemy aircraft than any
other type in the theatre.
The improved Defiant Mk II model was fitted with the AI Mk.
IV radar and a Merlin XX engine, increasing the aircraft's
performance, particularly at night time. In September 1941, 264
Squadron became the first to receive the Defiant Mk II, bringing
them into operational use by mid-September. The principal users
of the Mk II night fighter were 96, 151, and 262 Squadrons. As
the radar-equipped Defiants began filtering through to
operational squadrons, the Luftwaffe's bombing campaign petered
out as German forces had become heavily engaged on the Eastern
Front as they embarked upon the Operation Barbarossa the
invasion of the Soviet Union.
Defiant night fighters typically attacked enemy bombers from
below, in a similar manoeuvre to the later German Schräge Musik
method. Defiants attacked more often from slightly ahead or to
one side, rather than from directly under the tail. The
turret-fighter concept was not immediately discarded and the
fitting of Defiant-type turrets to Beaufighter and Mosquito
night fighters was tried to enable these aircraft to duplicate
these methods but the deleterious effect on performance proved
drastic and the idea was abandoned.
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In game…
I have only flown the Defiant in the FMB and then only out of
curiosity. Even then it is most enjoyable to switch seats and
fly as the gunner. The AI however does not really know what to
do with the plane and tends to fly it like a Hurricane, which
can be lethal. It really needs a human pilot.
My most common use of the plane is for visual effect in early
Battle of Britain scenarios. In that role it is a lot of fun to
watch, but not fly. I am not a night fighter fan, so I have
never tried it in that role. With Mace’s new target and banner
mod, this plane also makes for a very interesting tow tug in
training missions.
#Post#: 11509--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: ben_wh Date: June 8, 2020, 2:47 pm
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von,
A very interesting choice.
This is one of the aviation evolution deadend that I am not sure
was accurately modeled in terms of behavior in any air combat
sim. For this to work properly in IL-2, you'll need a proper
'Turret Fighter' class, which is likely only applicable to two
planes (if we are only look at operational ones): the Defiant
and the Roc.
Given how accurate the tail gunners in IL-2 can be, with the
proper class it may make for an effective Luftwaffe bomber
hunter in an early war, BoB scenarios.
Cheers,
#Post#: 11511--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: vonofterdingen Date: June 8, 2020, 2:51 pm
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Good point, Ben. The game designers and modders can't be
expected to anticipate every aircraft design and as you point
out the Defiant is unorthodox in the extreme.
#Post#: 11512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: cafs Date: June 8, 2020, 3:00 pm
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An interesting idea, that not materialized indeed.
You're right Ben, we need a real Defiant/Roc mod.
Any ideas Beo, Dimon and company? :o :o ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D
#Post#: 11518--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: ben_wh Date: June 9, 2020, 12:18 pm
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von and cafs,
That was not really a request - which I know would be too much
of an ask for a 'niche within a niche' mod, unless a modder
wants an intellectual challenge.
Before we even start talking about modding, what were the
Defiant and Roc pilots instructed to do anyway? 'When you see a
fighter, turn around and present your six, then fly steadily to
allow your gunner a clean shot'? Would be interesting to learn
about RAF/ FAA pilots' reaction at the time.
Cheers,
#Post#: 11520--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: Beowolff Date: June 9, 2020, 1:31 pm
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For sure we NEED a real plane! Dimon????
S!
Beo
PS, great read here Von! ;D
#Post#: 11522--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: larsresult Date: June 9, 2020, 1:43 pm
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Hi Ben. The following tactics were developed by 264 Squadron and
the Air Fighting Development Unit in the early months of 1940.
To combat bombers there were three methods
1.Overtake on a parallel course and fire at the fuselage
2. Converge on a beam attack.
3.Dive across the front of a bomber formation.
To combat fighters
Form a defensive circle (which was the tactic favoured by
several air forces including Bf110s of the Luftwaffe)
Up to Dunkirk Defiants were successful but then the Luftwaffe
fighters realised they had no front guns and were not so agile
and then they started to suffer heavy losses. They resurfaced as
a good interim night fighter then as an ASR aircraft.
#Post#: 11524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: herbarnold99 Date: June 9, 2020, 2:50 pm
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Just adding my two cents, but I've found the AI behavior of the
current Defiant in the game isn't too bad! Maybe not
sufficiently aggressive sometimes, but plausible. And when
you're the pilot, your gunner will gamely shoot at targets if
you can position yourself appropriately (true, not always easy).
But wow! Surely the 3D model can be improved? Don't get me
wrong, it's better than not having the plane at all, but I know
I would fly it much more if it looked more realistic. It's an
operational type that saw significant combat, and truly deserves
some love. Hope it can happen!
Cheers
Herb
#Post#: 11526--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: ben_wh Date: June 9, 2020, 8:05 pm
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[quote author=larsresult link=topic=1664.msg11522#msg11522
date=1591728193]
Hi Ben. The following tactics were developed by 264 Squadron and
the Air Fighting Development Unit in the early months of 1940.
To combat bombers there were three methods
1.Overtake on a parallel course and fire at the fuselage
2. Converge on a beam attack.
3.Dive across the front of a bomber formation.
To combat fighters
Form a defensive circle (which was the tactic favoured by
several air forces including Bf110s of the Luftwaffe)
Up to Dunkirk Defiants were successful but then the Luftwaffe
fighters realised they had no front guns and were not so agile
and then they started to suffer heavy losses. They resurfaced as
a good interim night fighter then as an ASR aircraft.
[/quote]
Thanks larsresult,
To incorporate a turret fighter in game, one then has to
overcome these challenges:
The 'Turretfighter' class coding challenge:
- code this intercept behavior above against bombers
- code a defensive circle behavior (Lufbery? or other form?)
against fighters (could be useful for other early war fighters?)
And an additional challenge: add a frontal attack behavior for
'regular' fighter class when going against a turret fighter ...
Not an easy problem to solve.
Cheers,
#Post#: 11529--------------------------------------------------
Re: Plane of the Week: the Bolton Paul Defiant
By: dandolo513 Date: June 10, 2020, 12:52 pm
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Hallo.
I wonder if a mod exist?
Best regards
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