DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Hax Community
HTML https://haxnuts.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Customizing Our Forum
*****************************************************
#Post#: 52032--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: VanGoghSunflowers
Date: December 14, 2021, 8:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MayaMia link ---
>
> [quote author=Thetis099 link=topic=609.msg52003#msg52003
date=1639527884]
> [quote author=Cairn terrier link=topic=609.msg51954#msg51954
date=1639520406]
> I can support a policy of civility.
> Not that we have to refer to each other as “the honorable
poster from the great state of Montana”, but that you can’t call
another member, or refer to them, using a derogatory term.
(Except maybe in the collective sense. I’m still thinking that
through.)
>
> But I’m against the complete banning of any word, even those I
find very offensive.
> That’s just a slippery slope to banning whole books of them,
and then the thoughts behind them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I would be rather be offended by what I choose to read
than ban words. We have rules about what is and is not allowed.
Those rules are about the intent behind the words, no? We have
the ability to ignore what we don't want to read. The rules
already cover this pretty well already, right?
I missed the post but it is clear which word you guys are
talking about. That word is one I would like to see the power
taken away from (we would have to use it to do that I think) but
nobody, and I mean nobody, agrees with me. Why is it so
nuclear? Why is it so much worse than other derogatory words?
I have been hurt much worse by much milder words because of the
intent behind the milder words. Specifically because I know how
nuclear this word is I have no desire to use it because I don't
want to offend anyone, but I don't think we should ban words.
[/quote]
Why does the shit hit the fan when I’m traveling? Oh well
So yes I use that word, mostly in my head. Rarely it comes out
of my mouth, but when it does, it is directed at a man. Men sure
don’t like being called that, which is my point of using it.
I don’t understand why gendered insults are bad against women,
but ok against men. So itch is bad but dick is acceptable.
Sounds like BS to me.
Now personally, it isn’t the words per se that bother me, it is
the expression at times.
For example, when two well known, popular posters in the pre
times used sloppy seconds to refer to a woman/girl they did not
like, and in the second case to refer to a child…..
Not a blip, not a beep, nada in the first case. In the second
case very gentle pushback by one or two people.
So I guess, if you have a problem with the c word, but don’t
give a flying fart about sloppy seconds being used as an insult
- well then……
[/quote]
Because there is a very, very, millennia long history of
misogyny. The whole reason the c-, t-, and p-words are
considered insults is because being a female is the insult.
Using those words against a man is accusing him of femaleness,
as a bad thing. Using those words against a woman is saying that
that part of her is all she is, which for a very long time is
how society and the legal system treated women.
The same history does not exist for the d-word, which is the
only gendered insult towards men that I can think of.
I don't tend to call people names and to the best of my
recollection, I've never used any of those words to refer to
anyone. But there IS a difference.
#Post#: 52037--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: guest33
Date: December 14, 2021, 8:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: VanGoghSunflowers link ---
>
> [quote author=MayaMia link=topic=609.msg52023#msg52023
date=1639532755]
> [quote author=Thetis099 link=topic=609.msg52003#msg52003
date=1639527884]
> [quote author=Cairn terrier link=topic=609.msg51954#msg51954
date=1639520406]
> I can support a policy of civility.
> Not that we have to refer to each other as “the honorable
poster from the great state of Montana”, but that you can’t call
another member, or refer to them, using a derogatory term.
(Except maybe in the collective sense. I’m still thinking that
through.)
>
> But I’m against the complete banning of any word, even those I
find very offensive.
> That’s just a slippery slope to banning whole books of them,
and then the thoughts behind them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I would be rather be offended by what I choose to read
than ban words. We have rules about what is and is not allowed.
Those rules are about the intent behind the words, no? We have
the ability to ignore what we don't want to read. The rules
already cover this pretty well already, right?
I missed the post but it is clear which word you guys are
talking about. That word is one I would like to see the power
taken away from (we would have to use it to do that I think) but
nobody, and I mean nobody, agrees with me. Why is it so
nuclear? Why is it so much worse than other derogatory words?
I have been hurt much worse by much milder words because of the
intent behind the milder words. Specifically because I know how
nuclear this word is I have no desire to use it because I don't
want to offend anyone, but I don't think we should ban words.
[/quote]
Why does the shit hit the fan when I’m traveling? Oh well
So yes I use that word, mostly in my head. Rarely it comes out
of my mouth, but when it does, it is directed at a man. Men sure
don’t like being called that, which is my point of using it.
I don’t understand why gendered insults are bad against women,
but ok against men. So itch is bad but dick is acceptable.
Sounds like BS to me.
Now personally, it isn’t the words per se that bother me, it is
the expression at times.
For example, when two well known, popular posters in the pre
times used sloppy seconds to refer to a woman/girl they did not
like, and in the second case to refer to a child…..
Not a blip, not a beep, nada in the first case. In the second
case very gentle pushback by one or two people.
So I guess, if you have a problem with the c word, but don’t
give a flying fart about sloppy seconds being used as an insult
- well then……
[/quote]
Because there is a very, very, millennia long history of
misogyny. The whole reason the c-, t-, and p-words are
considered insults is because being a female is the insult.
Using those words against a man is accusing him of femaleness,
as a bad thing. Using those words against a woman is saying that
that part of her is all she is, which for a very long time is
how society and the legal system treated women.
The same history does not exist for the d-word, which is the
only gendered insult towards men that I can think of.
I don't tend to call people names and to the best of my
recollection, I've never used any of those words to refer to
anyone. But there IS a difference.
[/quote]
But sloppy seconds is the exact same meaning (as the part I
bolded)? But that is ok? I don’t understand.
You object to the c word due to the history of misogyny, (thanks
for the explanation, of course being a woman I had no idea of
all that) but you are ok with sloppy seconds as an insult to a
woman. I don’t get it.
You may not be able to think of other gendered insults towards
men right now but there are plenty. Btw, the few times I’ve
called a man a c word, no I was not accusing them of femaleness.
That is your interpretation, not mine.
#Post#: 52038--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: guest33
Date: December 14, 2021, 8:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TwoASAPsAgo link ---
>
> [quote author=MayaMia link=topic=609.msg52023#msg52023
date=1639532755]
> [quote author=Thetis099 link=topic=609.msg52003#msg52003
date=1639527884]
> [quote author=Cairn terrier link=topic=609.msg51954#msg51954
date=1639520406]
> I can support a policy of civility.
> Not that we have to refer to each other as “the honorable
poster from the great state of Montana”, but that you can’t call
another member, or refer to them, using a derogatory term.
(Except maybe in the collective sense. I’m still thinking that
through.)
>
> But I’m against the complete banning of any word, even those I
find very offensive.
> That’s just a slippery slope to banning whole books of them,
and then the thoughts behind them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I would be rather be offended by what I choose to read
than ban words. We have rules about what is and is not allowed.
Those rules are about the intent behind the words, no? We have
the ability to ignore what we don't want to read. The rules
already cover this pretty well already, right?
I missed the post but it is clear which word you guys are
talking about. That word is one I would like to see the power
taken away from (we would have to use it to do that I think) but
nobody, and I mean nobody, agrees with me. Why is it so
nuclear? Why is it so much worse than other derogatory words?
I have been hurt much worse by much milder words because of the
intent behind the milder words. Specifically because I know how
nuclear this word is I have no desire to use it because I don't
want to offend anyone, but I don't think we should ban words.
[/quote]
Why does the shit hit the fan when I’m traveling? Oh well
So yes I use that word, mostly in my head. Rarely it comes out
of my mouth, but when it does, it is directed at a man. Men sure
don’t like being called that, which is my point of using it.
I don’t understand why gendered insults are bad against women,
but ok against men. So itch is bad but dick is acceptable.
Sounds like BS to me.
Now personally, it isn’t the words per se that bother me, it is
the expression at times.
For example, when two well known, popular posters in the pre
times used sloppy seconds to refer to a woman/girl they did not
like, and in the second case to refer to a child…..
Not a blip, not a beep, nada in the first case. In the second
case very gentle pushback by one or two people.
So I guess, if you have a problem with the c word, but don’t
give a flying fart about sloppy seconds being used as an insult
- well then……
[/quote]
We don't have to have the same triggers. And, yes, I do have
serious hatred for the c word, even so-called attempts to
"reclaim" it. I pretty much don't care what someone's intent is
behind using it.
And, no, I don't need to feel exactly the same way about every
other gross, sexist expression out there.
[/quote]
No need to be rude. I gave my opinion, but apparently I’m not
allowed.
#Post#: 52041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: animaniactoo
Date: December 14, 2021, 9:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
MayaMia, can you explain what you thought was rude here? Because
I didn't think that TAA was being rude, rather than pushing back
against something that could also be interpreted as rude - the
implication that finding one term offensive and not another
meant that people who only found one particularly offensive were
somehow fooling themselves about caring.
Everyone is of course allowed to have their own opinion - that
doesn't mean that everyone is going to *agree* with each other's
opinions, which is a large part of what exploring this topic is
about. I think it is best if we don't assign others ill-intent
for disagreeing or giving their own opinion (that is not just
directed at you, speaking generally on that part).
#Post#: 52044--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: animaniactoo
Date: December 14, 2021, 9:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Otherwise - my issue with reclaiming words to diffuse them and
having them lose their power. I don't think all words need to
lose power. I think it's okay for some to be more nuclear as a
question of weight and impact. Sure we could use more words to
add weight and volume, but then think about other grading
systems of words: Strong, Stronger, Strongest. We use these
changes to indicate a quantifiable difference, and I don't think
that needs to be limited t suffixes.
But it's also my impression over time that any taking back and
reclaiming words results in these major drawbacks:
• It gives cover for those who are entirely serious with
ill-intent to use them and mean them.
• When one group can use a word to refer to themselves but
others cannot - it creates division rather than equality and
unification.
• The word actually loses entirely none of its
power/offensiveness when it is understood that it is being said
in seriousness and with the intent to make that impact.
There are very very few words that I have seen neutralized by
additional use and any reclamation efforts. And when one is
taken off the table, another simply appears to take its place
because when people really want to insult someone, they will
find a way. And they will create every shorthand in the world
that they can to "wink wink nod nod" get their point across. A
la "Let's Go, Brandon". Not an offensive word. But words that
are being used to carry an offensive message.
#Post#: 52045--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: VanGoghSunflowers
Date: December 14, 2021, 9:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MayaMia link ---
>
> [quote author=VanGoghSunflowers
link=topic=609.msg52032#msg52032 date=1639535736]
> [quote author=MayaMia link=topic=609.msg52023#msg52023
date=1639532755]
> [quote author=Thetis099 link=topic=609.msg52003#msg52003
date=1639527884]
> [quote author=Cairn terrier link=topic=609.msg51954#msg51954
date=1639520406]
> I can support a policy of civility.
> Not that we have to refer to each other as “the honorable
poster from the great state of Montana”, but that you can’t call
another member, or refer to them, using a derogatory term.
(Except maybe in the collective sense. I’m still thinking that
through.)
>
> But I’m against the complete banning of any word, even those I
find very offensive.
> That’s just a slippery slope to banning whole books of them,
and then the thoughts behind them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I would be rather be offended by what I choose to read
than ban words. We have rules about what is and is not allowed.
Those rules are about the intent behind the words, no? We have
the ability to ignore what we don't want to read. The rules
already cover this pretty well already, right?
I missed the post but it is clear which word you guys are
talking about. That word is one I would like to see the power
taken away from (we would have to use it to do that I think) but
nobody, and I mean nobody, agrees with me. Why is it so
nuclear? Why is it so much worse than other derogatory words?
I have been hurt much worse by much milder words because of the
intent behind the milder words. Specifically because I know how
nuclear this word is I have no desire to use it because I don't
want to offend anyone, but I don't think we should ban words.
[/quote]
Why does the shit hit the fan when I’m traveling? Oh well
So yes I use that word, mostly in my head. Rarely it comes out
of my mouth, but when it does, it is directed at a man. Men sure
don’t like being called that, which is my point of using it.
I don’t understand why gendered insults are bad against women,
but ok against men. So itch is bad but dick is acceptable.
Sounds like BS to me.
Now personally, it isn’t the words per se that bother me, it is
the expression at times.
For example, when two well known, popular posters in the pre
times used sloppy seconds to refer to a woman/girl they did not
like, and in the second case to refer to a child…..
Not a blip, not a beep, nada in the first case. In the second
case very gentle pushback by one or two people.
So I guess, if you have a problem with the c word, but don’t
give a flying fart about sloppy seconds being used as an insult
- well then……
[/quote]
Because there is a very, very, millennia long history of
misogyny. The whole reason the c-, t-, and p-words are
considered insults is because being a female is the insult.
Using those words against a man is accusing him of femaleness,
as a bad thing. Using those words against a woman is saying that
that part of her is all she is, which for a very long time is
how society and the legal system treated women.
The same history does not exist for the d-word, which is the
only gendered insult towards men that I can think of.
I don't tend to call people names and to the best of my
recollection, I've never used any of those words to refer to
anyone. But there IS a difference.
[/quote]
But sloppy seconds is the exact same meaning (as the part I
bolded)? But that is ok? I don’t understand.
You object to the c word due to the history of misogyny, (thanks
for the explanation, of course being a woman I had no idea of
all that) but you are ok with sloppy seconds as an insult to a
woman. I don’t get it.
You may not be able to think of other gendered insults towards
men right now but there are plenty. Btw, the few times I’ve
called a man a c word, no I was not accusing them of femaleness.
That is your interpretation, not mine.
[/quote]
I have never ever ever said I was okay with calling anyone
sloppy seconds. I emphatically am not.
And you did say you don't understand the difference. I was
explaining the difference as I see it. I did not mean to imply
that you are unaware of misogyny.
#Post#: 52058--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: TwoASAPsAgo
Date: December 14, 2021, 10:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MayaMia link ---
>
> [quote author=TwoASAPsAgo link=topic=609.msg52027#msg52027
date=1639534371]
> [quote author=MayaMia link=topic=609.msg52023#msg52023
date=1639532755]
> [quote author=Thetis099 link=topic=609.msg52003#msg52003
date=1639527884]
> [quote author=Cairn terrier link=topic=609.msg51954#msg51954
date=1639520406]
> I can support a policy of civility.
> Not that we have to refer to each other as “the honorable
poster from the great state of Montana”, but that you can’t call
another member, or refer to them, using a derogatory term.
(Except maybe in the collective sense. I’m still thinking that
through.)
>
> But I’m against the complete banning of any word, even those I
find very offensive.
> That’s just a slippery slope to banning whole books of them,
and then the thoughts behind them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed. I would be rather be offended by what I choose to read
than ban words. We have rules about what is and is not allowed.
Those rules are about the intent behind the words, no? We have
the ability to ignore what we don't want to read. The rules
already cover this pretty well already, right?
I missed the post but it is clear which word you guys are
talking about. That word is one I would like to see the power
taken away from (we would have to use it to do that I think) but
nobody, and I mean nobody, agrees with me. Why is it so
nuclear? Why is it so much worse than other derogatory words?
I have been hurt much worse by much milder words because of the
intent behind the milder words. Specifically because I know how
nuclear this word is I have no desire to use it because I don't
want to offend anyone, but I don't think we should ban words.
[/quote]
Why does the shit hit the fan when I’m traveling? Oh well
So yes I use that word, mostly in my head. Rarely it comes out
of my mouth, but when it does, it is directed at a man. Men sure
don’t like being called that, which is my point of using it.
I don’t understand why gendered insults are bad against women,
but ok against men. So itch is bad but dick is acceptable.
Sounds like BS to me.
Now personally, it isn’t the words per se that bother me, it is
the expression at times.
For example, when two well known, popular posters in the pre
times used sloppy seconds to refer to a woman/girl they did not
like, and in the second case to refer to a child…..
Not a blip, not a beep, nada in the first case. In the second
case very gentle pushback by one or two people.
So I guess, if you have a problem with the c word, but don’t
give a flying fart about sloppy seconds being used as an insult
- well then……
[/quote]
We don't have to have the same triggers. And, yes, I do have
serious hatred for the c word, even so-called attempts to
"reclaim" it. I pretty much don't care what someone's intent is
behind using it.
And, no, I don't need to feel exactly the same way about every
other gross, sexist expression out there.
[/quote]
No need to be rude. I gave my opinion, but apparently I’m not
allowed.
[/quote]
Rude? Please clarify. If you mean my response to your final
sentence, I was trying to be brief while addressing a loaded
comment. My ​point was that it is okay to weigh the
heinousness of different offensive expressions differently, even
within the same category of offense. For example, the history,
usage and power behind an expression matter.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And I'm stating
mine, which differs from yours -- and also from a few others who
have commented on the topic. You're not the only one, for
example, who puts a premium on "intent" (as if good intent
negates harm). My view is that certain expressions are poison
regardless of intent. Ill intent, for me, is just poison on top
of poison.
#Post#: 52073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: billieryder
Date: December 15, 2021, 12:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In general its pretty hard to shock me over general swearing.
What gets me annoyed is name calling and is doesn't have to be
swearing to annoy me. I really hate the words stupid and moron
for instance. The statement "You're a moron" gets me pretty
steamed and not a single swear word in sight.
I'm pretty sure I'm not "woke" as I'm not even sure what that
means but it doesn't seem like rocket science that name calling
is disrespectful regardless of the use of swear words - or not.
As long as its not name calling its not too offensive in my
mind.
#Post#: 52074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: kkt
Date: December 15, 2021, 1:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: VagueMagician link ---
>
> I agree with Queenie except I'm okay with male-gendered
insults (bastard, dick). You know, as long as we're being gender
inclusive when we use them.
>
--- End Quote ---
Bastard is male-gendered? I thought it was a child of unmarried
parents, either sex...
#Post#: 52077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Offensive words - and which ones are TOO offensive
DIR By: Thetis099
Date: December 15, 2021, 5:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
To clarify, when I say I want to see this word's power taken
away, I mean for women. Misogynistic men won't change how they
view women because women take the power out of the word. The
power I want to see evaporate is the power it has over women in
the context of other women. We tear each other down with it -
misogynistic men don't need our help with that. People,
including women, will use the word. Better to take the power
down from the nuclear level to an equivalent position with the
"p" word if at all possible. Were a bunch of women mad at Cardi
B. and Megan for their gratuitous use of the "p" word in their
song "WAP" last year? If they were I must have missed it. I
want that for the "c" word.
It will never be a neutral word. That's not even the point.
Many "reclaimed" words retain their original nuclearness when
used by those exerting the word upon others in order to degrade.
Those people will degrade even if they are forced to changed
their vocabulary around said degradation. Yes, this is a divide
but a divide that already exists and a divide that women can't
unilaterally reconcile. We would need men too. We won't get
the misogynistic men, so we take the power out of it for women
in relation to women as much as we can.
I have asked many women over many years to explain why they are
so against the "c" word but not the "p" word or any other slang
term for vagina. Most can't fully explain why they hate the "c"
word so much. They just know it is the worst thing and that's
that. They learned early on that acceptance among other women
required having that same attitude about the "c" word being
nuclear. Me and my damned curious why questions.
And, there is no way in hell there will ever be a consensus on
which words are not okay and why they are not okay. Better to
go after intent behind the words. At least that seems less
problematic.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 6
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page