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#Post#: 268333--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: BethinDC2AZ Date: August 13, 2024, 7:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
#Post#: 268336--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: MidwestmikkiJ Date: August 13, 2024, 7:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
The Romanian (I think the country was) won 3rd place. Then the
U.S. filed an appeal and Chiles was awarded another .1 of a
point which brought Chiles to 3rd place from 5th. Then Romania
took it to the Court for Sports and they issued the ruling that
the appeal was filed 4 seconds too late.
#Post#: 268337--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: armybrat1 Date: August 13, 2024, 7:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
That's what the argument is about. Rebecca Andrade of Brazil won
the gold. Simone Biles of the US won the silver. No
disagreement there. As the scores originally stood, Ana Barbosu
of Romania was third, with Sabrina Maneca-Voinea, Romania fourth
and Chiles fifth.
The US coach then filed an appeal, saying Chiles' score was
incorrect because she had not been given credit for one element
of her routine. The judges agreed to accept the appeal; agreed
that the score should have been elevated, and move Chiles to
third, with the the Romanians dropping to fourth and fifth.
Chiles' new score was 13.766; Barbosu was 13.700. So Barbosu
was pulled off the podium, where she had been celebrating, and
replaced by Chiles.
Romania appealed, saying that the US filed its appeal too late.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport agreed that the Romanians
were right, and the scores were reverted: Barbosu, 13.700;
Chiles 13.666.
And that's where we stand. As I noted - there's no way you can
declare it a "tie" and give both Barbosu and Chiles bronze
medals. They didn't tie.
#Post#: 268338--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: BethinDC2AZ Date: August 13, 2024, 7:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268337#msg268337
date=1723595152]
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
That's what the argument is about. Rebecca Andrade of Brazil won
the gold. Simone Biles of the US won the silver. No
disagreement there. As the scores originally stood, Ana Barbosu
of Romania was third, with Sabrina Maneca-Voinea, Romania fourth
and Chiles fifth.
The US coach then filed an appeal, saying Chiles' score was
incorrect because she had not been given credit for one element
of her routine. The judges agreed to accept the appeal; agreed
that the score should have been elevated, and move Chiles to
third, with the the Romanians dropping to fourth and fifth.
Chiles' new score was 13.766; Barbosu was 13.700. So Barbosu
was pulled off the podium, where she had been celebrating, and
replaced by Chiles.
Romania appealed, saying that the US filed its appeal too late.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport agreed that the Romanians
were right, and the scores were reverted: Barbosu, 13.700;
Chiles 13.666.
And that's where we stand. As I noted - there's no way you can
declare it a "tie" and give both Barbosu and Chiles bronze
medals. They didn't tie.
[/quote]
Seems straight forward to me. The one minute technicality is
stupid. The medal is Chile’s’.
#Post#: 268339--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: acl-ny Date: August 13, 2024, 7:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=MidwestmikkiJ link=topic=2906.msg268336#msg268336
date=1723594767]
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
The Romanian (I think the country was) won 3rd place. Then the
U.S. filed an appeal and Chiles was awarded another .1 of a
point which brought Chiles to 3rd place from 5th. Then Romania
took it to the Court for Sports and they issued the ruling that
the appeal was filed 4 seconds too late.
[/quote]
But there’s also a question re the Romanian’s score. They
deducted a percentage because she allegedly stepped out of
bounds. The Romanians are claiming she didn’t.
So I say - review the performances. Was Romania inbounds? Should
Chiles get the upgraded level of difficulty? Was the challenge
made in time (records indicate it was)? Then calculate their
scores based on the proper reading of the performances and award
the medal accordingly.
My hope is that the numbers come out the same and they can both
get bronze, but if not, at least everyone knows who won and who
didn’t - based on the performances and correct scoring. Even
though the ‘loser’ will be upset, at least they’ll know it was
fair the other competitor earned it.
#Post#: 268340--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: armybrat1 Date: August 13, 2024, 7:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268338#msg268338
date=1723595278]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268337#msg268337
date=1723595152]
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
That's what the argument is about. Rebecca Andrade of Brazil won
the gold. Simone Biles of the US won the silver. No
disagreement there. As the scores originally stood, Ana Barbosu
of Romania was third, with Sabrina Maneca-Voinea, Romania fourth
and Chiles fifth.
The US coach then filed an appeal, saying Chiles' score was
incorrect because she had not been given credit for one element
of her routine. The judges agreed to accept the appeal; agreed
that the score should have been elevated, and move Chiles to
third, with the the Romanians dropping to fourth and fifth.
Chiles' new score was 13.766; Barbosu was 13.700. So Barbosu
was pulled off the podium, where she had been celebrating, and
replaced by Chiles.
Romania appealed, saying that the US filed its appeal too late.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport agreed that the Romanians
were right, and the scores were reverted: Barbosu, 13.700;
Chiles 13.666.
And that's where we stand. As I noted - there's no way you can
declare it a "tie" and give both Barbosu and Chiles bronze
medals. They didn't tie.
[/quote]
Seems straight forward to me. The one minute technicality is
stupid. The medal is Chile’s’.
[/quote]
"Stupid" maybe, but the rule. Just like a pitch that leaves the
pitcher's hand one second late is a ball; a play that starts one
second after the clock hits zero doesn't count; and every other
rule that deals with time. If it really was more than one
minute, the appeal doesn't count.
The US Gymnastics Federation claims that they *now* have video
that proves conclusively the appeal was filed in under a minute
- at 47 seconds to be precise. They didn't have that video
before, so they didn't provide it to the Court. But they now
have it. But the Court said "too bad; we asked for *all* your
evidence. We evaluated what you gave us. We ruled. We're done."
So the US is considering appealing to the Swiss Supreme Court.
#Post#: 268341--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: BethinDC2AZ Date: August 13, 2024, 7:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=2906.msg268339#msg268339
date=1723595560]
[quote author=MidwestmikkiJ link=topic=2906.msg268336#msg268336
date=1723594767]
[quote author=BethinDC2AZ link=topic=2906.msg268333#msg268333
date=1723594256]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
I’m confused. Who actually won, minus stupid 4 seconds late
rules? Cause that’s who should get the medal.
[/quote]
The Romanian (I think the country was) won 3rd place. Then the
U.S. filed an appeal and Chiles was awarded another .1 of a
point which brought Chiles to 3rd place from 5th. Then Romania
took it to the Court for Sports and they issued the ruling that
the appeal was filed 4 seconds too late.
[/quote]
But there’s also a question re the Romanian’s score. They
deducted a percentage because she allegedly stepped out of
bounds. The Romanians are claiming she didn’t.
So I say - review the performances. Was Romania inbounds? Should
Chiles get the upgraded level of difficulty? Was the challenge
made in time (records indicate it was)? Then calculate their
scores based on the proper reading of the performances and award
the medal accordingly.
My hope is that the numbers come out the same and they can both
get bronze, but if not, at least everyone knows who won and who
didn’t - based on the performances and correct scoring. Even
though the ‘loser’ will be upset, at least they’ll know it was
fair the other competitor earned it.
[/quote]
Isn’t this why the NFL (or was it MLB) stopped reviewing
replays? At some point you just have to make a call and stick to
it. And a medal for everyone isn’t it.
#Post#: 268351--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: LabPartner Date: August 13, 2024, 10:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268328#msg268328
date=1723593700]
[quote author=LabPartner link=topic=2906.msg268324#msg268324
date=1723588172]
[quote author=armybrat1 link=topic=2906.msg268322#msg268322
date=1723587401]
BTW, compare gymnastics medal discussions with men's high jump.
Shelby McEwen of the US and Hamish Kerr of New Zealand flat
tied. Cleared the same height; missed the same height; same
number of missed jumps earlier in the competition. Two gold
medals? Nope. Jump it off. Kerr won; McEwen settled for a
silver. Haven't heard any complaints.
[/quote]
They could’ve had 2 gold medals. It happened in that event in
Tokyo. They chose to jump for it. Mutual decision.
[/quote]
Okay, I'll be blunt. Remember that I spent about 15 years of my
life coaching/running girls' sports, and I have been a fan of
women's sports as long as I can remember. And I really don't
like the suggestions of "just pretend there was a tie and give
two or even three women bronze medals, so that nobody's feelings
get hurt." No, don't do that. If there was a tie that can't be
broken, okay - I can see multiple medals. But that wasn't the
case. There wasn't a tie for third that couldn't be broken. So
why are we talking about multiple medals?
The reference to the men's high jump was - people accept that
competitors wanted to break a tie and have a clear winner and a
second place finisher. So why are women's sports different? Why
do we have to give "participation bronze medals" so that we
don't hurt people's feelings?
[/quote]
If we're being blunt, I didn't make any comment about the
gymnastics. I only added the information that was missing from
your high jump observation.
And further bluntness, judged sports are different from
measurable sports. Always have been. I watch the judged sports
because they're frequently exciting and often beautiful, but the
whole concept of judging is lost on me. I really don't care who
wins. Anyway, what should gymnasts do if they end up with the
same score? Another shot at their same routine hoping one of
them messes up? The high jumpers did not have to continue
jumping until they had first and second place. They could've had
gold for each of them.
#Post#: 268357--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: kkt Date: August 13, 2024, 11:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Would the Swiss courts really grant cert for a sporting event
judgement call?
#Post#: 268358--------------------------------------------------
Re: 2024 Summer Olympics (Paris)
By: MidwestmikkiJ Date: August 13, 2024, 11:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kkt link=topic=2906.msg268357#msg268357
date=1723610730]
Would the Swiss courts really grant cert for a sporting event
judgement call?
[/quote]
I don't think it is part of the Swiss Courts. Google says it's
an independent body designed to handle these cases. I assume
that means the various international sports bodies have agreed
to use it.
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