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#Post#: 171066--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: GingerJ1 Date: March 10, 2023, 1:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
Honestly, this is the nub here: This is what I need to make
crystal clear back to him.
Hax has said it many times in different ways: Your job is NOT to
get him to understand. The magic words to get him to see things
clearly do not exist, because he doesn't want to see things any
other way. Your job is set your boundaries and not let him past
them--not easy, but necessary.
From the vantage point of not being in this situation, this
looks like another facet of his trying to control you. He's
putting up impossible hoops for you to jump through and
insisting that you try. Then, when you inevitably fail to jump
impossible hoops, he makes it a failure on your part.
The only way to win this game is not to play.
You have to tell him no. Please please do this.
And you know this particular little game is just a facet of what
he's been doing all along.
I know it's hard to step back and see the big picture while
you're stuck here, but eventually you'll be able to look back
and see how he's controlling you, playing with you, and
emotionally abusing you.
It's not your fault; he's slowly and gradually pulled you in and
criticized you to the point where you think it's YOUR problem
when he demands things you cannot possibly do--let alone the
fact that it's things you do not want to do in the first place.
I wish you would follow acl's advice and send him back to his
own place. Spend that time looking objectively at your situation
and figure out how to do the work to extricate yourself from
him. And while he's gone, change the locks so he can only come
by at YOUR invitation.
Here is something I found on line, five ways to recognize
emotional abuse. Please look at them and ask whether this is
what is happening.
[quote]
They are Hyper-Critical or Judgmental Towards You
It is human nature to critique or judge, but in emotionally
abusive situations, someone takes it to the next level. This can
look like someone is:
[list]
[li]Putting you down in front of others
Humiliating or embarrassing you
Using sarcasm or “teasing” or “jokes” to make you feel badly
about yourself
Having an opinion about a lot of what you say, do, or think
Upset if/when you don’t agree (e.g., how you dress, how you
spend your money, who you spend time with, what you are
interested in)[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
They Ignore Boundaries or Invade Your Privacy
We all have the right to our own space. Sometimes it can be
tricky to distinguish between the rush and thrill of any new
relationship or connection and a violation of your space because
you may feel that you want to spend all of your time with this
awesome person. This can look like your partner:
[list]
[li]Wants to move a relationship faster than you are comfortable
with either emotionally or physically (e.g. saying “I love you”
very quickly and pressuring you to do the same, pushing you to
engage in sexual activities, pushing you to move in together)
Checks your texts messages, email or social media accounts
without your permission[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
They are Possessive and/or Controlling
The abuser may try to restrict your behavior through
unreasonable jealousy such as:
[list]
[li]Monitoring your actions
Constantly calling or texting when you are not around
Getting upset when you want to spend time by yourself or with
family or friends alone
Isolating you from other people in your life and/or activities
you enjoy or work
Demanding access to your phone, email, or social media
accounts[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
They are Manipulative
An emotionally abusive person may try many things to get you to
do what they want or feel badly, such as:
[list]
[li]Withdrawing affection when you’ve done something “wrong”
Ignoring or excluding you
Guilt trips
Making you doubt yourself
Denying something you know is true[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]
They Often Dismiss You and Your Feelings
The abuser might try to play down your emotions or feelings by:
[list]
[li]Saying you are too sensitive or calling you crazy
Making fun of your achievements or hopes and dreams
Refusing to talk about or take responsibility for their actions
Blaming you or someone else for their actions (it’s never their
fault)
Being indifferent to your feelings[/li]
[li][/li]
[/list][/quote]
#Post#: 171067--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: animaniactoo Date: March 10, 2023, 1:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
No. You do NOT need to make it crystal clear back to him. He
doesn't want to hear it. He has made this clear and at this
point, you are the person resisting that. Which is not helping
you.
Your responsibility is for making the attempt. NOT for how he
receives it. How he receives it is out of your control.
What is within your control: Having attempted to explain,
stopping at No. I am not doing this. And sticking to it.
If you have already said your no, and attempted to explain, then
your taking on the "job" of finding a way to make it crystal
clear to him is just another version of you putting in more work
than he is willing to do. Stop putting in the extra work. It's
not yours, and it will never succeed as long as he is unwilling
to put in his end.
We all make little adjustments and put in a little extra for
those we love and care about because nothing is ever perfect.
But in return, we expect cooperation, appreciation, and their
doing the same for us on the things we are a little boneheaded
about ourselves.
But not when "a little extra" isn't useful in getting a result.
And it's not getting a result because it seems that he doesn't
want to hear anything that contradicts his view of what should
be or could be.
Which limits your responsibility to the thing you can control.
Being clear that it's a no. That's all that you can do if he's
not receptive to any other POV.
Figuring out why it's a No, is mostly for your OWN benefit, to
help you keep in mind why it's a no in the face of his pressure
and desire for it to be a Yes.
#Post#: 171068--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: billieryder Date: March 10, 2023, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
#Post#: 171070--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: Queenie Date: March 10, 2023, 1:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171068#msg171068
date=1678475584]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
[/quote]
I submit that it is not incumbent upon you to do any such thing.
Long and wordy hasn't worked. Try short and sweet: I like
needlework. I can do this even with my eye issues. Feel free
to join me!
#Post#: 171071--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: GingerJ1 Date: March 10, 2023, 1:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171068#msg171068
date=1678475584]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
[/quote]
Please read my answer above. You can't make it clear to him,
because he's not listening.
If your counselor is not helping you figure out how to say NO
(and to get rid of him), you need to find a new counselor.
#Post#: 171073--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: acl-ny Date: March 10, 2023, 1:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171068#msg171068
date=1678475584]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
[/quote]
I'm so glad to hear you're going to counseling. But as Ani
said, the focus of the counseling needs to be on you, not on how
to make things clear to him. Because nothing you do will
accomplish that goal. You can't make him do or see anything. Let
the counseling be on how to stop allowing him make you do stuff.
#Post#: 171092--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: billieryder Date: March 10, 2023, 1:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171073#msg171073
date=1678476103]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171068#msg171068
date=1678475584]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
[/quote]
I'm so glad to hear you're going to counseling. But as Ani
said, the focus of the counseling needs to be on you, not on how
to make things clear to him. Because nothing you do will
accomplish that goal. You can't make him do or see anything. Let
the counseling be on how to stop allowing him make you do stuff.
[/quote]
You are in luck. The latest disagreement has been about me NOT
doing it and declaring an impasse. The most I would commit to
was thinking about the problem. But now that I've seen what
others have said. Thinking about it will return me to "This is
an impasse. I can't solve this problem for you."
But I also want to stop these discussions. That is just
pressure regarding hobbies in another form.
#Post#: 171096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: animaniactoo Date: March 10, 2023, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171092#msg171092
date=1678477801]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171073#msg171073
date=1678476103]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171068#msg171068
date=1678475584]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171058#msg171058
date=1678474356]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171054#msg171054
date=1678473890]
[quote author=Sahmtoo link=topic=1790.msg171044#msg171044
date=1678470944]
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg170861#msg170861
date=1678416798]
But yeah.... It has been made crystal clear to me that he
can't/won't pick the hobby because he has no interests therefore
he wants me to be sufficiently passionate about something he can
join in on and share.
[/quote]
It's just not reasonable for him to expect someone else to
provide this level of energy to get him excited about doing
something. You can't be his external motivation, even if you
were inclined to be as obsessive as he is asking you to be. My
guess is that he's depressed or something, and he's hatched this
plan for how you could solve his lack of passion because it's a
way for him to dodge his own responsibility for his life.
What do you get out of this?
[/quote]
This is what I need to make crystal clear back to him. I've
told him that I can't make him happy by taking a moguls clinic
for example to become better at moguls (I have improved but I'm
still pretty bad. Just not utterly hopeless). It doesn't work
that way. And we have proof with skiing and cycling. I'm been
pretty pleased with my cycling in particular (pre eye). Less
pleased with skiing skills but I am still pretty decent. But he
is better at both by a wide margin and therefore he is unhappy
with my passion and his ability to share at a level that is
meaningful to him.
Mostly what I get out of this is hassled. Either for my lack of
passion, my inability to think up something or my lack of
interest in whatever he suggests. This is being presented as a
shared thing so I must participate. But see above on how well
this sharing has actually worked - not well at all.
[/quote]
So what are you going to do about it?
[/quote]
I have a counselling session on Tuesday to try and figure out
how to make the above clear to him. I want out of the "I must
take on making shared hobby meaningful to him" role. He makes
it meaningful to himself.
[/quote]
I'm so glad to hear you're going to counseling. But as Ani
said, the focus of the counseling needs to be on you, not on how
to make things clear to him. Because nothing you do will
accomplish that goal. You can't make him do or see anything. Let
the counseling be on how to stop allowing him make you do stuff.
[/quote]
You are in luck. The latest disagreement has been about me NOT
doing it and declaring an impasse. The most I would commit to
was thinking about the problem. But now that I've seen what
others have said. Thinking about it will return me to "This is
an impasse. I can't solve this problem for you."
But I also want to stop these discussions. That is just
pressure regarding hobbies in another form.
[/quote]
I ask you this from all my years of therapy:
If you can't stop him from trying to start the discussions, what
CAN you do? What is within your control that needs no assent or
cooperation from him?
#Post#: 171100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: TwoASAPsAgo Date: March 10, 2023, 2:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171092#msg171092
date=1678477801]
[quote author=acl-ny link=topic=1790.msg171073#msg171073
date=1678476103]
I'm so glad to hear you're going to counseling. But as Ani
said, the focus of the counseling needs to be on you, not on how
to make things clear to him. Because nothing you do will
accomplish that goal. You can't make him do or see anything. Let
the counseling be on how to stop allowing him make you do stuff.
[/quote]
You are in luck. The latest disagreement has been about me NOT
doing it and declaring an impasse. The most I would commit to
was thinking about the problem. But now that I've seen what
others have said. Thinking about it will return me to "This is
an impasse. I can't solve this problem for you."
But I also want to stop these discussions. That is just
pressure regarding hobbies in another form.
[/quote]
What might be useful is to have some ready phrases in your back
pocket for when he tries to start up the discussions. Off the
top of my head:
* We've already talked in circles on this subject and there's
nothing more to say.
* We'll have to agree to disagree.
* Nothing has changed for me since the last time we discussed
this.
* I'm not going to get in the way of your pursuing [hobby du
jour].
* I'm going to pass on that (today).
* Have fun! I'm doing X and Y today.
* Non sequitur to change the subject.
#Post#: 171119--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sharing Hobbies with loved ones
By: Queenie Date: March 10, 2023, 2:36 pm
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[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1790.msg171092#msg171092
date=1678477801]
But I also want to stop these discussions. That is just
pressure regarding hobbies in another form.
[/quote]
You are under no obligation to have these discussions just
because he starts them. Zero.
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