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#Post#: 167524--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: muskrat Date: February 24, 2023, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=animaniactoo link=topic=1760.msg167522#msg167522
date=1677278402]
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167451#msg167451
date=1677268287]
[quote author=Queenie link=topic=1760.msg167440#msg167440
date=1677267579]
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167438#msg167438
date=1677267414]
[quote author=animaniactoo link=topic=1760.msg167402#msg167402
date=1677261897]
The breaks are a great suggestion, but also try engaging her to
help find a solution. She sounds like someone who either isn't
comfortable in the position she's been requested to be in, or
doesn't stay comfortable for long.
So, ask her what makes her most comfortable to be able to sit
(mostly) still and pay attention. Does she need a comfy, a
fidget toy, or just to sit a certain way which doesn't "look"
like "paying attention"?
Also, I would ignore the hands in the mouth, unless it is
actively getting in the way of things she needs to say - and at
that point you can prompt with the ask "I'm sorry, I couldn't
hear that with your hand in the way, can you take your hand out
of your mouth and try again please?"
The important thing is whether she's absorbing the information,
not whether she's the picture of still attention - so I would
focus the goal on the information absorption (and the
breaks/excess energy running around dump may help with that),
and the stillness may follow as she settles into routine with
you.
[/quote]
The hands in the mouth was def for clarity: I was observing
last time, but neither the coordinator or I could understand
kid's responses.
And I couldnt quite tell if she was absorbing the info towards
the end: the squirminess had really taken over and she seemed to
be mentally checking out. The figiting seemed to be getting in
the way of processing the info: if she were a whiz, how she sat
wouldnt have been an issue.
I;m just concerned that the constant moving around and
facetouching/fingers in mouth was distracting her from absorbing
the material.
[/quote]
Can you give her something else to do with her fingers?
[/quote]
Thanks to the input here <3, I just picked up a cheap squishy
ball thingie. I'll run it by the coordinator first, but
hopefully handling that (and taking minibreaks) will help Kiddo
focus.
[/quote]
Understand that a lot of what I know is 2nd and 3rd hand for
kids, but I am a strong teacher for tweens to adults (this is
not my evaluation although I don't disagree with it), and the
ultimate thing is that when the student's eyes start glazing
over, it just about doesn't matter what you try - they've
absorbed as much as they can in that moment. Whether that's the
entire session, or the time since the last mini break.
It may be that they don't respond to or process that particular
portion of the teaching, or it may just be "teacher, my brain is
full!", so sometimes, you actually get farther by abandoning
what you're trying to work on in that moment and re-directing to
something different. If she's bored with a verbal report, maybe
she'll work well with simple cut outs to act out/show what was
happening in the story. Or matching up spelling letters to
words. Or doing a mismatch - let's be silly! which one is the
wrong one!
It might be slower than the goals of the program, but if it's
the right pace for her, then it is, and the need is to meet her
where she is at, rather than forcing her to the program's pace.
This is not to say that she'll never need to work at the pace a
teacher/tutor wants her to be at, just that this is early into
learning and the goal is to get her engaged in WANTING to learn
it, and that means that the engagement is generally more
important than the pace at which it happens.
Also, has anyone asked the parents what works for getting
focused non-squirmy attention? I suggested engaging kiddo and
having her help earlier, but consulting the parents is also a
likely place of help. Both these sources have more information
about what works for this particular kid, so if you can check in
with them, that will hopefully get you some useful info.
[/quote]
I was told there are 7 kids at home, including twins born just
this last fall. Coordinator told me there's little to no parent
engagement, so sounds like my Kid is all on her own.
So I def want her to have some personal solo time with an adult:
the classroom teacher cant do that, so hopefully my 45min alone
with her can help.
Thanks muchly to you & everyone who's weighed in here for all
your input/ideas. It helps to talk to others to see what things
I might be able to try and how to think about giving her the
best I can.
HTML https://media0.giphy.com/media/azi3GTPtxWKCQ/200.gif
#Post#: 167538--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: animaniactoo Date: February 24, 2023, 7:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167524#msg167524
date=1677278919]
[quote author=animaniactoo link=topic=1760.msg167522#msg167522
date=1677278402]
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167451#msg167451
date=1677268287]
[quote author=Queenie link=topic=1760.msg167440#msg167440
date=1677267579]
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167438#msg167438
date=1677267414]
[quote author=animaniactoo link=topic=1760.msg167402#msg167402
date=1677261897]
The breaks are a great suggestion, but also try engaging her to
help find a solution. She sounds like someone who either isn't
comfortable in the position she's been requested to be in, or
doesn't stay comfortable for long.
So, ask her what makes her most comfortable to be able to sit
(mostly) still and pay attention. Does she need a comfy, a
fidget toy, or just to sit a certain way which doesn't "look"
like "paying attention"?
Also, I would ignore the hands in the mouth, unless it is
actively getting in the way of things she needs to say - and at
that point you can prompt with the ask "I'm sorry, I couldn't
hear that with your hand in the way, can you take your hand out
of your mouth and try again please?"
The important thing is whether she's absorbing the information,
not whether she's the picture of still attention - so I would
focus the goal on the information absorption (and the
breaks/excess energy running around dump may help with that),
and the stillness may follow as she settles into routine with
you.
[/quote]
The hands in the mouth was def for clarity: I was observing
last time, but neither the coordinator or I could understand
kid's responses.
And I couldnt quite tell if she was absorbing the info towards
the end: the squirminess had really taken over and she seemed to
be mentally checking out. The figiting seemed to be getting in
the way of processing the info: if she were a whiz, how she sat
wouldnt have been an issue.
I;m just concerned that the constant moving around and
facetouching/fingers in mouth was distracting her from absorbing
the material.
[/quote]
Can you give her something else to do with her fingers?
[/quote]
Thanks to the input here <3, I just picked up a cheap squishy
ball thingie. I'll run it by the coordinator first, but
hopefully handling that (and taking minibreaks) will help Kiddo
focus.
[/quote]
Understand that a lot of what I know is 2nd and 3rd hand for
kids, but I am a strong teacher for tweens to adults (this is
not my evaluation although I don't disagree with it), and the
ultimate thing is that when the student's eyes start glazing
over, it just about doesn't matter what you try - they've
absorbed as much as they can in that moment. Whether that's the
entire session, or the time since the last mini break.
It may be that they don't respond to or process that particular
portion of the teaching, or it may just be "teacher, my brain is
full!", so sometimes, you actually get farther by abandoning
what you're trying to work on in that moment and re-directing to
something different. If she's bored with a verbal report, maybe
she'll work well with simple cut outs to act out/show what was
happening in the story. Or matching up spelling letters to
words. Or doing a mismatch - let's be silly! which one is the
wrong one!
It might be slower than the goals of the program, but if it's
the right pace for her, then it is, and the need is to meet her
where she is at, rather than forcing her to the program's pace.
This is not to say that she'll never need to work at the pace a
teacher/tutor wants her to be at, just that this is early into
learning and the goal is to get her engaged in WANTING to learn
it, and that means that the engagement is generally more
important than the pace at which it happens.
Also, has anyone asked the parents what works for getting
focused non-squirmy attention? I suggested engaging kiddo and
having her help earlier, but consulting the parents is also a
likely place of help. Both these sources have more information
about what works for this particular kid, so if you can check in
with them, that will hopefully get you some useful info.
[/quote]
I was told there are 7 kids at home, including twins born just
this last fall. Coordinator told me there's little to no parent
engagement, so sounds like my Kid is all on her own.
So I def want her to have some personal solo time with an adult:
the classroom teacher cant do that, so hopefully my 45min alone
with her can help.
Thanks muchly to you & everyone who's weighed in here for all
your input/ideas. It helps to talk to others to see what things
I might be able to try and how to think about giving her the
best I can.
HTML https://media0.giphy.com/media/azi3GTPtxWKCQ/200.gif
[/quote]
Okay, with that info - I'm going to suggest something that might
seem a little oddball... try having music playing softly in the
background while you're working.
If her "norm" is chaos that is likely almost never quiet, the
very fact of complete and utter quiet may be unnerving to her.
She may be itchy and fidgety precisely because it's quiet.
#Post#: 167565--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: acl-ny Date: February 24, 2023, 11:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167435#msg167435
date=1677266863]
[quote author=Queenie link=topic=1760.msg167403#msg167403
date=1677262100]
Crazy suggestion: Can you have her read to your gerbils or
Hammy the hamster?
Reading with Rover is supposedly a huge success is why I ask.
[/quote]
I wish I could!
It's a very formulaic session:
*5-8min rereading outloud from a book theyve previously read
(timed to see if speed improves)
*10min for reinforcement of letter patterns (two vowels in a
word together ("ea"); double consonants "-ill") and writing
those words ("treat; great" "chill; drill")
*20min for reading outloud new material & writing one sentence
summary. Books selected by the reading coordinator tailored for
each kid's level (not chosen by me)
She did well on the first two segments. But by the last 20 min
- with the new reading passages - she was getting squirmier
(and i assume, more fatigued).
But I'll try to see if she can "pretend to be reading to Hammy!"
those last 20 min to try to engage her during that last tough
homestretch.
[/quote]
Wrote this before reading your additional posts and the
responses, including the chaos and lack of parental involvement
at home. That poor child. It’s not surprising that she’d be
floundering and in so much pain.
The suggestion of playing some music in the background seems
good to me.
Anyway, here’s my original post:
Take a pic or video of hammy and have her read to that? Or bring
a photo and record her reading to the little fur balls?
I wonder if a pic of them running on their wheels while you make
it known that you love them and their energy might help her feel
comfortable and more accepted for where she’s at right now.
Also, I’m no expert either, but is there any way you can get
them to build in some flexibility or change the schedule to let
her move around and burn up some energy? An educated guess (it
seems obvious) is that she doesn’t want to be there, feels the
pressure to confirm, be something she’s unable to be now, do
what she can’t, and the sliding down in the chair is a way to
disappear from view, become invisible. I like the ideas of
changing how and where she she reads and sits - or stands. *
Is she getting therapy, and is medication something that could
help? Not that I want to push drugs but if they work, then they
can help.
* Had a crazy idea of making a tent out of the table, sit on the
floor with a flashlight. Bring in a couple stuffed animals that
can be the campers she reads to and teaches.
#Post#: 167835--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: Bobbi Date: February 26, 2023, 7:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167455#msg167455
date=1677268490]
[quote author=Bobbi link=topic=1760.msg167412#msg167412
date=1677263519]
[quote author=LesserGoddess link=topic=1760.msg167398#msg167398
date=1677261444]
[quote author=muskrat link=topic=1760.msg167336#msg167336
date=1677255458]
I'm going to start tutoring a 1st grader (6or7yrs old) in
reading on Tues.
Session lasts 45 min starting 1:15pm. (It's after lunch & right
before end of the schoolday so I'm sure she's tired and it's def
not ideal timeslot, imo).
Dilemma: Little girl cant stop squirming. Puts her hands in
her mouth constantly; slouches down in the chair almost to the
floor; always moving around and getting distracted.
The tutoring coordinator who ran the session I observed asked
her nicely several times to take her fingers out of her mouth; a
couple times readjusted the kid in her seat when kid was sliding
under the table. Very nice/calm/professional whenever touching
kid.
Dilemma: I'm not keen on physically wrangling a kid. I'd
prefer to use verbal prompts to change behavior vice me taking
her hands out of her mouth/adjusting her in the chair, etc.
Q: Realizing all kids respond differently, what things would
you say to entice her to modify her behavior ?
[/quote]
Pivot from her sitting the whole time to allowing her to walk
around holding instruction material, or sit on one of those
large balls.
If she can't sit still, someone trying to stop that is going to
focus her energy on that obstruction rather than giving it an
outlet
[/quote]
Depends on the flexibility of the program, but I've had some
good results with:
Spending a little time talking about the day/what happened since
we last met/what are you reading now...
Writing on a whiteboard with colored markers. Student stands at
the board and can fidget ; ) Take a photo of the board to show
the student's teacher.
Writing with colored pencils and illustrating the writing.
Reading books that have action/motion that can be acted out as
they read. Some of this depends on where you are tutoring--one
of my favorite books to read aloud involves howling and other
wolf-like behavior!
Changing gears as needed. Sometimes my plan of action just
isn't going to work that day.
Changing where you work--different space, outside, under the
table...
Using manipulatives--magnetic letters or words on the
whiteboard, or on the table; figures to represent characters in
the stories for student to use; puzzles; games
Good luck! and enjoy. I fall a bit in love with each year's
student. This year's is my favorite so far--but I say that
every year : )
(ninth year of tutoring through OASIS)
[/quote]
Thanks for the encouragement [member=187]Bobbi[/member] ! I
really want to help this little girl bc reading is SO important
at a young age and I dont want her to fall too far behind her
classmates.
Do you have any handy things you say to get your kiddo to
focus/sit up if theyre squirmy? (Or do you have older students
where that's not an issue?)
[/quote]
I agree--reading is the key to so many things in the early
school years!
I've only worked with kindergarten and first grade students.
They've all had varying levels of squirminess. I wish I had the
magic answer for getting them to focus. What works one week on
one child won't the next week with the same child, or at all
with another student! I use gentle reminders to focus, and
encouragement, reassurance, and praise. I haven't tried it with
my students, but I've read that yoga "belly breathing" can help
with focus.
I put my finger above each word as they read so they don't lose
their place or use plain paper to cover all but the line they're
reading. It seems to be less overwhelming to have fewer words
visible.
There are a lot of good suggestions in the posts here. Breaking
up the time with a short movement break (that last 20 minutes
sounds *so* long!), having something to hold in her hands, and
letting her change position sound great. If there's a way to
turn some of the elements into play or a game or to work small
rewards into the plan, that can help. Does the tutoring space
have a lot of distractions? For my student last year, people
walking past our space caused complete loss of focus.
It sounds like she gets little individual attention at home.
You will make such a positive difference in her life! I believe
that part of a tutor's role is to be an adult friend that is the
child's own.
I tutor at 12:55 PM (Central) on Tuesdays. I'll be thinking of
you and cheering for you!
#Post#: 167838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: Rufus711 Date: February 26, 2023, 9:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I second LesserGoddess. I have a squirmy son to this day. My
son wore out many a bouncyball. And he could concentrate on
something else like learning or playing games while he did it.
#Post#: 167839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: Sahmtoo Date: February 26, 2023, 9:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for doing this! I think you've got a lot of great
advice-- all I want to add is something that helps me when I am
working with a little kid whose not behvaing the way I would
like-- kids want to please us, so even when she's at her most
squirmy, she's doing the best she can. I would focus on finding
things that help her focus her energy, but be aware that while I
expect she'll have an easier time as she gets to know you and
the routine, there will be setbacks too, because of things
neither of you can control.
Have you listened to "Sold a Story"? It's an amazing podcast
that explains, among other things, why it's important to teach
kids to read the right way.
HTML https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/
#Post#: 172025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: billieryder Date: March 15, 2023, 8:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How it it going with the reading tutoring?
#Post#: 172105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: muskrat Date: March 15, 2023, 12:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=billieryder link=topic=1760.msg172025#msg172025
date=1678888792]
How it it going with the reading tutoring?
[/quote]
My first session was pretty meh.
Kid was doing okay at first (despite squirming/some time
wasting), but towards the end where we were doing new reading
(text never seen before), she just shut down. So out of the 5-6
pages we were supposed to read, we got through one.
And I totally forgot to give her mini breaks & give her the
squishy ball to hang on to. ::)
That was back on 28Feb: the two subsequent tutor days, she's
been out of school. Fortunately, the reading coordinator was
able to pull Kid out of class a couple times when she has been
there so at least Kid's still getting some extra help.
So, hope I'll see her next week.
#Post#: 172153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: Queenie Date: March 15, 2023, 2:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
She sounds overwhelmed.
Meet her where she is. There's time. No rush.
#Post#: 172158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Squirmy kid: Help?
By: muskrat Date: March 15, 2023, 2:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Queenie link=topic=1760.msg172153#msg172153
date=1678909251]
She sounds overwhelmed.
Meet her where she is. There's time. No rush.
[/quote]
Interestingly, I ran into the reading coordinator yesterday:
Kid did the same shut down thing with her during their last
session.
When Kid whined she didnt feel like reading, Coordinator said,
Okay, then I'll just have to take you back to your regular
classroom now.
That snapped Kid right out of her mood and she got to work and
did well.
So I'll have to remember that one for next time.
*****************************************************
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