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#Post#: 34058--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: TwoASAPsAgo
Date: October 27, 2021, 1:12 pm
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--- Quote from: Queenie link ---
>
> Regression in puppies isn't unusual at all. So many
possibilities including but not limited to:
> --He's about to have a growth spurt.
> --There's some weird thing that you haven't noticed
distracting him now.
> --Something happened to make him associate sitting at the door
with something bad.
> --It's physically painful for him to sit for a reason you
haven't figured out yet.
>
> So I'd like to know
> What are the "clothes"?
> Do they hurt him when he sits?
> Can he wait at the door in some other position, such as
"stand"?
> Can he sit in other places?
>
> I'm really sorry about the dog park incident. If it really
scared him this might be spilling over in unanticipated ways.
>
> My very first impulse at times like this is to assume that he
wants to do right, but for some reason he just can't. And then
I look for that reason. Did he sit on a bee recently, perhaps
at the door? Did you hang a scary halloween decoration that's
distracting him? Are his "clothes" binding him somehow when he
sits? I'm just grasping at straws here.
>
> Can you tell me more about his behaviour when you ask him to
sit and he doesn't?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks, Queenie. Yes, he was definitely scared. But he seemed
fine with our door routine and sit for the 8 days after, even
while he was wearing a cone.
The clothes so far are a cape-style raincoat (a little
oversized, but not binding) and a soft, sweatshirt-type shirt
that covers his front legs. Neither should hurt when he sits.
They're loose-fitting and soft and stop above his tail.
There are no decorations or other environmental changes near the
door. He's still recovering from some lacerations and bites
from the incident, but none near his backside. He had a mellow
Monday with the trainer and her other dogs, but otherwise has
been with me since he left the ER. I'm not aware of any newer
injuries.
For the door training, I'm using "shaping." So no sit commands
-- he has to figure out what to do (i.e., sit) for me to open
the door and release him to go out. These days, it usually
takes under 15 seconds. Yesterday when I got tired of waiting, I
asked him to sit and also tried the hand signal, both of which
he knows. He just looked clueless or turned away. It took a
few times to get him to understand.
Yesterday and today, he did sit before I gave him his meals
though (again, using shaping). Trainer pointed out that meals
are high value enough that he might push through even if there's
a stressor he's dealing with.
#Post#: 34095--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: Queenie
Date: October 27, 2021, 1:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Is he sitting at other times? Like when nobody asks him to sit?
Have you tried it without the clothes?
I'm all for shaping but if he knows the cue I myself think it's
OK to use the cue. Once.
How is he doing with other cues? Can he, say, "go to bed"?
I love that he's sitting nicely for his dinner. That's a good
sign.
#Post#: 34107--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: TwoASAPsAgo
Date: October 27, 2021, 2:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Queenie link ---
>
> Is he sitting at other times? Like when nobody asks him to
sit? Have you tried it without the clothes?
>
> I'm all for shaping but if he knows the cue I myself think
it's OK to use the cue. Once.
>
> How is he doing with other cues? Can he, say, "go to bed"?
>
> I love that he's sitting nicely for his dinner. That's a good
sign.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, he sits preemptively whenever he wants a treat. This
behavior pre-dated me. He also sits, really close to me on the
couch, whenever I'm "neglecting" him. 🤭 He also sits on
his favorite chair when he's staring out the window. I'm pretty
sure he did all three yesterday, while in clothes.
He is good with "off." But his other commands are spotty at
best. He knows, but usually ignores, "leave it" and "drop it."
The advice I've gotten from three trainers is not to use the
commands until he's more solid on them. So I mostly don't,
since he is not there yet.
He is still with the trainer, so I haven't had a chance to do a
follow-up test on clothes vs. no clothes. When he gets home
today, I'll do that. Hopefully, he will revert back to normal.
🤞
#Post#: 34111--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: Queenie
Date: October 27, 2021, 2:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TwoASAPsAgo link ---
>
> [quote author=Queenie link=topic=166.msg34095#msg34095
date=1635361141]
> Is he sitting at other times? Like when nobody asks him to
sit? Have you tried it without the clothes?
>
> I'm all for shaping but if he knows the cue I myself think
it's OK to use the cue. Once.
>
> How is he doing with other cues? Can he, say, "go to bed"?
>
> I love that he's sitting nicely for his dinner. That's a good
sign.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, he sits preemptively whenever he wants a treat. This
behavior pre-dated me. He also sits, really close to me on the
couch, whenever I'm "neglecting" him. 🤭 He also sits on
his favorite chair when he's staring out the window. I'm pretty
sure he did all three yesterday, while in clothes.
He is good with "off." But his other commands are spotty at
best. He knows, but usually ignores, "leave it" and "drop it."
The advice I've gotten from three trainers is not to use the
commands until he's more solid on them. So I mostly don't,
since he is not there yet.
He is still with the trainer, so I haven't had a chance to do a
follow-up test on clothes vs. no clothes. When he gets home
today, I'll do that. Hopefully, he will revert back to normal.
🤞
[/quote]
The reason I ask is, this indicates that it's not painful for
him to sit.
Do you have kids? One thing that takes a while to figure out
is, progress isn't linear. The slope trends upward but it's a
jagged line. Does that make sense?
If you have no reason to believe that he's in discomfort, or
afraid or any other bad thing, just continue with the positives
and have faith that his progress will trend forward again soon.
He's a good boy.
Really, it sounds like you are doing completely fine. Keep up
the good work!
#Post#: 34122--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: TwoASAPsAgo
Date: October 27, 2021, 2:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Queenie link ---
>
>
> The reason I ask is, this indicates that it's not painful for
him to sit.
>
> Do you have kids? One thing that takes a while to figure out
is, progress isn't linear. The slope trends upward but it's a
jagged line. Does that make sense?
>
> If you have no reason to believe that he's in discomfort, or
afraid or any other bad thing, just continue with the positives
and have faith that his progress will trend forward again soon.
He's a good boy.
>
> Really, it sounds like you are doing completely fine. Keep up
the good work!
>
--- End Quote ---
Ahh, thanks! That is reassuring. Also, no kids, but I do know
what you mean.
I didn't think he's in pain -- but, now that you mention it, my
list of where he sits is the couch and a cushiony chair. So
places with padding. And when he sat for meals yesterday and
today, he went all the way across the kitchen to where his bed
is. That did seem weird at the time, since he normally sits as
close to his food as he can get away with.
Sighthounds supposedly don't like to sit because they don't have
a lot of padding. He seemed to be an exception, but maybe it's
becoming uncomfortable for him as he grows. I'll put a cushion
near the door and see if that helps. Thanks for the idea ... or
leading me to it!
Also, I did stop his pain meds the other day because he seemed
fine. Maybe that was premature. 🤔 He's not whiny about
physical pain, and he seemed limber, so it's hard to be sure.
I'll look more closely into this as well.
Thanks again!
#Post#: 34125--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: Queenie
Date: October 27, 2021, 2:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It's also OK to have him do some other thing, such as a relaxed
down at the door.
#Post#: 34126--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: TwoASAPsAgo
Date: October 27, 2021, 2:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Queenie link ---
>
> It's also OK to have him do some other thing, such as a
relaxed down at the door.
>
--- End Quote ---
True. I'll consider that and also try to confirm if he's
uncomfortable. The poor thing has had a tough couple of weeks,
and I don't want to add to the problem.
#Post#: 34131--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: Queenie
Date: October 27, 2021, 3:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I guess my point is, it's OK to change things up so they work
better for you. Example: LCP is not good at being still when
she is excited. So I give her a job to do, such as "go find me
a toy". So then if someone comes to the door and she is beside
herself with excitement (thankfully she does not jump) and can't
sit, she can go get them a toy instead. This keeps her busy and
the visitor is at least temporarily unmolested.
Sitting is traditional. It's easy to teach. It's a good thing
to have in your skills bag. And if it's working for you then
you should definitely use it.
I just wanted to mention that it's OK to do something different
if it works better for you and Cy.
You really are doing fine and I'm so enjoying your stories.
#Post#: 34137--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: muskrat
Date: October 27, 2021, 3:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
(Warning: buttinski comment....
I love the Adventures of Cy The Wonder Pup and the subsequent
"Dog Whisperer" training hints.
I've never had a dog, so this is really interesting stuff !
ps. Hope lil bro Cy heals quickly: so sorry to hear he got hurt
on the playground : (
#Post#: 34148--------------------------------------------------
Re: training questions
DIR By: guest33
Date: October 27, 2021, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Queenie link ---
>
> I guess my point is, it's OK to change things up so they work
better for you. Example: LCP is not good at being still when
she is excited. So I give her a job to do, such as "go find me
a toy". So then if someone comes to the door and she is beside
herself with excitement (thankfully she does not jump) and can't
sit, she can go get them a toy instead. This keeps her busy and
the visitor is at least temporarily unmolested.
>
> Sitting is traditional. It's easy to teach. It's a good
thing to have in your skills bag. And if it's working for you
then you should definitely use it.
>
> I just wanted to mention that it's OK to do something
different if it works better for you and Cy.
>
> You really are doing fine and I'm so enjoying your stories.
>
--- End Quote ---
Totally agree. Sit is easy, but if he responds to a different
position better, than roll with it.
Our Maya was our first big dog. Knowing she was going to be a
big very stubborn breed, we started her in the general puppy
training class at the local pet store as soon as she was
eligible. We lucked out because the trainer there was a mastiff
expert. We did go one afterwards with an individual trainer.
So day 2 of puppy class, all the other puppies, you could hear
the sound when their behind hit the ground, they were so excited
to do it.
Our Maya - stared at us, and thought about it, and thought some
more and did nothing.
The trainer kept us longer after the class, and worked with us.
We eventually figured out neither a word nor a hand motion got
her to react. But both together, she was happy to show off her
sit.
And my god, the down. Our Maya would take minutes to get
herself down. She would start going into her down, when we spoke
down/did the hand motion, so she reacted right away. But
seriously it was minutes to assume the full position. 😂
We would just look at her in disbelief. How can one dog make
that big of a production to lay down 😁
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