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#Post#: 6368--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: sittinpretty
Date: December 22, 2020, 6:13 am
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Very well said Mistress Sophie...
..always in service,
..sittinpretty...slave of the Shores
#Post#: 6392--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: WanderLust
Date: December 23, 2020, 2:27 pm
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Lady Sophie.
Well spoken, and your perspective is appreciated.
Wanderlust.
#Post#: 6395--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: Jab
Date: December 23, 2020, 9:19 pm
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As a pledged member of Gorean Shores,,
I have pledged to honor and abide by the decisions of the
Council.
Many Ppeople seem to have differing opinions on the situation
involving aura ,Hunter,and rose.
I am in total agreement with Sophie's opinion on this subject.
A bann was needed in this situation,,,,but it also must be
adhered to and not ignored or only served as one chooses
If some public acknowledgement by the parties involved,,as
deemed by Council,,,then a possible reduction ,By Council ,
could be imposed.
We need our Home to be United again,,not split up like waring
tribes.
Respectfully ,
Jab
#Post#: 6432--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: Hunter
Date: December 30, 2020, 7:59 pm
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I have joined this forum for a short time to deal with one or
two matters. I seek no approval and do not aim to change peoples
minds.
I do regret the situation as it stands but My views I do not
regret. My views are long held and I believe strongly reflect
the ideas on what a Gorean place should strive to be.
I regret and am sorry to see that by a small happening GS has
fallen even further into a path of self destruction. But it must
be said that the event at the tavern involving aura and others
did not create the rift, it merely widened it.
Before I answer the words of the council as presented by Sandman
I will present this bit of information that is already known to
some but not all.
From: Gary Melander <poolsidesquare@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2020 3:42 AM
I have no problem with you visiting any room in any of my chats.
You are certainly welcome.
I do have an issue with the GS Council booting paid members.
This affects my business and I wasn't consulted.
GaryM
I also know that the site owner wrote to the council and I
assume informed them of this changed scenario. The council to My
knowledge has remained silent and acted as if it did not happen.
Further to this
Hunter and aura only know of the said ban because some friends
that have access to the corks told us. There has been not a word
from any of you so called leaders. No words in GS nor an email.
No formal manner of informing us at all. That is reprehensible.
You the council beg to be taken seriously yet can not be taken
seriously when a serious matter of correspondence is deemed
unnecessary.
I respect your decision and the right of others to offer their
opinnions.
But the council is right and you are wrong. Even when your are
right if you disagree with the council ever you will pay for it
over the long term. Hardly the stuff of a benevolent government.
Dictatorship is a better description and yet the council itself
is torn apart and each blame the others when confronted. I know
this because I have seen some responses given to others
privately when the decision was challenged.
In reality the whole system of using captaincy and rank as the
carrot on a stick to repress free expression is the greatest
problem GS has and because of this trust is virtually non
existant in GS. Those few that are trustworthy and honorable to
Me know who they are.
I posted this in forum and am posting it here due to the number
of comments.
If you did what your supposed to do in a fair and effective
manner in the first place there would be no comments. If you set
an example in strong and courageous leadership there would not
be dissent and lack of respect.
You are all welcome to express your opinions, respectfully
stated or otherwise. Remember, though you may be entitled to
your opinions, you are not entitled to your own set of facts.
All the facts are there for all to read in the scribing from the
tavern that day. This seems to suggest the council has other
information. That would be untrue. In actual fact there are no
other facts of relevance so people are indeed expressing their
opinions based on what happened not their own version.
The facts are:
aura attempted to murder rose
That is an opinion not a fact.
aura did not try to muder anyone...she roleplayed dealing with
an enemy character..something common on gor and in many gorean
chat homes...true she used the words your dead ...but I would
call that a threat and an expression of will, not a matter of
fact. Since ms rose begged to leave and left on her own two feet
then that is the only relevant fact with regard to the above
opinion.
Perhaps you have forgotten what Gor by the books and by the
example of many other gorean homes on the internet is. It is
violent. slaves and Men fight maim and kill if left to
themselves and that is their right, yet GS has become so tame
its been forgotten. The influence and guidance of the books has
been forgotten also and that is a serious issue.
Whether the roleplay was acceptable to all is a matter for
conjecture and I will admit that ms rose should have been
informed before it began formally though there were warnings
given and ignored at other times as aura indicates in part of
the text. There are varying opinions on what slaves can and
cannot do. Every Free Man and owner decides what that is for His
own property and the council rightly decide on what is correct
for those slaves that wear the gs collar. As far as slave
behaviour in GS goes well who knows what is acceptable. The old
manuals ramble here there and everywhere but there is a lot of
confusion and contradiction.
Let us not mention the banal and childish insults hurled at aura
by so called Free Men in the tavern at the time of the incident.
It is said that Men will often barely notice when slaves fight
and even turn the other way. In this case they noticed but did
nothing until after the event and clearly that behaviour was
unhelpful and completely ungorean.
'A master takes no interest in the squabbles of slaves, it being
beneath him.'
Nomads of Gor Book 4 Page 138
As far as why aura chose to roleplay in this way at that time
and her state of mind, that is not the business of the council
nor anyone else that uses GS however the circumstances are known
to many.
aura is owned by Hunter and he is responsible for her acts
And aura is punishable only by Me. That is a fact. It may be the
only one of any importance.
The council is interfering in something that is not their
concern if we are to be fully truthful here.
The council had a right to judge the death or non death of a non
slave guest within its tavern and no more. However as neither
aura or ms rose wear GS steel they have no authority over them
in any form.
In almost every case of wrongdoing at this level in the past,
the punishment the Council has been a permanent ban or Death.
By all means provide a list of those that were banned or killed.
I've not seen anything more than misbehaving slaves virtually
punished in many long years yet your now saying murder or
killing is ok? Can't have it both ways I'm afraid. The
hypocricy is startling.
Some have said that its wrong to act out violence because it
might affect people in rt. If this is the case then what did
those alleged deaths do?
Yet it is held as a given by a lot of people that come online to
roleplay that once we enter the realm our real life as it were
is of little or no relevance (though of course how an individal
feels in their real time world does affect their experience in
character). Futhermore we step into the realm aware of the risk
and consequence to the character we portray. If one cannot adopt
that philosophy and practice then they have no place in roleplay
to begin with one could argue.
With all this in mind the double standards we are seeing evident
here are surely a concern.
What is the effect on a slave that gets virtually branded? The
council is happy to do that and not worry about the effect and
the slave accepts that or at least says so. Do the people
holding a vitual whip and cutting a slaves virtual skin get
punished? Explain to all where the differences lie.
I say there are no differences and the whole attitude of this
ban and punishment has little to do with what aura did that day
but stems rather from a premeditated mindset.
The fact that the punishment wasn't a permanent ban or death is
in fact merciful on the part of the Council
How magnaminous and noble. Humorous even. To justify an
injustice by claiming leniency is as bizzare and insulting to
people as it gets. It is a sign of weakness and uncertainty no
less.
aura has not apologized for her act nor has Hunter apologized
for her actions-- that is a fact-- and the fact of their silence
speaks volumes.
aura has to say sorry to whom? and for what?
That is not made clear anywhere.
aura did say sorry however and so did Hunter. The transcript of
those words is available. It was said to Master of One in a
formal setting soon after the tavern roleplay. It was assumed
those words were sent to the rest of the council.
When it comes to silence speaking volumes there is no doubt that
council silence over many years when things needed to be said
and done is the loudest thing in Port Kar. If the council
demanded a high gorean standard there are many that would not
be guests or visitors for long. The council has twiddled its
thumbs for years while the Gorean in Gorean Shores has been
diminishing steadily. It can only be described as abject
failure. Before you say oh but its thriving and numbers are up,
the quality is always more important than numbers. It wouldnt
matter if there were a hundred pledges and 200 slaves if there
are no strict gorean standards. It becomes just another chatsite
for meetups.
aura/Hunter have in fact chosen to attempted to manipulate
others behind the scenes.
No idea what this is supposed to mean to be honest, however, as
people are not supposed to speak to us so I've heard (although
most do anyway) how could we manipulate anyone?
Not to mention the fact that I have always found Goreans to be
strong minded people and they decide their own allegiances and
politics. Is the council suggesting Gorean Shores people are
weak and cannot make their own minds up about how they feel and
act?
However lets have some evidence of this allegation also.
aura has not honored the ban.
What ban? The site owner made it clear there is no ban.
The fact is, Council of Captains investigated the occurrence and
gave each of the parties involved in this incident a chance to
speak.
Hardly. You conducted a premeditated open courtroom and only
Master of One had any words with Hunter on the matter. Zoran
tried to speak with aura as well but was silenced. The council
made the council business a public domain and encouraged folks
to help them decide but now when folks express an opinion it is
met with scorn and ridicule . And yet none of it was any
business of the council as I said earlier.
The Council made the decision based on facts-- not based on who
likes who, who thinks who is more Gorean, who is whose buddy.
This statement is both untrue and the ramblings of panic. The
authority of the council is being challenged and made irelevant
when people ignore it so the only answer is to publicly condemn
people when they speak out in opposition. Incidentally as it is
a gorean site being more gorean should be a prime requisite of
entry.
Further it is a fact that the Council made it clear that rose
played a part in this, and has been restricted to only being in
GS with her Master; to the best of my knowledge, she and
Wanderlust have honored that decision.
ms rose is not banned either by Garys words
An additional fact is that there are reports that the Council
has attempted to have aura and Hunter's memberships revoked.
Those reports are incorect. We have never discussed aura's or
Hunter's memberships being cancelled or suspended. That has
never been a part of a ban in the 15 years + I have been
pledged to GS.
Think you will find that Elder Physician was spreading that
nonsense and all thinking people would not take it seriously.
And clearly you have no such power anyway.
Further the statement made by Bretval on the corks offering his
opinion that the Council is getting rid of an irritant -- the
fact is we have tolerated plenty of irritants in GS ( including
him as a tag he has applied with his own words and not us for
the record) over my many years and will continue in the future.
Probably not the place to take a cheap shot at Bretval. What you
really mean is anyone that disagrees with you is a problem. And
the way that is dealt with is to ignore the qualities that are
needed in a captain or any other rank and deliberately and with
malice consistently pass over those that would improve Gorean
Shores in such roles.
By the way I dont mean Myself. I have never held any interest in
being a captain. Indeed I have told people at various times were
it ever offered I would decline. My interest has always been
simply in Gorean Shores being Gorean.
The members of the Council take their responsibilities very
seriously and do not arrive at decisions lightly.
What responsibilities?
Seriously its hardly a mammoth task. Two dozen chatters at most
in GS history but from these words one could be forgiven for
thinking the council thinks it is running a giant corporation.
Lets be brutally honest for once and say the council is nothing
more than a few bullies deciding what chatters may think and say
with no consistency to the standards and with clear bias shown
over a long period of time.
Perhaps some of you should actually consider the facts rather
than ignoring them when you form your opinions and express them
As stated above all the facts are there to read.
The following quote says it very well indeed with regard to all
of this situation that occurred after the event in the tavern
that day and indeed many many times before. It speaks Of the
defensiveness of those that are meant to cater for the best
interests of Gorean Shores and its patrons that come in good
faith to roleplay within a set of ideals and a structure that
protects the Gorean ideal and spirit and in which it has indeed
failed.
It was lovely, and tempting, to exert power over men and to
shine before others, but power also had its perditions and
perils. History, after all, consisted of an unbroken succession
of rulers, leaders, bosses, and commanders who with extremely
rare exceptions had all begun well and ended badly. All of them,
at least so they said, had striven for power for the sake of the
good; afterward they had become obsessed and numbed by power and
loved it for its own sake.
Hermann Hesse
The Glass Bead Game (1943)
Happy New Year all.
Hunter
ps I hereby renounce the pledge. It is not possible to continue
to support the concept of Gorean Shores as long as it is non
gorean and hremains morphed into some kind of romantic getaway.
#Post#: 6445--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: Master of one
Date: January 3, 2021, 5:48 pm
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Bosk,
I am speaking for Myself and not the Council in this post. I
want that to be clear.
In the Council decision - which I will not re-post as it can
easily be found on the corks - I do not see mention of Hunter
apologizing. From what I see aura was the only one told to
apologize.
If I am incorrect in this , please feel free to show Me where
that request was made.
I do not fear, or hide from, criticism, and stand by your right
to be critical, but let's make sure we get the facts correct. In
this case I do not find that to be the case.
Best Regards,
Mof1
#Post#: 6460--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: Kazar
Date: January 4, 2021, 7:33 pm
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Hunter. Yiur sit and knowledge of gor. Will be missed
#Post#: 6461--------------------------------------------------
Re: I am going into self exile.
DIR By: OriginalSandman
Date: January 4, 2021, 9:10 pm
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At this time I am only going to comment one one of the items in
response to Hunter's post:
The Council responded to Gary's email to us within 48 hours.
Gary understands we aren't interfering with his business.
Bans and restrictions haven't been lifted.
OriginalSandman
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