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#Post#: 1715--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental master debating
By: Phil Potts Date: November 17, 2021, 6:27 pm
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[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=83.msg1712#msg1712
date=1637187559]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1701#msg1701
date=1637125582]
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=83.msg1698#msg1698
date=1637115586]
Yeah, tried that, facts and logic stuff, but getting banned from
every peak oil website in the known universe for doing it didn't
trigger any of that thinking brain stuff among the acolytes.
That was visible anyway.
[/quote]
And thats when he swore by Zuess to never make a reasoned
critique again.
[/quote]
Peak oil claimed or occurring in 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2015
and FINALLY again in 2018 not causing the world to end just
doesn't seem to work among the faithful. Do you think another 2
or 3 might finally make the point? ???
[/quote]
You just did make my point. If u got 100 years from F to 1/2,
you don't sputter to a stop on E in under 20 years. You insist
they are wrong if their estimate of having half a tank got one
more mile.
You should put names to the years mentioned, so we can give you
the benefit of the doubt and check if any of them did claim the
end of the world that year, or only whatever problems they
expected going forward occurred.
#Post#: 1717--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: RE Date: November 17, 2021, 7:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Trying to correlate the infection and death rates to population
size and density is problematic. Alaska has one of the lowest
population densities in the world, also did a good 6 months of
lockdown and had good early compliance with vaxx. Nevertheless,
infection rates soared once the lockdowns were lifted. You
can't run lockdowns in perpetuity. It kills off too much
economic activity, which is hard to get back when the lockdowns
are lifted.
So you're going to see this cycle of spikes and lulls continue
for the forseaable future. Fauci admits this already, and they
want to make a distinction between endemic and pandemic. To get
to what you might call the endemic stage, you would need to get
down to the point you're not packing ICUs full even during a
spike. So far the vaxx doesn't do that, so the latest
recommendation from the CDC is MOAR VAXX, of course. Also I
believe Pfizer has a pill that is supposed to make the symptoms
less severe. We'll see how that works out.
Meanwhile, C-19 remains a major Cash Cow for PharmaCo, which
means little incentive to make a better mousetrap. You don't
want to wipe out the disease, even if that were possible, which
it likely is not. You want it to hang around at the endemic
level so it is a continuing revenue stream. This is not
conspiracy theory, it's just how capitalism works.
In the end, I think the same total numbers will come out of
this, just on slightly different timelines. The susceptible
population has to die off and you have to achieve herd immunity.
I don't think the current vaxxes can achieve that, because they
don't last and variants show up that work around them.
Personally, if they paid me enough and served me decent food, I
would volunteer to park my crippled ass in a Covid ward no mask
for a month to see if I can get this bug. lol. I already am
signed up for Comfort-1 when hospitalized, which means no
respirator, no heart jump starts, just heavy sedation until you
buy your ticket to the Great Beyond.
Unfortunately for me, I would probably roll out of the hospital
in a month, still Covid free. :( lol.
RE
#Post#: 1719--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 17, 2021, 8:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]The elite are just as deluded and if anything more so
than average as they are more invested in the status quo. Some
are so enamored by technological solutions that they can't even
imagine it will end. [/quote]
True. Without revolutionary action civilization is doomed. But
without revolutionaries, and we have none, a revolution can't
happen.
#Post#: 1720--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental master debating
By: RE Date: November 17, 2021, 8:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Many Doomers got the timeline for collapse wrong in the past.
Therefore, all Doomers who set a timeline for the future must be
wrong.
If you buy this logic this is your business.
Timelines are estimates, but the trajectory is not. I see no
change here in the second derivative on any important curve.
They all are negative and first derivatives all point down.
RE
#Post#: 1725--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: RE Date: November 18, 2021, 1:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It is the point. You are the king of rinse & repeat. I can't
count the number of times you have dragged out the same tired
argument that Hubbert was wrong, Ruppert was wrong, the LtG was
wrong etc. as your justification for your belief that everything
will be fine, at least until you are dead, then who cares? It's
focking nonsense and is obviously quite wrong, since everything
is already not OK. Except for you of course, because your ice
maker still works.
RE
#Post#: 1726--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental master debating
By: Phil Potts Date: November 18, 2021, 1:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=83.msg1718#msg1718
date=1637200703]
I didn't say anything about the end of the world because of the
6 claimed peak oils so far this century. Folks like Jan
Lundberg did.
HTML https://www.resilience.org/stories/2005-02-18/here-comes-nutcracker-peak-oil-nutshell/<br
/>And legions of others of course.
As far as my sources, sure. What, you think my research on this
has been incomplete? ;D
2002, Colin Campbell, claimed in the 1998 Scientific American
article.
2005, Thanksgiving Day, Deffeyes, with more mentions than I can
count.
2006, the IEA, declared in 2010, after the fact, by Fatih Birol.
He was certain, 4 years after the fact.
2008, The Oil Drum, declared in March of 2009, if memory serves.
2015 Ron Patterson, he of peak silliness at The Peak Oil Barrel,
leftover TOD poster, declared in Oilprice.com I believe
2018, International Energy Statistics at the EIA.
The good doomer stuff was like at dieoff.org and oilcrisis.net,
great stuff back in the day. LATOC self destructed and all that
good stuff was scrubbed in order for Matt to not look like what
he is, last I heard a substitute teacher once the palm reading
gig didn't work out.
Ruppert and Simmons both probably had thrown out a date at one
time or another, but I don't need to pile on, do I? A psyche
ward refugee/discredited pamphleteer and an accountant pitching
natural gas iPOs for the upcoming NG shortages until he got
confused in thinking methane was a poison gas and that nuclear
weapons were needed to stop the Macondo leak. Even TOD couldn't
get far enough away from him at the end.
Would you like to discuss either the nuance of these claims, or
some of the lesser known references, like Ruppert's and Simmons,
or Youngquist, Duncan, Campbells 20th century claims, or even
Hubbert himself? Some of us, we do this research thing, and it
is REALLY cool.
[/quote]
What you should discuss is what any of them have to do with any
of us and of course your own correct timeframe for peak oil.
What are you trying to ridicule all the 'doomers' and 'peak
oilers' about, if none of them claimed the end of the world in
the particular year you focus on? Those years are only a rough
halfway point of oil extraction since the late 19th C.
Lundberg states in that article there should not be a
distraction with the exact year, and a 20 yr range is proposed
between 2005 and 2020. 2005-2012 conventional only, up to 2020
with improved extraction and refining technology. You have made
it almost a year past that.
He then says chaos would ensue a few years after extraction
decline. This is where the crux of whether he is right or wrong
about that lies:
Another common assumption popular among “radicals” is that “the
ruling elite will refuse” to allow the global economy or the
lucrative capitalist system to collapse.
It's a pity he doesn't explain what kind of radicals he is
talking about, or what means would be employed. He goes on under
the assumption it is continued population and GDP growth with a
transition to renewables. That is the future you also assume and
scoff at anyone doubting being possible.
The fact we had covid with a whole new structure coming into
existence is something none of us knew in 2005, but proves
Lundberg right. It did not happen for nothing.
The capitalist system began transforming 2-3 years after he
wrote that. Catabolic capitalism where wealth is transferred
from the bottom and middle toward the top is replacing the
previous capitalist system rapidly. For now, boomers who could
sleepwalk into a job for life with basic literacy and a
comfortable retirement, are mostly insulated from feeling it.
The fact that wealth disparity more than doubled in the past two
years makes it plain that economic activity is no longer needed
other than providing the basics for sustenance, and the 1% can
still get much richer in the process. They don't need people to
fly around and meet face to face for business. Zoom was suddenly
discovered. They don't need people commuting in traffic to jobs.
They can work from home or have the industry shut down. They
don't need a tourism industry. They don't really need most of us
for anything. They only need to preserve oil as Lundberg was
correct is needed to maintain order. tObviously that is to
preserve their own control and standard of living. That is
happening, oil consumption being cut is not an accident.
To me, if half the houses in the street are empty but nobody can
squat in them because they are digitally checked in at their
authorised domicile or quarantine (soylent green) centre every
half hour, that's the end of the world. An end of the world
rapidly becoming reality. I welcome the transition to anarchy he
describes and would have expected more or less the same course
as him before.
With the ratcheting up of control infrastructure, now it has to
come after war. If the United States becomes disunited as there
are signs of, the rest of the western world will follow and the
whole control grid will collapse. Otherwise it will happen with
a world war. The Cold War for me was just a Ronald Reagan
spending spree, Tom Cruise in Top Gun and Stallone on steroids
in Rambo 3. Now you have a declining and dysfunctional
superpower including all western hegemony, against an alliance
that is eclipsing them. History tells us that only ends one way.
If there isn't an answer other than someone else being wrong
about something else, lets consider this settled and nobody is
responsible for anyone but themself. I think refusing to
acknowledge that is what would get you banned.
#Post#: 1728--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: Phil Potts Date: November 18, 2021, 3:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"I gave an example earlier of Hubbert learning in the late
1960's that something was interfering with his forward looking
calculations, and halting publications until he could figure it
out. That is what scientists do."
How do you extract all that from four words "or even Hubbert
himself?" The implication was he belongs with a bunch of dates
for peak oil coming and going as evidence of peak oilers being
wrong if any further pumping happened after each date.
#Post#: 1730--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 18, 2021, 11:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thinking about how much oil is pumped and how much is in the
ground is one thing.
[img]
HTML https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/c581c00e-ade0-4938-b417-a3a152d6dd0e_1.382e04f14e39db3c0784691a299d77b3.jpeg?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF[/img]
From another perspective:
Can't happen again. Hell these fucks even had to shoplift to
finance their fling when gas was cheap. Work was low class then
and still is.
Now to finance their road trip you would have to rob a bank.
They would have.
And for us times are a changing.
#Post#: 1731--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: Digwe Must Date: November 18, 2021, 5:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"When my information changes, I alter my conclusions. What do
you do, sir?" - John Maynard Keynes
Thanks gentlemen, for an interesting discussion. Almost
everyone has contributed so far with some really thought
provoking and intelligent responses. I might have hastily jumped
in - but after our power was restored the conversation had moved
on to Buddy J's take on Peak Oil. Again.
To the larger issue - All of this seems far too coincidental to
me. It no longer seems to me just overstretched systems in a
random cascading failure. Far too interconnected. It smells.
PP -"...The fact we had covid with a whole new structure coming
into existence is something none of us knew in 2005, but proves
Lundberg right. It did not happen for nothing.
The capitalist system began transforming 2-3 years after he
wrote that. Catabolic capitalism where wealth is transferred
from the bottom and middle toward the top is replacing the
previous capitalist system rapidly. For now, boomers who could
sleepwalk into a job for life with basic literacy and a
comfortable retirement, are mostly insulated from feeling it.
The fact that wealth disparity more than doubled in the past two
years makes it plain that economic activity is no longer needed
other than providing the basics for sustenance, and the 1% can
still get much richer in the process. They don't need people to
fly around and meet face to face for business. Zoom was suddenly
discovered. They don't need people commuting in traffic to jobs.
They can work from home or have the industry shut down. They
don't need a tourism industry. They don't really need most of us
for anything. They only need to preserve oil as Lundberg was
correct is needed to maintain order. tObviously that is to
preserve their own control and standard of living. That is
happening, oil consumption being cut is not an accident.
To me, if half the houses in the street are empty but nobody can
squat in them because they are digitally checked in at their
authorised domicile or quarantine (soylent green) centre every
half hour, that's the end of the world. An end of the world
rapidly becoming reality. I welcome the transition to anarchy he
describes and would have expected more or less the same course
as him before.
With the ratcheting up of control infrastructure, now it has to
come after war. If the United States becomes disunited as there
are signs of, the rest of the western world will follow and the
whole control grid will collapse. Otherwise it will happen with
a world war. The Cold War for me was just a Ronald Reagan
spending spree, Tom Cruise in Top Gun and Stallone on steroids
in Rambo 3. Now you have a declining and dysfunctional
superpower including all western hegemony, against an alliance
that is eclipsing them. History tells us that only ends one way.
If there isn't an answer other than someone else being wrong
about something else, lets consider this settled and nobody is
responsible for anyone but themself. I think refusing to
acknowledge that is what would get you banned."
PP is dead right. The situation has evolved far beyond anything
approaching repairable. The game has changed. Every major
system, natural and human that we all depend upon is stressed
and cracking. Not just energy. I also fear a totalitarian
surveillance state more than I fear anarchy. Unfortunately, as
the west disintegrates we will see both, some places in
succession, some places locked down permanently and some beyond
the ability of TPTB to control - too costly. Hunger everywhere -
unless you are a lackey to the elite.
Recently RE asked if it mattered whether famine was 2 years or 6
years in the future. The trend is unstoppable. That's true if
one is taking a more intellectual approach. For us today, it
really doesn't seem important whether Rome fell in 476CE or
earlier in 395 CE when the Huns showed up. But it mattered to
the Romans. Here and now a year will make a difference to
anyone attempting to prepare or at least mitigate some of the
effects of general collapse. Of course, most people will not
prepare for, or even recognize what is going on.
I also agree - I think it was Monsta - the ruling class are not
at peace with each other. They never are. There will be much
collateral damage among the rest of us.
Regarding Chris Martenson, K-Dog is correct that he is selling
something and that his services are not necessary. Generally I
agree. But he offers some comfort to the economically upscale
who sense something is very wrong. He did offer a good primer
to those folks in his crash course. As that did not teach me
much I moved on from Chris. However, when it came to covid he
really did offer something I could not find on my own. I don't
research medical journals and reports. Sometimes even the
abstract is beyond me. Besides I don't even know where to look.
I almost quoted Chris several times over the last few months but
I figured I would hear from K-dog and RE what a scumbag he was
so I didn't bother.
However, he took on big pharma early. He took on Fauci early.
He took on the "wet market" theory and showed the cleavage site
that pretty much convinced many scientists that the things was
from the Wuhan Lab. He took on the NIH for lying about gain of
function research. He showed several studies from places like
Costa Rica, Italy, Spain, etc that showed the effectiveness of
Ivermectin in treating covid. He really took on big pharma over
the vaccines. The waning vaccine effectiveness, the deliberate
suppression of adverse effects reporting, the increasing death
rate in heavily vaccinated countries, mandates where they have
proven ineffective - Chris has noted them all and many more. I
think this is what must pissoff K-Dog the most about Chris.
K-Dog writes eloquently and well about the evils of capitalism.
He correctly and succinctly points out the inherent flaws that
are obvious as soon as the growth runs out. But K-Dog
completely buys into the sales spiel of big pharma. For some
reason, capitalism really sucks and kills people without a whiff
of conscience - except for covid and the pharma industry. Those
who are skeptical of the vaccines are Trump-loving troglodytes
to K-Dog. By the way, K-Dog's web site is really cool and I
recommend it to everyone. If he wasn't wrong about covid he'd
be perfect.
“You can fool all of the people some of time; you can fool some
of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people
all the time.” Attributed to Abraham Lincoln in The New York
Times, August 27, 1887.
First real snow of the year coming down now.
#Post#: 1732--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 18, 2021, 5:13 pm
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Nobody is perfect.
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