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#Post#: 1660--------------------------------------------------
mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 14, 2021, 9:22 pm
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HTML https://youtu.be/b0x8meVJkMw
Well that is the truth. Nothing against Chris personalty, he is
only one of many. If you want the VIP room experience and jerk
off in style you can become a PATREON.
Seriously, it is mental ****. I know of Dr. Martenson from his
videos about peak oil issues and I consider what he did with PO
educational. But Chris has a shtick and we all know it.
So I watched this video with the sole intent to observe how
Chris plays his game. How he convinces you he has a genuine
esoteric message. Chris is very smooth.
[emoji897] [emoji897] [emoji897] [emoji897]
#Post#: 1669--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 15, 2021, 5:57 pm
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No Chris is not the only one. Chris is one of many. I have
been watching the persuasion game for a while because by
understanding it I know what people are really up to.
Chris has a style where he takes great pains to set up trust.
Then he begins to build a scaffold using truths he has twisted
into a desired shape. From that point the rube feels he is
being intellectually stimulated and a Patreon membership might
result. The rube says some more please.
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F802d6aa082570286ba223a477f2abd42%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
Real intellectual stimulation means going down the rabbit hole
yourself. You watch a dude like Chris FOR FREE only for an
orientation. Then you investigate the situation yourself. You
have the same tools Chris does.
Except for the famous people he says he knows. Which is fine,
you don't need them.
#Post#: 1671--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: monsta666 Date: November 15, 2021, 7:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Chris Martenson's Crash Course book/series of YouTube videos is
actually pretty good and breaks down the issues of collapse
quite nicely. It is by no means a definitive series but for
newcomers to collapse it offers a good Premier to our problems.
The issue with Chris is, like many famous bloggers, he does have
an ego. He has gone on and on about the virtues of gold,
commodities and imminent rampant inflation for over 10 years yet
from what I have seen he has not reflected on why this hasn't
happened. Part of humility is assessing why your predictions
went wrong, OWNING IT, then devising a more robust
strategy/theory. People don't diss mistakes if you own them
honestly.
There are bigger issues with his model though and it primarily
centres on him trying to make money from his ideas. Whilst I
wouldnt go so far as to call him unscrupulous or even greedy his
mission to make money does lead him to promoting ideas that are
not really going to help most people. His advice primarily
benefits the upper middle class demographic who are generally
earning six figures. So his ideas of investing in stocks, big
Mcmansion retrofits are not really applicable to greater
society.
More than that though by promoting high value investments he
does, on a certain level have to add more hopium than is ideal.
Either the economy stays steady or we will get a boutique type
economy where the rich or at least comfortable can maintain
their lifestyles while the rest of society is goes to shit. It
is not a realistic proposition and it would behoove to make his
ideals to appeal to a wider demographic... You can see the
problem with appealing to the masses; you can't make money on
poor or lower middle class people.
In regards to covid I did find his stance quite remarkable. For
the first 6 or 7 months Chris highlighted the covid crisis as
the biggest deal ever but in the space of a week or two his view
went 180 and he has essentially lamponned the whole crisis often
describing it as psychosis of the maddness. I personally think
this is viewpoint is extreme and wrong. Now I am not saying the
sky is going to fall with covid but if vaccines never happened
and we simply never socially distanced then the death tolls
would be a lot higher. That is a fact.
Furthermore it is easy to sit on the sidelines and say we should
do the Swedish thing but what happens if you then have to take
responsibility for all those people dying? If you are the
politician with that kind of responsibility you are not going to
make gung ho decisions so he needs to cut people some slack.
This certainty in his convictions in an unpredictable scenario
does highlight a troubling amount of overconfidence and lack of
humility.
What I did find telling was what he said during the period he
thought covid was the biggest problem ever. In one of his videos
he actually starting offering prescription doses to various
medications. He may hold a PhD but he is no medical doctor. The
fact he would do this on a live video without really knowing
what he was doing speaks volumes about his character and
highlights a degree of arrogance and over confidence that should
make you exercise caution when he ventures into any topic with
significant unknowns.
Now don't get me wrong. Whilst some of my comments I made can
sound rather harsh I don't think Chris is wrong in all matters.
You can learn quite a bit from his videos but the key is to look
at what he says with a critical eye. With a good set of critical
eyes you can glean the gems in what he says but discard the
hubris. Check multiple sources and use your brain and common
sense. You may not have the brains he does but a critical mind
some due diligence and little common sense goes a long way.
#Post#: 1674--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 15, 2021, 8:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]You may not have the brains he does.[/quote]
Everybody here has the brains Chris does. Otherwise you would
not be here.
#Post#: 1677--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: RE Date: November 15, 2021, 10:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Many factors besides sheer brainpower factor into your
perspective on collapse issues. Ideology, Political persuasion,
Class, Age, what kind of work you do or did, where you live,
Religion, Age and prior experiences in life, etc. Whether you
are Bullish or Bearish on collapse is some function of how all
the information is processed by your brain.
People who are pro-Capitalism do not see collapse the same way
as those who are pro-Socialism. They might both be genius
Theoretical Physicist who graduated Magna Cum Laude from MIT and
Stanford, but they won't see the issues the same way. People
who have lived their whole life in rural farming communities
don't see collapse the same way lifetime city dwellers do. Old
folks with a comfortable retirement planned with investments
with great cash flow and recent graduates without a pot to piss
in and tons of debt do not view these issues through the same
lens. They could all have identical IQ scores, but their
opinions would be all over the map.
Emotion, Empathy in particular is as important or more important
than IQ. Some people couldn't give a shyt what is going on with
poor folks in Sudan, it doesn't affect them directly so WTF
cares? So what if another 100 species go extinct today? MY
species is still doing OK! lol.
Chris Martenson is a Capitalist, and clearly in this game to
make money. No matter how much money a Capitalist has, he
always aspires to have more. $5M isn't enough for retirement,
you need $10M It's the "Greed is Good" ethos. Will I pay to
listen to these folks spout their take on collapse? Of course
not. I won't even read or watch the shyt they will dish out for
free, because I already know what they will say.
Each of you, all of reasonably high IQ has your own POV on
collapse. Some are more worthwhile than others, one is totally
worthless. Nobody here is making any money from posting their
POV though, far as I know.
RE
#Post#: 1678--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: Phil Potts Date: November 16, 2021, 1:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=monsta666 link=topic=83.msg1671#msg1671
date=1637025103]
In regards to covid I did find his stance quite remarkable. For
the first 6 or 7 months Chris highlighted the covid crisis as
the biggest deal ever
Covid got the rampant inflation you mentioned he needs to
reflect on being wrong about. But what kind of big deal? In
economic terms, govt control, or sickness?
but in the space of a week or two his view went 180 and he has
essentially lamponned the whole crisis often describing it as
psychosis of the maddness.
Isn't that taking stock and owning being wrong like you said he
needs to do?
I personally think this is viewpoint is extreme and wrong. Now
I am not saying the sky is going to fall with covid but if
vaccines never happened and we simply never socially distanced
then the death tolls would be a lot higher. That is a fact.
The Spanish flu lasted about as long as we have had c19, 2 yrs.
I had swine flu that nearly killed me in 2009. That WAS a far
deadlier virus, but no measures were taken. Now it's mild,
probably after the same 2 yr timeframe. In all probability c19
would be benign by now without the intervention attempted.
We were told initially some minor measures were necessary to
flatten the curve. What we have now is the curve flattened on
the Y axis and a complete control infrastructure put in place to
manage collapse and culling.
Furthermore it is easy to sit on the sidelines and say we should
do the Swedish thing but what happens if you then have to take
responsibility for all those people dying?
Sweden is not worse than many of its highly vaxed euro
neighbours so far over the past two yrs, now doing a lot better
than the overall EU. (although 6 of them have halted astraZ for
under 30s or under 20s, other parts of world halted for pregnant
women).
If you are the politician with that kind of responsibility you
are not going to make gung ho decisions so he needs to cut
people some slack.
Politicians are ignoring crowds in the hundreds of thousands
every week. They're protesting those politicians representing
only the interests of their donors in force injecting them with
what they believe is at best dangerous and at worst deadly over
time. We are just a resource that the politicians sell to the
billionnaires who do not want an uncontrolled collapse. You know
the Lord Rothschild quote, that he doesn't care who makes the
laws as long as he makes the money. Politicians are just their
executives. The elite have correctly decreed the planet needs
saving from environmental catastrophe, Gates is given airtime
from the start and his ted talks and other statements say they
want to use vaccines to bring down population. Another variable
he states can come down to achieve the result is services, those
are provided mostly to first world consumers. Two Tesla's in
every driveway charged by renewables for 10b people is just a
bait and switch. Eating bug burgers delivered by uber eats to a
Blackrock repoed domicile you lose in one of the never ending
cycle of compliance test lockdowns doesn't benefit them if you
also lost your job that AI can do instead. Maybe they will be
happy paying ubi and gene editing all resistance out of us, but
I don't see why they would use any fossil fuel for our transport
and comfort.
This certainty in his convictions in an unpredictable scenario
does highlight a troubling amount of overconfidence and lack of
humility.
What I did find telling was what he said during the period he
thought covid was the biggest problem ever. In one of his videos
he actually starting offering prescription doses to various
medications. He may hold a PhD but he is no medical doctor. The
fact he would do this on a live video without really knowing
what he was doing speaks volumes about his character and
highlights a degree of arrogance and over confidence that should
make you exercise caution when he ventures into any topic with
significant unknowns.
If it was something unproven, I agree. If it's the ones making
covid a non issue in India and Africa that otherwise can't even
get rid of malaria, or had Joe Rogan feeling better than ever in
two days, that all the members of Congress have taken, why not?
Now don't get me wrong. Whilst some of my comments I made can
sound rather harsh I don't think Chris is wrong in all matters.
You can learn quite a bit from his videos but the key is to look
at what he says with a critical eye. With a good set of critical
eyes you can glean the gems in what he says but discard the
hubris. Check multiple sources and use your brain and common
sense. You may not have the brains he does but a critical mind
some due diligence and little common sense goes a long way.
This means that if we can not argue with what he says
specifically about covid, whatever other unrelated flaws we find
with him do not make him wrong.
He is wrong that it's a form of mass psychosis like spirit
posession or speaking in tongues, in my opinion. Those are
suggestible people enjoying play acting without accountability.
The motivation for the current crisis is different, involving
saturation messaging 24/7/365. To a lot of people that raises
alarms, just like the level of coordination and preparation from
the beginning. To others it programs them and instills fear and
panic. I think at least 30% were too panicked to think about
whether they knew anyone who died from c19 and then if they were
also under 70 and healthy. As it turned out, the average age of
death was no more than the lifespan. Few people understood 'long
covid' and lung damage on either side of the divide. For me I
thought being 49 at the time, somewhat overweight despite
exercise and a heavy drinker on weekends, I was somewhere in the
middle for risk. I still had a wait and see attitude to vax,
firstly because My state was always covid free, secondly because
I have a long-standing hatred of pharmacos and knew a lot about
how they operate to overmedicate everyone and greatly minimise
and deny side effects. Now, they've reached new unimaginable
lows.
For decades now, the nanny state with ever more regulation and
micro management, has been breeding highly authoritarian people
who revel in reporting anyone they can for any infraction, to
the county, their management, wherever. These are spiteful and
hateful people who love to see other people punished and
prevented from doing things that do not effect themselves at all
or harm anyone else. I have no idea what % of people are like
that, but it's at least 25% in these countries. They have a high
affinity with state sources of authority and will not question
it, no matter how nonsensical the message gets.
Another factor is comfort. At the most, 50% voluntarily were
vaxd without any threat of losing their livihood or freedom.
That 50% simply trusted the govt or love the govt and have their
identity bound up in getting their sense of worth from its
approval. They are not interested in any amount of evidence of
pre-planning or lying by govt, and never question ever changing
messaging.
Another 30 odd % went along for comfort and convenience. They
were not afraid of getting c19 and trusted the Vax far less.
These were all reluctant. In the run up to mandates, nurses were
saying 90% of people getting it did not want it, but were doing
it to keep their job or school, travel, or be allowed in various
venues. All of these people saw the Vax as a risk but hoped
their number would not come up with a clot and estimated the
odds were pretty good. Most of them also resent the rescinding
of their rights. That is why so many vaxd protestors are now
pushing back. They see the broken promise of 'we can all get
back to normal', replaced with a permanent state of emergency
and 'pandemic powers'. If peak shale oil was 2018, then the gdp
growth paradigm has to end and this is a means to achieve it. In
Israel there were a lot of protests by people who had all had 2
shots and did not want a third.
20% will never take an mRNA jab and that's the Pareto principle.
Govt is lying about numbers reached beyond 80%. It was obvious
they could not predict ahead of time with certainty that on this
and that date, X% would be reached in a linear style.
It should also be obvious that we should have run our of unvaxd
to constitute new cases and take all the blame. In the US they
found 40% of children had antibodies to c19. That would
translate to the population at large. Do the math on 5 or 10% of
the remaining 60% and avg daily cases over the past 3 months. 5%
of about 200m people is 10m. If daily cases AVG 100k a day over
90 days, that's 9m. In ten days you run out of unvaxd to explain
the pandemic of the unvaxd.
Of course these are very rough figures and the US is obviously
behind the other most highly vaxd places, but you get the idea.
Look at Singapore or Gibraltar with 99.9% and nothing but
'breakthrough' cases that are orders of magnitude above what
they recorded last year. If you still think this Vax is
effective when the more you cover, the more cases you get,
except for brief breaks, that's blind religious faith. If you
have that type of faith you would literally rather die than
admit the belief system you are at war with was right.
This is how we get so many people with severe side effects
saying 'i did my part, I stepped up, I just want to be heard, I
just want my experience recognised'. They [i]are believed and
recognised, their stories are being shared, along with all the
ones of people who died or do not make a connection between
their illness and the vaccine, after raging against people who
refuse. Those who refuse are the ones who don't think it's all
in their head and want them censored.
[/i]
[/quote]
#Post#: 1679--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 16, 2021, 3:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=83.msg1676#msg1676
date=1637035753]
[quote author=K-Dog link=topic=83.msg1674#msg1674
date=1637029150]
[quote]You may not have the brains he does.[/quote]
Everybody here has the brains Chris does. Otherwise you would
not be here.
[/quote]
Ah...but what exactly are "brains", as it were? Can a polymath
outdo a higher educated specialist? Is a math "brain" of higher
quality than an economist "brain"? Can a better brain sucked
down a rabbit hole and stuck there be of any value to anyone,
including it's owner? Consider a brain, determined only to find
the answer it wants, ignoring what Monsta has been talking
about, and only focusing on evidence supporting a position,
rather than taking a balanced approach?
King Hubbert once stopped a paper from being published, circa
the late 1960's, early 1970's somewhere, because there was this
effect mucking around with his answers, and he knew it and could
see it but hadn't accounted for it in his work. Pulled the paper
from publication until he could get it all worked out, and he
did. Years later the USGS began using exactly his equation,
because he had discovered an important "why", and everyone else
knew it as well.
So...what exactly are "brains" and how do we spot the good ones
versus...say others just as good, but without that critical
component or focus that makes the difference between a "good"
one, and what APPEARS to be a good one but...isn't....?
[/quote]
And at the end of the day you agree with me. Everybody here is
questioning answers. You agree with me by questioning the
definition of good. Logic does the rest. None of us is looking
for a pre-packaged truth. Sometimes lazy, sometimes crazy, but
who here is a pawn of authority? I could be wrong but I'll go
with it. Nobody.
An argument stands on its own to a rational man. The argument
does not wear the suit of its presenter or have the diplomas of
its author. The merits of an argument stand on how well an
argument comports with the actual universe. And nothing else.
For myself and I suspect the rest of us here, Cris talking about
diplomas he has, or that he is well connected with genius means
nothing.
Just tell us the facts and we will figure it out. Keep your
lipstick off the pigs.
[img
width=200]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi1.wp.com%2Fcapitalbooksonk.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F03%2Flipstick_on_a_pig.jpg%3Ffit%3D800%252C450%26ssl%3D1&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
#Post#: 1683--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: K-Dog Date: November 16, 2021, 11:36 am
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[quote]
Chris Martenson is a Capitalist, and clearly in this game to
make money. No matter how much money a Capitalist has, he
always aspires to have more. $5M isn't enough for retirement,
you need $10M It's the "Greed is Good" ethos. Will I pay to
listen to these folks spout their take on collapse? Of course
not. I won't even read or watch the shyt they will dish out for
free, because I already know what they will say.[/quote]
The problem with the free stuff is we know the free stuff pretty
much already.
In my point of view capitalist profit will never give two shits
about peak oil, global warming or the future of humanity. This
makes someone like Chris evil. Chris should know better.
Seriously. Chris can know about a medieval dancing disease and
speak with conviction like he was there. The same brain could
just as well probe the performance of capitalists during the
Russian famine of 1891-1892. Chris could tell us how egregious
government performance failed to take care of the people and how
a generation of activists was created that went on to change the
world.
Chris has the nice guy smile the quiet manner, but everything he
puts out is to directly benefit himself. Without exception.
Of all systems, the political system best able to trash the
world is capitalism. Profit makes exploitative automatons of
all men it enlists to grow the profit pile. Automatons who
cannot appreciate the murderous externalities of what they do.
Does Chris know this about capitalism,? I think he does, If he
does:
[img]
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Is appropriate. IMHO
#Post#: 1701--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental master debating
By: Phil Potts Date: November 16, 2021, 11:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=83.msg1698#msg1698
date=1637115586]
Yeah, tried that, facts and logic stuff, but getting banned from
every peak oil website in the known universe for doing it didn't
trigger any of that thinking brain stuff among the acolytes.
That was visible anyway.
[/quote]
And thats when he swore by Zuess to never make a reasoned
critique again. Thunder crashed and lightning flashed, as he
vowed from that day forth to spread the word that
[shadow=red,left] peak means finished. [/shadow]
#Post#: 1714--------------------------------------------------
Re: mental masterbation
By: monsta666 Date: November 17, 2021, 6:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1678#msg1678
date=1637047327]Isn't that taking stock and owning being wrong
like you said he needs to do? [/QUOTE]
If he did that then it would be fine. Thing is doing a 180 in
such a short period of time is unusual. Normally as the evidence
you get accumulates your viewpoint gradually changes. What is
more during this transition you would normally explain the
reasons for your views changing so people can see your logic.
The thing with Chris is he changed without explaining. If you
also consider that Chris, unlike me and you, is making money
from his messages then there should be a greater expectation you
disclose the reasons for your turnaround. Without this
disclosure this swift 180 closure seems like it could be a cash
grab as he views more money could be had by taking an opposing
opinion.
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1678#msg1678
date=1637047327]The Spanish flu lasted about as long as we have
had c19, 2 yrs. I had swine flu that nearly killed me in 2009.
That WAS a far deadlier virus, but no measures were taken. Now
it's mild, probably after the same 2 yr timeframe. In all
probability c19 would be benign by now without the intervention
attempted.[/QUOTE]
Hard to prove something has never happened but beware that our
appetite for death is far less than the time of the Spanish flu.
Moreover, the widespread suppression of a pandemic is impossible
in this current climate and it was this suppression that allowed
people to ignore it.
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1678#msg1678
date=1637047327][i]Sweden is not worse than many of its highly
vaxed euro neighbours so far over the past two yrs, now doing a
lot better than the overall EU. (although 6 of them have halted
astraZ for under 30s or under 20s, other parts of world halted
for pregnant women). [/QUOTE]
Using the Swedish example is problematic. Sweden is a country
which has a lower population density than most European
countries. There are more single person households than nearly
any where in Europe and the Swedish were much more compliant
with local laws and restrictions than British and dare I say
Americans so what may work there may not work elsewhere. Despite
these favourable factors though the caseload and death rate in
Sweden was worse than its Scandinavian neighbours. In any case
this idea may not work everywhere. UK tried the herd immunity
move by not bringing restrictions but quickly bailed when the
death and infection rate increased alarmingly. Bolsonaro also
tried the Swedish strategy of minimising restrictions and look
at the death rate for Brazil. People globally were appalled with
what happened there but he was trying to do much the same thing
of avoiding restrictions. The only difference were the results
of this inaction were much less laudable so it got ignored by
the pro Swedish model crowd. I am not saying the Swedish way is
always going to lead to disaster but the risks of it ending
badly is greater than if you have restrictions.
If you want to look at the other side of the coin where
restrictions came down hot and heavy then look at China,
Australia and New Zealand. Those countries had the greatest
restrictions particularly for travel yet look at the death rates
there. It is not a one to one relationship as like many things
you can find outliers but on the whole greater restrictions
means less death. However this leads to the point, what do you
do if you follow the Swedish way but instead of getting freedom
you get death by the truckload? This risk means the choice is
not an easy decision to make. Now I am not advocating to go
China or even do what the Aussies or Kiwis did. A middle ground
is needed but wherever decision you make is not easy. On some
level you must sacrifice either freedom or lifes. Go too far one
way or the other and people will hate you for it.
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1678#msg1678
date=1637047327]Politicians are ignoring crowds in the hundreds
of thousands every week. They're protesting those politicians
representing only the interests of their donors in force
injecting them with what they believe is at best dangerous and
at worst deadly over time. [/QUOTE]
There are plenty who protest about covid restrictions but I am
sure there are even more who support current measures. There is
even a sizeable number of folks who want greater restrictions.
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=83.msg1678#msg1678
date=1637047327]We are just a resource that the politicians sell
to the billionnaires who do not want an uncontrolled collapse.
You know the Lord Rothschild quote, that he doesn't care who
makes the laws as long as he makes the money. Politicians are
just their executives. The elite have correctly decreed the
planet needs saving from environmental catastrophe, Gates is
given airtime from the start and his ted talks and other
statements say they want to use vaccines to bring down
population. Another variable he states can come down to achieve
the result is services, those are provided mostly to first world
consumers. Two Tesla's in every driveway charged by renewables
for 10b people is just a bait and switch. Eating bug burgers
delivered by uber eats to a Blackrock repoed domicile you lose
in one of the never ending cycle of compliance test lockdowns
doesn't benefit them if you also lost your job that AI can do
instead. Maybe they will be happy paying ubi and gene editing
all resistance out of us, but I don't see why they would use any
fossil fuel for our transport and comfort. [/QUOTE]
I think there is the idea that the elite have it all figured out
and are running rings round the public. I don't believe in that.
In many ways the elite are just as deluded and if anything more
so than average as they are more invested in the status quo.
Some are so enamoured by technological solutions that they can't
even imagine it will end. Musk probably honestly thinks a Tesla
in every drive is sustainable and he is too up his own ass to
see the light. Plus money and greed can blind people to the
bleeding obvious.
In any case whether they are aware or not is immaterial. The
global economy depends on infinite growth. It is inherently
unsustainable and can't be saved. I also don't believe there can
be a "boutique" economy. By boutique economy I mean one where
the rich maintains its current wealth and status while the rest
of the population rots. If the situation ever gets to the point
where people are dying particularly peoples' kids dying then
there will be blood. There will be an uprising and a change in
power structure will come. In fact before we get to the end
there will probably be a number of power changes. Don't expect
CEO's, big corp and globalisation to be running the show all the
way down to oblivion. We will probably get the breakdown of the
one to many. In other words big mega structures like the USA
will dissolve into multiple countries while supranational
entities like the UN, NATO the EU will go the way of the Dodo.
The biggest question is when not if.
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