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       #Post#: 2957--------------------------------------------------
       West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       By: RE Date: February 26, 2022, 8:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Note they are trying to "spare oil & NG exports".  Do you think
       Vlad will keep shipping them gas if they cut off all the rest of
       the transactions?  I don't.  He'll close the valve.  Whose
       economy will go into a tailspin then?
  HTML https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-european-union-704b3b6678c5d23bd05482c89a0384d2
       West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       RE
       #Post#: 2959--------------------------------------------------
       Ukraine accuses Russia of ‘war crimes’ targeting civilians as fi
       ghting enters Kharkiv
       By: RE Date: February 27, 2022, 3:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Looks like the Urban Warfare part of the drama has begun.
  HTML https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/europe/ukraine-russia-invasion-sunday-intl-hnk/index.html
       Ukraine accuses Russia of ‘war crimes’ targeting civilians as
       fighting enters Kharkiv
       RE
       #Post#: 2960--------------------------------------------------
       Re: West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       By: monsta666 Date: February 27, 2022, 3:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=RE link=topic=70.msg2957#msg2957 date=1645929090]
       Note they are trying to "spare oil & NG exports".  Do you think
       Vlad will keep shipping them gas if they cut off all the rest of
       the transactions?  I don't.  He'll close the valve.  Whose
       economy will go into a tailspin then?
  HTML https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-european-union-704b3b6678c5d23bd05482c89a0384d2
       West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       RE
       [/quote]
       Yes, Europe needs Russia's oil/gas and these measures will
       certainly have blow back however Russia also needs to sell its
       oil/gas to the world to bolster government revenue and build up
       money reserves. If Russia were to cut supplies to Europe then
       they would be cutting of a major source of revenue. Whilst some
       of this oil could be sold to alternative markets/channels it is
       unlikely they could replace European demand with other countries
       so overall, in terms of revenues they would be worse off. Okay
       there is the theory they can make buck with higher oil prices
       but I am willing to wager that if oil hit $150 a barrel then the
       world economy would hit a major recession which would lead to
       oil prices catering in a similar fashion to the covid crisis or
       the financial crisis of 2008.
       Other thing to bear in mind is with less oil revenue that means
       less investment in oil/gas production. Russia is getting close
       to their own peak oil/gas production so stuff like sanctions
       would simply accelerate that trend. If these sanctions were to
       remain in place for a sustained period of time then I would
       expect their peak oil to occur sooner and the decline in
       production to be SWIFTer again harming their economy in the long
       run. Add the cost of war and a potential Afghanistan long term
       war in Ukraine then the costs to Russia will be substantial.
       Let's remember that unlike the US, Russia can't really afford to
       waste trillions in military misadventures as their economy is
       20% smaller than Italy. It is this combination of costs that
       would ultimately cripple Russia and make this a war of
       attrition. Who will last longer Russia or Europe?
       Yes a lot of what I described would also harm Europe but the
       point I am trying to make is that these events will also effect
       Russia in a fairly significant way. Putin may not care because
       at this point he does give a damn about the average Russian
       person but if the oligarchs were to suffer (which they would
       under a oil/gas embargo) then that would be a move that would be
       politically unpopular for Putin. He doesn't want to piss of the
       wrong people.
       #Post#: 2961--------------------------------------------------
       Re: West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       By: Phil Potts Date: February 27, 2022, 4:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=monsta666 link=topic=70.msg2960#msg2960
       date=1645953267]
       [quote author=RE link=topic=70.msg2957#msg2957 date=1645929090]
       Note they are trying to "spare oil & NG exports".  Do you think
       Vlad will keep shipping them gas if they cut off all the rest of
       the transactions?  I don't.  He'll close the valve.  Whose
       economy will go into a tailspin then?
  HTML https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-european-union-704b3b6678c5d23bd05482c89a0384d2
       West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       RE
       [/quote]
       Yes, Europe needs Russia's oil/gas and these measures will
       certainly have blow back however Russia also needs to sell its
       oil/gas to the world to bolster government revenue and build up
       money reserves. If Russia were to cut supplies to Europe then
       they would be cutting of a major source of revenue. Whilst some
       of this oil could be sold to alternative markets/channels it is
       unlikely they could replace European demand with other countries
       so overall, in terms of revenues they would be worse off. Okay
       there is the theory they can make buck with higher oil prices
       but I am willing to wager that if oil hit $150 a barrel then the
       world economy would hit a major recession which would lead to
       oil prices catering in a similar fashion to the covid crisis or
       the financial crisis of 2008.
       Other thing to bear in mind is with less oil revenue that means
       less investment in oil/gas production. Russia is getting close
       to their own peak oil/gas production so stuff like sanctions
       would simply accelerate that trend. If these sanctions were to
       remain in place for a sustained period of time then I would
       expect their peak oil to occur sooner and the decline in
       production to be SWIFTer again harming their economy in the long
       run. Add the cost of war and a potential Afghanistan long term
       war in Ukraine then the costs to Russia will be substantial.
       Let's remember that unlike the US, Russia can't really afford to
       waste trillions in military misadventures as their economy is
       20% smaller than Italy. It is this combination of costs that
       would ultimately cripple Russia and make this a war of
       attrition. Who will last longer Russia or Europe?
       Yes a lot of what I described would also harm Europe but the
       point I am trying to make is that these events will also effect
       Russia in a fairly significant way. Putin may not care because
       at this point he does give a damn about the average Russian
       person but if the oligarchs were to suffer (which they would
       under a oil/gas embargo) then that would be a move that would be
       politically unpopular for Putin. He doesn't want to **** of the
       wrong people.
       [/quote]
       China stockpiled half the world's wheat while the rest of the
       world hit lows on reserves right before Putin took control of
       Ukraine's wheat output which along with Russia's, is what 20-30%
       of global? He made a statement on fixing Ukraine at the Olympics
       alongside xi, so it's safe to say you're talking about the
       biggest economy in the world being involved.
       The western arms industry is talking about ongoing supplies /
       contracts  to Ukraine, but obviously Ukraine is not in much
       position to take delivery of any of it, so the arms and missiles
       will go to all other neighbours especially NATO ones on the
       border. That is certainly enough cause to turn off the gas and
       oil. If they are reaching peak oil, it seems far better to slow
       down production with high price than pump flat out with low
       price, because it puts trying to live post FF further away.
       Then selling oil to Asia at a better price also prevents the
       west ever decoupling from their dependency on Asian
       manufacturing for everything.
       I don't think it's possible to have Ukraine as another Vietnam
       or war on terror by proxy, like arming the afghans in the 80s,
       with a status quo of Russia still supplying energy needs so
       Europe still functions while they do their best to inflict
       maximum damage in return. More likely energy will be dribbled
       out at record price and sometimes sporadically so that frozen
       and chilled foods also at record prices get thrown out and empty
       shelves follow.
       I think regardless of media hype the ukie army is probably for
       the most part going to retreat as fast as the Afghan army did
       and some treaty will be signed in a couple of weeks. Places like
       Poland next are the real question. If they continue the buildup
       and turning off the gas doesn't stop them, they're next.
       #Post#: 2962--------------------------------------------------
       Re: West unleashes SWIFT bans, more crushing penalties on Russia
       By: RE Date: February 27, 2022, 7:47 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think the propaganda that the sanctions will have a
       devastating effect on the Oligarchs by freezing their assets is
       blowing smoke.  Since they knew about the invasion before it
       occurred, they probably moved much of their Wealth into Chinese
       assets.  The Chinese aren't freezing Ruskie assets.
       Far as SWIFT goes, the Ruskies and the Chinese have their own
       clearing system now. All the Ruskie's have to do is clear thru
       the Chinese, then the Chinese clear thru SWIFT.  The only way to
       do stop that end around would be to kick the Chinese off SWIFT,
       and the West won't do THAT.  All commerce on the Planet would
       grind to a halt.
       On the Gas, Russia DOES have a market that can absorb all the
       gas sent to Europe, you guessed it, China.  The infrastructure
       is already there to do it also.
       Vlad did not go into this without a plan to handle economic
       sanctions.  He's not stupid.
       Meanwhile, the western MSM studiously ignores the 1000s killed
       in the war between Donetsk & Lugansk the Ukies have been waging
       for 8 years.  Why didn't Vlad stop there? because unless he
       wiped out the military capability of the Ukies, it would have
       continued.  The rest of Ukraine would have eventually joined
       NATO.  So he went full on with the BLITZKRIEG and went for the
       whole enchilada.
       RE
       #Post#: 2963--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Geopolitics Errata.
       By: monsta666 Date: February 27, 2022, 10:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I am sure Russia can it sell its oil and gas through China or
       other alternative channels. The issue is this oil/gas will sell
       on a discount compared to what it would have sold on an open
       market. We don't even have to speculate this point because for
       many years Iran (like Russia now) has been disconnected from the
       SWIFT system. Iran still sells oil but they do so at a lower
       price than if they could openly trade in the global market. The
       same would likely happen with Russia. Also if Russia do all
       their business with China then naturally China will take
       advantage of the situation by asking for a discount or charging
       a "handling fee" as they would have Russia by the balls. There
       are always disadvantages to these moves but the big point is
       Russia makes LESS money through oil sales than in a BAU scenario
       thus their finances take a hit.
       Sanctions are not game changers as we have seen the effects of
       these on many Arab countries. The status quo (for the elites in
       the country) can be maintained for a long time even with the
       most onerous sanctions that won't be applied to Russia due to
       its strategic resources. What these sanctions will do is add
       additional costs for the country that will degrade its ability
       to fight on multiple fronts (Syria and Ukraine). This is
       increases the probability of a protracted war and if the west do
       supply Ukraine with arms and the Russian are met with fierce
       resistance then this could turn into a very costly operation.
       Other thing to bear in mind is the invasion is the easy part of
       the war. If Russia are successful in their invasion the harder
       occupation phase will begin. At this point I doubt the Ukrainian
       people will lie down with a puppet government and a likely
       scenario is Russia facing a guerrilla war for years to come.
       Russia doesn't have the time or the money to deal with that type
       of conflict. Biggest win for Russia would be a swift victory but
       even in that case these western sanction will likely stay for
       quite some time so the average Russian will be hurting for a
       number of years after the fact.
       #Post#: 2965--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Geopolitics Errata.
       By: RE Date: February 27, 2022, 12:03 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Definitely the Ruskie economy will take a big hit, but the
       German economy (a much bigger one) will take an even BIGGER hit
       without Ruskie NG.  They will have a hard time keeping houses
       warm and lights on, much less manufacturing BMWs.  Poland will
       do even worse.
       Also true is the occupation will be harder than the invasion,
       but Ukies are not Afghanis.  They are not used to living with
       ongoing War since WWII, living in caves in deprivation.  I don't
       think they will maintain armed resistance for long.  They lived
       under the Soviet control for decades.  They'll do it again just
       to get back some normalcy.
       RE
       #Post#: 2966--------------------------------------------------
       Putin orders Russian deterrence forces onto high alert as troops
        battle for control of Ukrainian cities
       By: RE Date: February 27, 2022, 12:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       DUCK & COVER!
  HTML https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/europe/ukraine-russia-invasion-sunday-intl-hnk/index.html
       Putin orders Russian deterrence forces onto high alert as troops
       battle for control of Ukrainian cities
       RE
       #Post#: 2967--------------------------------------------------
       Ukraine war could 'skyrocket' U.S. gas prices to $5 per gallon —
        or more 
       By: RE Date: February 27, 2022, 1:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Speaking of inflicting economic pain...
  HTML https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/local_news/ukraine-war-could-skyrocket-u-s-gas-prices-to-5-per-gallon-or-more/article_46e82018-9731-11ec-ae45-7f1a2fde93bd.html
       Ukraine war could 'skyrocket' U.S. gas prices to $5 per gallon —
       or more
       RE
       #Post#: 2968--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Geopolitics Errata.
       By: Cam Date: February 27, 2022, 5:33 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=RE link=topic=70.msg2967#msg2967 date=1645989604]
       Speaking of inflicting economic pain...
  HTML https://www.wyomingnews.com/news/local_news/ukraine-war-could-skyrocket-u-s-gas-prices-to-5-per-gallon-or-more/article_46e82018-9731-11ec-ae45-7f1a2fde93bd.html
       Ukraine war could 'skyrocket' U.S. gas prices to $5 per gallon —
       or more
       RE
       [/quote]
       What's the average right now? Where I live we're at $1.67 per
       litre which is almost exactly $5 a gallon. Sure am enjoying my
       tiny car. 78hp 3 cylinder makes it not very cool or fast but the
       highest fill up I've had so far is $40! I know the day is coming
       when pick up trucks will no longer be the most purchased vehicle
       in North America.
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