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       #Post#: 1145--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: RE Date: October 7, 2021, 4:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I also can't stand to read Mr. Wizard's material, although I
       tend to reserve my spittle fecked invective for Dr. McStinksion.
       I can't help seeing him wearing that silly Archdruid costume
       with the beard full of 2 day old food particless.  Not to
       mention of course his pedantic style andself-important poturing.
       So I will pass on reading this.
       All of us old timers from the Collapse Community know what is
       going on here, the only difference now is that it is happening
       NOW, as opposed to some indeterminate time in the future.  Few
       paid attention before, and still not that many more pay
       attention now.  People want to believe the problem is soluble,
       if Da Goobermint would just...do SOMETHING!
       Unfortunately, you have half the population getting flooded out
       worrying about Climate Change and the other half unable to heat
       their homes and ride the elevator up to their 22nd floor flat in
       Shanghai.  Which group do you want to sell your Hopium to?
       My personal goal has been reached, which was to stay above
       ground long enough to see the End of the Beginning for
       Industrial Civilization Collapse.
       "This is not the end.  It is not even the beginning of the end.
       But it is the end of the beginning."- Illuminati Scumbag Winston
       Churchill
       Now I can head for the Great Beyond in Peace, and watch the rest
       of the Big Show from up on high. :)
       RE
       #Post#: 1148--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: K-Dog Date: October 7, 2021, 5:07 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I read it but only after checking to see that it was less than
       his usual 5000 words.
       Part of what Guru Types do is capture people by sunk cost.  Once
       you have made a significant investment in time on their ideas
       you have a bias to accept them.  "In for a penny, in for a
       pound".
       A bit rambling and that is another trick.  The brain dead
       template of introduction, document body, conclusion widely
       taught in skoolz does enforce a basic logic to documents.  When
       things are all run together with copious doses or true
       interesting and sometimes arcane facts thrown in at random
       logical weakness is disguised.  That is how I see what John was
       doing here.  He had an opinion and threw a blunderbuss of info
       at us to justify his opinion.  This should not be confused with
       logical rigor.
       Got any facts on that new hidden economy that is paying people
       so well they leave conventional work behind or did you pull that
       from your ass John Greer?
       [quote]If you want people to put up patiently with long hours of
       drudgery at miserably low wages, subject to wretched conditions
       and humiliating policies, so that their self-proclaimed betters
       can enjoy lifestyles they will never be able to share, it’s a
       really bad idea to make them stop work and give them a good long
       period of solitude[/quote]
       Greer crosses lines between historical fact, speculation, and
       conspiratorial thinking.  All over the board.  The above quote
       suggests that there are puppet-masters pulling strings.  The
       actual world we live in is an emergent result of human nature.
       There are no 'puppetmasters'.  We only have rich assholes with
       too much power.  People need stories, they need explanation, and
       when an explanation is lacking people make **** up.  Greer is
       here to help in the 'lets make **** up' dept.
       An invective, no spittle.  I found what he wrote interesting,
       but I think JG was just thinking out loud.
       That quote is something I might write for my own blog when my
       ideas are half-baked.  It is also something I would also delete
       before I published.  (relevance, accuracy, truth) yet to be
       established.  And how does it fit in the whole?
       Greer's speculations are often correct.  So are mine and so are
       yours.  All we lack is the rest of his act.
       I consider JG to be a high functioning libertarian in a dress.
       If you can figure what I think of libertarians by my last phase,
       then you are smart enough not to be one.
       #Post#: 1151--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: Digwe Must Date: October 7, 2021, 6:47 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=K-Dog link=topic=67.msg1148#msg1148
       date=1633644452]
       I read it but only after checking to see that it was less than
       his usual 5000 words.
       Part of what Guru Types do is capture people by sunk cost.  Once
       you have made a significant investment in time on their ideas
       you have a bias to accept them.  "In for a penny, in for a
       pound".
       A bit rambling and that is another trick.  The brain dead
       template of introduction, document body, conclusion widely
       taught in skoolz does enforce a basic logic to documents.  When
       things are all run together with copious doses or true
       interesting and sometimes arcane facts thrown in at random
       logical weakness is disguised.  That is how I see what John was
       doing here.  He had an opinion and threw a blunderbuss of info
       at us to justify his opinion.  This should not be confused with
       logical rigor.
       Got any facts on that new hidden economy that is paying people
       so well they leave conventional work behind or did you pull that
       from your ass John Greer?
       [quote]If you want people to put up patiently with long hours of
       drudgery at miserably low wages, subject to wretched conditions
       and humiliating policies, so that their self-proclaimed betters
       can enjoy lifestyles they will never be able to share, it’s a
       really bad idea to make them stop work and give them a good long
       period of solitude[/quote]
       Greer crosses lines between historical fact, speculation, and
       conspiratorial thinking.  All over the board.  The above quote
       suggests that there are puppet-masters pulling strings.  The
       actual world we live in is an emergent result of human nature.
       There are no 'puppetmasters'.  We only have rich assholes with
       too much power.  People need stories, they need explanation, and
       when an explanation is lacking people make **** up.  Greer is
       here to help in the 'lets make **** up' dept.
       An invective, no spittle.  I found what he wrote interesting,
       but I think JG was just thinking out loud.
       That quote is something I might write for my own blog when my
       ideas are half-baked.  It is also something I would also delete
       before I published.  (relevance, accuracy, truth) yet to be
       established.  And how does it fit in the whole?
       Greer's speculations are often correct.  So are mine and so are
       yours.  All we lack is the rest of his act.
       I consider JG to be a high functioning libertarian in a dress.
       If you can figure what I think of libertarians by my last phase,
       then you are smart enough not to be one.
       [/quote]
       Gosh.  Gee whiz.  Okay, I won't make that mistake again.  But,
       besides that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
       I'm inside for a brief break in between stacking firewood and
       digging spuds.  We are going to finally get a frost tonight and
       preps must be made. I have to butcher at least 12 sheep in the
       next 6 weeks or less, and I really want to have the wood in
       before I start hanging sheep.
       Admittedly, we do not have the shtick that Greer has and I won't
       be wearing the dress.  I already look terrible in shorts.
       Besides, the dress would instantly get filthy here. Regarding
       the Druid thing - I have no interest in it or any religious
       organization. I don't know if you were referring to me, but I'm
       certainly not in for a penny or a pound.  Information comes in
       from many directions.  The fact that the guy is odd does not
       deter me though. I'm a click off normal myself and have have
       learned many valuable things from other fringe dwellers.  He
       started out, as I recall, by telling folks to get familiar with
       small scale alternative power.  I thought that was good and I
       still do.  I usually find it useful to view a problem that I
       have thought about from someone else's perspective.  Sometimes
       that is enlightening.  Other times it solidifies my own view.
       And, as it happens, sometimes I get even more confused.
       But not to worry.  Greer is now added to my list of verboten
       topics of discussion along with Clathrate man.
       Hope you get a chance to check out the low tech solar panel
       article I posted on the energy topic thing.  Pretty cool.
       Back to digging spuds - work I am intellectually suited for.
       #Post#: 1153--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: RE Date: October 7, 2021, 8:32 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=67.msg1151#msg1151
       date=1633650466]
       [quote author=K-Dog link=topic=67.msg1148#msg1148
       date=1633644452]
       I read it but only after checking to see that it was less than
       his usual 5000 words.
       Part of what Guru Types do is capture people by sunk cost.  Once
       you have made a significant investment in time on their ideas
       you have a bias to accept them.  "In for a penny, in for a
       pound".
       A bit rambling and that is another trick.  The brain dead
       template of introduction, document body, conclusion widely
       taught in skoolz does enforce a basic logic to documents.  When
       things are all run together with copious doses or true
       interesting and sometimes arcane facts thrown in at random
       logical weakness is disguised.  That is how I see what John was
       doing here.  He had an opinion and threw a blunderbuss of info
       at us to justify his opinion.  This should not be confused with
       logical rigor.
       Got any facts on that new hidden economy that is paying people
       so well they leave conventional work behind or did you pull that
       from your ass John Greer?
       [quote]If you want people to put up patiently with long hours of
       drudgery at miserably low wages, subject to wretched conditions
       and humiliating policies, so that their self-proclaimed betters
       can enjoy lifestyles they will never be able to share, it’s a
       really bad idea to make them stop work and give them a good long
       period of solitude[/quote]
       Greer crosses lines between historical fact, speculation, and
       conspiratorial thinking.  All over the board.  The above quote
       suggests that there are puppet-masters pulling strings.  The
       actual world we live in is an emergent result of human nature.
       There are no 'puppetmasters'.  We only have rich assholes with
       too much power.  People need stories, they need explanation, and
       when an explanation is lacking people make **** up.  Greer is
       here to help in the 'lets make **** up' dept.
       An invective, no spittle.  I found what he wrote interesting,
       but I think JG was just thinking out loud.
       That quote is something I might write for my own blog when my
       ideas are half-baked.  It is also something I would also delete
       before I published.  (relevance, accuracy, truth) yet to be
       established.  And how does it fit in the whole?
       Greer's speculations are often correct.  So are mine and so are
       yours.  All we lack is the rest of his act.
       I consider JG to be a high functioning libertarian in a dress.
       If you can figure what I think of libertarians by my last phase,
       then you are smart enough not to be one.
       [/quote]
       Gosh.  Gee whiz.  Okay, I won't make that mistake again.  But,
       besides that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?
       I'm inside for a brief break in between stacking firewood and
       digging spuds.  We are going to finally get a frost tonight and
       preps must be made. I have to butcher at least 12 sheep in the
       next 6 weeks or less, and I really want to have the wood in
       before I start hanging sheep.
       Admittedly, we do not have the shtick that Greer has and I won't
       be wearing the dress.  I already look terrible in shorts.
       Besides, the dress would instantly get filthy here. Regarding
       the Druid thing - I have no interest in it or any religious
       organization. I don't know if you were referring to me, but I'm
       certainly not in for a penny or a pound.  Information comes in
       from many directions.  The fact that the guy is odd does not
       deter me though. I'm a click off normal myself and have have
       learned many valuable things from other fringe dwellers.  He
       started out, as I recall, by telling folks to get familiar with
       small scale alternative power.  I thought that was good and I
       still do.  I usually find it useful to view a problem that I
       have thought about from someone else's perspective.  Sometimes
       that is enlightening.  Other times it solidifies my own view.
       And, as it happens, sometimes I get even more confused.
       But not to worry.  Greer is now added to my list of verboten
       topics of discussion along with Clathrate man.
       Hope you get a chance to check out the low tech solar panel
       article I posted on the energy topic thing.  Pretty cool.
       Back to digging spuds - work I am intellectually suited for.
       [/quote]
       JMG is NOT "verbotten" here.   Just K-Dog and I have years of
       experience with him, and he has numerous queer ideas and
       beliefs.  He expects either Raccons or Crows will take over as
       sentient life in place of Homo Sap for instance.  He expects a
       "slow catabolic collapse" rather than a rapid descent to
       crapola.  He's insufferable if you try to engage him in
       conversation and disagree with him.  If you want to cite
       something he wrote though, feel free :)  You will run into
       headwinds though.
       Anyhow, it ain't OVAH till the Fat Lady sings, but she's singing
       quite loud in China, India and Europe at the moment.  I expect
       her voice to become louder here as well.
       RE
       #Post#: 1154--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: K-Dog Date: October 7, 2021, 8:49 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [spoiler][quote author=K-Dog link=topic=67.msg1148#msg1148
       date=1633644452]
       I read it but only after checking to see that it was less than
       his usual 5000 words.
       Part of what Guru Types do is capture people by sunk cost.  Once
       you have made a significant investment in time on their ideas
       you have a bias to accept them.  "In for a penny, in for a
       pound".
       A bit rambling and that is another trick.  The brain dead
       template of introduction, document body, conclusion widely
       taught in skoolz does enforce a basic logic to documents.  When
       things are all run together with copious doses or true
       interesting and sometimes arcane facts thrown in at random
       logical weakness is disguised.  That is how I see what John was
       doing here.  He had an opinion and threw a blunderbuss of info
       at us to justify his opinion.  This should not be confused with
       logical rigor.
       Got any facts on that new hidden economy that is paying people
       so well they leave conventional work behind or did you pull that
       from your ass John Greer?
       [quote]If you want people to put up patiently with long hours of
       drudgery at miserably low wages, subject to wretched conditions
       and humiliating policies, so that their self-proclaimed betters
       can enjoy lifestyles they will never be able to share, it’s a
       really bad idea to make them stop work and give them a good long
       period of solitude[/quote]
       Greer crosses lines between historical fact, speculation, and
       conspiratorial thinking.  All over the board.  The above quote
       suggests that there are puppet-masters pulling strings.  The
       actual world we live in is an emergent result of human nature.
       There are no 'puppetmasters'.  We only have rich assholes with
       too much power.  People need stories, they need explanation, and
       when an explanation is lacking people make **** up.  Greer is
       here to help in the 'lets make **** up' dept.
       An invective, no spittle.  I found what he wrote interesting,
       but I think JG was just thinking out loud.
       That quote is something I might write for my own blog when my
       ideas are half-baked.  It is also something I would also delete
       before I published.  (relevance, accuracy, truth) yet to be
       established.  And how does it fit in the whole?
       Greer's speculations are often correct.  So are mine and so are
       yours.  All we lack is the rest of his act.
       [/quote][/spoiler]
       JMG is NOT "verbotten" here.  I second that.
       The thing with me.  I look at what the people in the doom
       community have done with what they know.  Some of us have gone
       after the limelight and $$.  For most of us there is not a lot
       we can do, so there is not much to criticize, and not many $$ in
       this game.
       But if you have done things in doom to get paid, everything you
       do is open to examination.  You have been influencing.  With
       influencing there is responsibility.  Which to some people is a
       foreign concept.  Does it matter?  **** yes it does since the
       extinction of everybody on the planet is involved.  A
       realization that could lead to revolutionary action someday.
       Or not.
       The only person who is verboten is James Howard Kunstler.  James
       works with Homeland Security.  I know because I am the one that
       got burned at the website he runs for Uncle Sam.  A honey trap.
       So if you post anything about him be kind to me and not be kind
       to him because then I will need to type a sputtering invective
       rant.  And I do have other things to do.  Years ago JHK had some
       good insights.  Now he advocates for freedums, Trump, and voter
       suppression.  It has to do with his Zionism and a damaged soul.
       [img]
  HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fjordanrussiacenter.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F02%2Fimage-1.png&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
       #Post#: 1158--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: RE Date: October 8, 2021, 12:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Can I add Dmitry Orlov to the Verbotten list of Collapse
       Pundits?  lol.
       RE
       #Post#: 1161--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: K-Dog Date: October 8, 2021, 2:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=RE link=topic=67.msg1158#msg1158 date=1633670617]
       Can I add Dmitry Orlov to the Verbotten list of Collapse
       Pundits?  lol.
       RE
       [/quote]
       I forgot about Mr. Ego.  By all means do.
       Is there anyone we actually do like or is having at least one
       character flaw a requirement for membership in the club of doom?
       Ah now I remember.  Orlov had a special request out on his blog
       for a new diesel motor for the boat.
       I guess if he adds magnets to the fuel lines to get impossible
       kilometers / liter, and paints the motor green.  It is all good.
       Several hundred people spent what amounts to hundreds of hours
       listening to an ego rant and cry for a new toy.  And they are
       fine with it.  And Dmitry gets his motor.
       More proof humans are doomed.  And no the problem is not a
       matter of the princess and the pea.  The doom slugs we are
       talking about all went after money.  They could have chosen to
       organize workers standing in solidarity against the man instead.
       And it would be more fun.
       [img
       width=300]
  HTML https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Q-BR9Eo-qbI/Trb3sOA7-sI/AAAAAAAAAII/kLGC0sFQqcI/s1600/pp+web.jpg[/img]
       #Post#: 1162--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: K-Dog Date: October 8, 2021, 2:54 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I like Roger and Greta.
       [img
       width=300]
  HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fa%2Fac%2FRoger_Hallam%252C_2020_(cropped).jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]<br
       /> [img
       width=300]
  HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftherising.co%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2019%2F04%2Fgreta.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
       #Post#: 1165--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: RE Date: October 8, 2021, 7:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Richard Heinberg is OK.  The Post Carbon Institute does some
       good videos.  Chris Hedges also good, particularly on the
       political level.
       Steve Ludlum was GREAT on the Economics.  His "Triangle of Doom"
       should have won the Nobel Prize in Economics.  He called the
       crash in Oil Prices more than 3 years ahead TO THE MONTH!  Who
       says you can't predict the future?
       Ugo Bardi also excellent.
       It's basically a matter of trajectory, not timelines.  The Club
       of Rome did a real good job with the Limits to Growth graph back
       in the 70s.  It has turned out quite accurate in trajectory,
       just slightly off on timeline.  Going back further, Rachel
       Carson also prescient with "Silent Spring".
       I haven't found anyone recently producing good material, but
       then I don't really look around much anymore.  At this point,
       there really isn't much new to say.  It's just a matter of
       watching the newz and the dominoes falling.
       Increasing population, decreasing available energy, at some time
       you reach an inflection point.  This is not Rocket Science or
       Quantum Mechanics, you don't need to be Einstein to work it out.
       If you drive your car at a brick wall at 100mph, predicting the
       future is EZ.  It will CRASH.  duh.  At some point it is too
       late to swerve or jam on the brakes, inertia will carry you into
       the wall regardless.
       Have we reached this point everywhere yet?  Here on the Last
       Great Frontier, no.  Low population, good energy reserves still
       left. However if you ask a Chinese, Indian or European with the
       lights out and no Bacon for breakfast, you probably would get a
       different answer.
       RE
       #Post#: 1166--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Madness of crowds.
       By: K-Dog Date: October 8, 2021, 11:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I am not sure we can count Ugo since he is a Diner.  One of us.
       Richard of course:
       [quote]In other words, power is the key to solving climate
       change—but not necessarily in the way that many pundits claim.
       Solutions will not come just from defeating fossil fuel
       interests and empowering green entrepreneurs; real climate
       progress will require the willingness of large swathes of the
       populace, especially in wealthy countries, to forgo forms of
       power they currently enjoy: comfort and convenience, the ability
       to travel far and fast, and the option to easily obtain a wide
       range of consumer products whose manufacture entails large
       inputs of energy and natural resources.[/quote]
  HTML https://richardheinberg.com/museletter-343-the-only-long-range-solution-to-climate-change
       Thanks for mentioning some good guys.  I needed that.  I can
       think of a few more now.
       I don't like the 'it has all been said before meme.  I
       understand it, I just don't like it.  Besides repetition being
       necessary to fight the erosion of memory, a brand new crop of
       ignorant is always around who has not heard the message even a
       first time.  So the meme is not airtight, but the big thing is
       that what is really going on is frustration at being ignored
       IMHO.
       And:
       [quote]“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow
       man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
       [/quote]
       Your former self is who thinks it has all been said.  The truth
       is we are all too ignorant to ever say it all.
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