DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
Global Collapse
HTML https://globalcollapse.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 2123--------------------------------------------------
Re: High Fertilizer Prices: The History and Future
By: RE Date: December 18, 2021, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=66.msg2122#msg2122
date=1639841239]
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg2121#msg2121 date=1639834380]
Here in Alaska, we have a huge surplus of NG. They still flame
it off from the oil wells because there is no way to ship it
out.
[/quote]
There is a surplus, but no one wants to build an LNG plant on
the Slope. You know, ice and stuff. And no, they don't sit
around burning their natural gas because they are as stupid as
the amateurs who don't know anything about pressure maintenance
in a reservoir.
HTML https://www.eia.gov/naturalgas/weekly/archivenew_ngwu/2021/05_27/
[quote author=RE]
What we need to do is build a fertilizer plant on the North
Slope! Then we can ship tons of the stuff out via the Alaska
Railroad! KACHING!
RE
[/quote]
What we need are Alaskans posting who know something about their
state.
[/quote]
A Fertilizer Plant, not LNG. Read for comprehension. And you
of all people should be able to recognize sarcasm. ::)
RE
#Post#: 2126--------------------------------------------------
Re: High Fertilizer Prices: The History and Future
By: Phil Potts Date: December 18, 2021, 1:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=66.msg2122#msg2122
date=1639841239]
There is a surplus, but no one wants to build an LNG plant on
the Slope. You know, ice and stuff. And no, they don't sit
around burning their natural gas because they are as stupid as
the amateurs who don't know anything about pressure maintenance
in a reservoir.
HTML https://www.eia.gov/naturalgas/weekly/archivenew_ngwu/2021/05_27/
[/quote]
Wait, what?
Because production in the Cook Inlet and the Kenai Peninsula is
declining, the Kenai LNG plant ceased producing LNG in 2015, and
its operators have sought authorization to import LNG to ensure
continuous supply to Anchorage-area consumers. The state
government has also proposed to build, with private-sector
partners, a natural gas pipeline from Alaska’s North Slope to
the south. The Alaska Gasline natural gas pipeline would deliver
natural gas first to the Fairbanks area, where petroleum is used
as the primary fuel for heating and power generation, and
eventually to Anchorage, where the natural gas would supplement
declining in-region production and allow for a restart of LNG
exports from a proposed new 2.55 Bcf/d export terminal. The
Alaska LNG terminal received final export authorization from the
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission in May 2020.
#Post#: 2129--------------------------------------------------
Re: High Fertilizer Prices: The History and Future
By: Phil Potts Date: December 18, 2021, 9:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=66.msg2127#msg2127
date=1639878842]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=66.msg2126#msg2126
date=1639855525]
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=66.msg2122#msg2122
date=1639841239]
There is a surplus, but no one wants to build an LNG plant on
the Slope. You know, ice and stuff. And no, they don't sit
around burning their natural gas because they are as stupid as
the amateurs who don't know anything about pressure maintenance
in a reservoir.
HTML https://www.eia.gov/naturalgas/weekly/archivenew_ngwu/2021/05_27/
[/quote]
Wait, what?
Because production in the Cook Inlet and the Kenai Peninsula is
declining, the Kenai LNG plant ceased producing LNG in 2015, and
its operators have sought authorization to import LNG to ensure
continuous supply to Anchorage-area consumers. The state
government has also proposed to build, with private-sector
partners, a natural gas pipeline from Alaska’s North Slope to
the south. The Alaska Gasline natural gas pipeline would deliver
natural gas first to the Fairbanks area, where petroleum is used
as the primary fuel for heating and power generation, and
eventually to Anchorage, where the natural gas would supplement
declining in-region production and allow for a restart of LNG
exports from a proposed new 2.55 Bcf/d export terminal. The
Alaska LNG terminal received final export authorization from the
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission in May 2020.
[/quote]
The gas surplus is North Slope, not Cook Inlet. The problem for
anyone wanting it is getting it out. LNG tankers don't generally
do ice well. So you can't have LNG when you need it, which tends
to be winter when demand is high. Or you can pipe it. Piping it
cots money, and as long as oil is valuable, no one is going to
sleeve the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline anytime soon.
There is an LNG facility in Susitna, IGU just signed a deal
for HilCorp to supply it,
HTML https://www.alaskajournal.com/2021-01-20/interior-gas-utility-inks-supply-deal-hilcorp-alaska<br
/>in order for them to truck the LNG to Fairbanks to run a small
distribution line.
This is all common knowledge, don't we watch supply/demand
activities anymore, so focused are we on stock shares in Chinese
companies and whatnot?
[/quote]
Thanks for clearing up 'in decline' doesn't indicate surplus.
Oil being valuable, plus more polluting, would be a reason to
access the gas for power generation and heating. You would think
developers must have thought it was viable if they went through
the whole approval process to build the pipe from the north
slope.
#Post#: 2130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: RE Date: December 19, 2021, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
A NG pipeline from the Slope has been discussed for years. I
was not aware that there has been regulatory approval for such a
pipeline. It's a HUGE and EXPENSIVE project. Our resident
expert can pontificate on that.
Even with the approval, it needs financing. Perhaps the
multi-TRILLION dollar infrastructure bill will provide the money
for it. If so, that would do a big reboost for the AK economy.
It also would provide basically free NG to all the towns close
to the pipeline, since they could just bleed off what they need,
which is an insignificant amount.
In the case it was built, then you no longer have the issue of
building a Fertilizer plant on the slope, which as mentioned
would be a bitch. You could build it in Anchorage, right next
to the Port of Anchorage, and ship direct from there to Japan or
China.
RE
#Post#: 2136--------------------------------------------------
Re: High Fertilizer Prices: The History and Future
By: Phil Potts Date: December 19, 2021, 2:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=66.msg2133#msg2133
date=1639928043]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=66.msg2129#msg2129
date=1639886226]
Thanks for clearing up 'in decline' doesn't indicate surplus.
[/quote]
Decline doesn't indicate scarcity either. There has been a
consistent decline in the size of oil fields discovered since
the 1970's. Oil production still goes up. Surplus and scarcity
seems like a better debate within the standard
supply/demand/price context.
[quote author=Phil Potts]
Oil being valuable, plus more polluting, would be a reason to
access the gas for power generation and heating. You would think
developers must have thought it was viable if they went through
the whole approval process to build the pipe from the north
slope.
[/quote]
The reason already exists to get the gas. But not the economics.
And the Trans Alaskan Natural Gas Pipeline hasn't been built.
Only the Trans Alaskan Oil Pipeline.
And my reference was for the LNG facility in Susitna, from which
LNG is trucked to Fairbanks to run a residential distribution
line. North Slope gas right now is used for pressure maintenance
of the oilfields, power generation, heating, etc etc. For which
it is extremely valuable.
[/quote]
You forgot you started talking about Cook inlet and kenai not
having a surplus in response to me posting
the section of your link mentioning them shutting down or
declining, causing the need for the North slope gas.
I got it the first time with susitna gas being trucked to
Fairbanks. What would matter about that is how far the gas is
trucked and cost of oil involved in the trip. Is 1000km round
trip in a truck first more economical than piping it 1000km, and
then for how long that is possible. We're supposed to be using
gas to make oil last longer after all.
This is all in response to RE saying there is a surplus of gas
in alaska but no way to ship it out and they could make a
fertilizer plant on the north slope and use railroad to
distribute it. Everything you said about how difficult it is to
ship that gas out is in agreement. Fertilizer being freighted
around the globe as it is, suggests that making the fertilizer
near the north pole should be about as economic.
I didn't expect the pipeline to have been completed between may
last year (the date mentioned for approval of the export
terminal in your link) and now. First result in go ogling
'Alaska Gasline progress'. It appears to be going ahead:
HTML https://www.permits.performance.gov/permitting-projects/alaska-lng-project
In February, Australia will be airlifting urea at extreme
prices, bought from Saudi Arabia as China is cutting off our
supply to secure enough for themselves. Urea is used in animal
feed, fertilizer and diesel fuel additive. The price of that
additive is already up from about 70c a litre to about 2.00$.
let's see how much it costs with the price gouged and airlifted
across the world urea. End consumer will pay both the govt debt
to get it, in tax and the truckers increased fuel expense.
Supply/demand.
#Post#: 2139--------------------------------------------------
Re: High Fertilizer Prices: The History and Future
By: RE Date: December 20, 2021, 3:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are intermediary solutions that wouldn't require a
trans-Alaska Pipeline.
You could just build a pipeline from the slope to Fairbanks, and
build the Fertilizer?/Urea plant there. Since it is solid or
liquid that doesn't require the cooling of LNG, you can use the
Alaska Railroad with it's current equipment to transport it to
Anchorage. There it could be loaded onto standard container
ships at the Port of Anchorage and not need new facilities for
making LNG and pumping it onto specialized tankers. From there,
it could be easily shipped to OZ, currently short of Urea
because the Chinese have stopped exporting it.
Since the price of Fertilizer and Urea have skyrocketed, this
might be economically feasible.
RE
#Post#: 2142--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: December 20, 2021, 10:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If the main thing you need to make urea is LNG, we could make it
right here. Oz is supposee to be the biggest LNG exporter in the
world. Other countries do more by pipe, but not by ship
#Post#: 2143--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: RE Date: December 20, 2021, 10:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=66.msg2142#msg2142
date=1640016023]
If the main thing you need to make urea is LNG, we could make it
right here. Oz is supposee to be the biggest LNG exporter in the
world. Other countries do more by pipe, but not by ship
[/quote]
NG is the main ingredient for the Haber process, but then you
have two problems, the cost and the pollution. China does it
cheaper and they don't worry about the pollution. You probably
couldn't sell a Fertilizer plant in Fairbanks due to the
pollution, so the idea is probably a non-starter because of
this.
RE
#Post#: 2205--------------------------------------------------
Farmscrapers the Future of Agriculture?
By: RE Date: December 28, 2021, 7:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
How much energy does it take to pump the water up to the top of
the Farmscraper to dribble down to the crops below? Where is
the fertilizer coming from? How much energy to run all the
robots to harvest the food?
Techno-futurist solutions really annoy me.
HTML https://equity.gur
u/2021/12/24/farmscrapers-the-future-of-agriculture-holiday-wrap
-up-wwt-v-bee-v-krn-to/
Farmscrapers the Future of Agriculture?
RE
#Post#: 2206--------------------------------------------------
Re: Farmscrapers the Future of Agriculture?
By: Nearings fault Date: December 28, 2021, 8:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg2205#msg2205 date=1640698369]
How much energy does it take to pump the water up to the top of
the Farmscraper to dribble down to the crops below? Where is
the fertilizer coming from? How much energy to run all the
robots to harvest the food?
Techno-futurist solutions really annoy me.
HTML https://equity.gur
u/2021/12/24/farmscrapers-the-future-of-agriculture-holiday-wrap
-up-wwt-v-bee-v-krn-to/
Farmscrapers the Future of Agriculture?
RE
[/quote]Towers devoted to plants seems like a crazy use of
expensive real estate. There are big metal wharehouses going up
now to grow greens under LEDs in industrial areas where land is
cheaper. Those I think have a future especially in colder
regions that import all their winter greens like here. We have a
2x4x6 ft shelving unit devoted to led grown greens ourselves.
It's very easy maintenance and cheaper then buying. That I could
see becoming mainstream what with California water shortages,
concerns over labour practices and the almost regular ecoli
outbreaks. Picture of our rack attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page