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#Post#: 3171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Nearings fault Date: March 24, 2022, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg3167#msg3167
date=1648137599]
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg3165#msg3165 date=1648123939]
Maybe they can build Vertical Farms?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-know-how-well-survive-the-farmers-facing-ruin-in-americas-forever-chemicals-crisis
‘I don’t know how we’ll survive’: the farmers facing ruin in
Maine’s ‘forever chemicals’ crisis
RE
[/quote]
This is a terrible story. Those poor people. The bio-solids
problem is largely ignored. Biochar would absorb some of the
poisons - but that land is ruined for generations.
[/quote]
They would for sure need to start filtering all their irrigation
water with active carbon and over time the rain would start
washing it away from the top layers of soil.
We are for sure entering the era of continuous monitoring for
buildups of toxins. There is no more taking this stuff for
granted. The new well here is over 300 ft into the granite so
fossil water no ground recharge. The tests look good.
#Post#: 3180--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: March 26, 2022, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brit-shoppers-face-fruit-veg-26506021
#Post#: 3183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: March 26, 2022, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.rt.com/business/552751-italy-farms-risk-closure/
#Post#: 3190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: March 28, 2022, 3:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg3171#msg3171
date=1648140007]
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg3167#msg3167
date=1648137599]
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg3165#msg3165 date=1648123939]
Maybe they can build Vertical Farms?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-know-how-well-survive-the-farmers-facing-ruin-in-americas-forever-chemicals-crisis
‘I don’t know how we’ll survive’: the farmers facing ruin in
Maine’s ‘forever chemicals’ crisis
RE
[/quote]
This is a terrible story. Those poor people. The bio-solids
problem is largely ignored. Biochar would absorb some of the
poisons - but that land is ruined for generations.
[/quote]
They would for sure need to start filtering all their irrigation
water with active carbon and over time the rain would start
washing it away from the top layers of soil.
We are for sure entering the era of continuous monitoring for
buildups of toxins. There is no more taking this stuff for
granted. The new well here is over 300 ft into the granite so
fossil water no ground recharge. The tests look good.
[/quote]
This is important because this stuff is everywhere and is in
your food supply. I happen to know an expert on this subject.
There have been a lot of biosolids spread in the wheat fields of
central Washington state over the years and Phil Small is a soil
scientist who has worked on this problem.. The only ray of hope
involves fungal use. I asked Phil about this story from Maine.
Here is his response.
[b][
There's a lot to cry about here. Forever chemicals are a huge
concern.
I’m wondering if biochar could help to at least stabilize and
hold the toxins?
I really have my doubts that biochar could be used to mitigate
forever chemicals, at least not in a classic adsorption or
fixation sense. But a biologically mediated breakdown process,
like a fungal solution, then yes, bringing in the biochar would
be brilliant.
Washington State is implementing a PFAS action plan, started on
it when the news from Maine first hit (2016? 2017?), and it took
longer than I expected, and they completed it last year:
HTML https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/washington-s-pfas-chemical-action-plan-8208188/
HTML https://ecology.wa.gov/Waste-Toxics/Reducing-toxic-chemicals/Addressing-priority-toxic-chemicals/PFAS<br
/>
Related to this plan. At some point, hopefully, this year, I
will sample soil for PFAS buildup in sludge applied fields. My
one remaining biosolids client (I have had dozens over the
decades) applies septic tank pumpings, so will have forever
chemicals from dishwashing non-stick cookware, other household
uses. Last I heard, we were waiting for the state to choose from
a dizzying array of lab protocols and response criteria. There
is no standard federal approach for testing soil. PFAS is a
family of almost 5000 chemicals, and no one test catches them
all. From the perspective of soils and human health, there is no
satisfying conclusion to this story for land that has received
biosolids. Even if it is below cleanup levels, or even if it is
below detection levels, the system let this through. A failure
in vigilance, a failure in oversight.
I am looking forward to and at the same time am dreading the
results of statewide soil testing. Like fascism, there is no
safe level of forever chemicals in our lives.
For permaculture, one takeaway is that it reinforces the
awareness that the only trustworthy humanure is going to be from
people who live clean and are healthy (no chemo drugs, no
parasites, worms, and such). The Ed Bryant rule: your pee is
pretty unconcerning, but shyte for composting is from household
family only, and then only if you haven't traveled lately to a
place like Panajachel, Guatemala (which I loved visiting) that
don't have established sanitation infrastructure that breaks the
human disease and parasite cycles, that controls the disease
vectors (ie flies, vermin, ...). Ed has a thing also for
avoiding poop from food where cooks and handlers don't follow
sanitation protocols.
Locally, PFAS contaminated drinking water is the
highest-profile problem with wells near the airport due to the
use of firefighting chemicals.
Philip Small, Soil Scientist
Land Profile, Inc.b]
#Post#: 3191--------------------------------------------------
New John Deere Tractors Plow Day and Night With No One in the Ca
b: Autonomous Farming Debuts in 2022
By: RE Date: March 29, 2022, 3:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
They have the Self-Driving Tractors. But do they have the
Fertilizer, Topsoil & Water? The Diesel to run the tractor?
HTML https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/new-john-deere-autonomous-farming-tractors-debut-in-2022/
New John Deere Tractors Plow Day and Night With No One in the
Cab: Autonomous Farming Debuts in 2022
RE
#Post#: 3192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: March 29, 2022, 3:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://doomberg.substack.com/p/farmers-on-the-brink?s=r
#Post#: 3193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: March 29, 2022, 3:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
They can't return to profit if they're gone outta biz. I asked
the owner of Winkleigh Farm, a piggery how much he gets for each
🐖. 250$.
480 yuan is about 100$, say a small farm like that with I don't
know, 200 piggies loses 100$ on each one, that's 20k. Standard
of living drops off a cliff in china once you get out of the
city, there's no way small farmers in china could absorb that.
Uncle Xi had better do something
HTML https://www.reuters.com/article/china-hogs-idUKL2N2VS0HS
#Post#: 3196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Nearings fault Date: March 30, 2022, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg3190#msg3190
date=1648500458]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg3171#msg3171
date=1648140007]
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg3167#msg3167
date=1648137599]
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg3165#msg3165 date=1648123939]
Maybe they can build Vertical Farms?
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/22/i-dont-know-how-well-survive-the-farmers-facing-ruin-in-americas-forever-chemicals-crisis
‘I don’t know how we’ll survive’: the farmers facing ruin in
Maine’s ‘forever chemicals’ crisis
RE
[/quote]
This is a terrible story. Those poor people. The bio-solids
problem is largely ignored. Biochar would absorb some of the
poisons - but that land is ruined for generations.
[/quote]
They would for sure need to start filtering all their irrigation
water with active carbon and over time the rain would start
washing it away from the top layers of soil.
We are for sure entering the era of continuous monitoring for
buildups of toxins. There is no more taking this stuff for
granted. The new well here is over 300 ft into the granite so
fossil water no ground recharge. The tests look good.
[/quote]
This is important because this stuff is everywhere and is in
your food supply. I happen to know an expert on this subject.
There have been a lot of biosolids spread in the wheat fields of
central Washington state over the years and Phil Small is a soil
scientist who has worked on this problem.. The only ray of hope
involves fungal use. I asked Phil about this story from Maine.
Here is his response.
[b][
There's a lot to cry about here. Forever chemicals are a huge
concern.
I’m wondering if biochar could help to at least stabilize and
hold the toxins?
I really have my doubts that biochar could be used to mitigate
forever chemicals, at least not in a classic adsorption or
fixation sense. But a biologically mediated breakdown process,
like a fungal solution, then yes, bringing in the biochar would
be brilliant.
Washington State is implementing a PFAS action plan, started on
it when the news from Maine first hit (2016? 2017?), and it took
longer than I expected, and they completed it last year:
HTML https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/washington-s-pfas-chemical-action-plan-8208188/
HTML https://ecology.wa.gov/Waste-Toxics/Reducing-toxic-chemicals/Addressing-priority-toxic-chemicals/PFAS<br
/>
Related to this plan. At some point, hopefully, this year, I
will sample soil for PFAS buildup in sludge applied fields. My
one remaining biosolids client (I have had dozens over the
decades) applies septic tank pumpings, so will have forever
chemicals from dishwashing non-stick cookware, other household
uses. Last I heard, we were waiting for the state to choose from
a dizzying array of lab protocols and response criteria. There
is no standard federal approach for testing soil. PFAS is a
family of almost 5000 chemicals, and no one test catches them
all. From the perspective of soils and human health, there is no
satisfying conclusion to this story for land that has received
biosolids. Even if it is below cleanup levels, or even if it is
below detection levels, the system let this through. A failure
in vigilance, a failure in oversight.
I am looking forward to and at the same time am dreading the
results of statewide soil testing. Like fascism, there is no
safe level of forever chemicals in our lives.
For permaculture, one takeaway is that it reinforces the
awareness that the only trustworthy humanure is going to be from
people who live clean and are healthy (no chemo drugs, no
parasites, worms, and such). The Ed Bryant rule: your pee is
pretty unconcerning, but shyte for composting is from household
family only, and then only if you haven't traveled lately to a
place like Panajachel, Guatemala (which I loved visiting) that
don't have established sanitation infrastructure that breaks the
human disease and parasite cycles, that controls the disease
vectors (ie flies, vermin, ...). Ed has a thing also for
avoiding poop from food where cooks and handlers don't follow
sanitation protocols.
Locally, PFAS contaminated drinking water is the
highest-profile problem with wells near the airport due to the
use of firefighting chemicals.
Philip Small, Soil Scientist
Land Profile, Inc.b]
[/quote] there seems to be work going on in this space. The
biosolids would be dried and exposed to high temperature
pyrolysis which would break down the PFSAs and result in
producer gas and biochar. You could probably also filter water
through biochar then pyrolise the contaminated biochar in a
gasifier... Small scale of course industrially it would be
expensive like remediation ofost of these persistent poisons.
#Post#: 3198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: RE Date: March 30, 2022, 11:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg3196#msg3196
date=1648654515]
there seems to be work going on in this space. The biosolids
would be dried and exposed to high temperature pyrolysis which
would break down the PFSAs and result in producer gas and
biochar. You could probably also filter water through biochar
then pyrolise the contaminated biochar in a gasifier... Small
scale of course industrially it would be expensive like
remediation ofost of these persistent poisons.
[/quote]
Where does the energy come from for the high temperature
pyrolysis?
RE
#Post#: 3199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Nearings fault Date: March 30, 2022, 12:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg3198#msg3198 date=1648658808]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg3196#msg3196
date=1648654515]
there seems to be work going on in this space. The biosolids
would be dried and exposed to high temperature pyrolysis which
would break down the PFSAs and result in producer gas and
biochar. You could probably also filter water through biochar
then pyrolise the contaminated biochar in a gasifier... Small
scale of course industrially it would be expensive like
remediation ofost of these persistent poisons.
[/quote]
Where does the energy come from for the high temperature
pyrolysis?
RE
[/quote]from the biosolids themselves. They are mostly complex
carbon and hydrogen compounds so they break down to hydrogen and
carbon monoxide which burn and run the reaction and output lots
of heat. You would get left over carbon as biochar just like in
a gasifier. I wouldn't want to run an engine on it but you could
produce district heat or steam...
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