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#Post#: 1106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: October 4, 2021, 10:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg1085#msg1085
date=1633192369]
[quote author=Eddie link=topic=66.msg1084#msg1084
date=1633189212]
The way the Netherlands grows food is the way everybody will be
growing food eventually, because of climate change. But without
abundant power, it doesn’t work.
HTML https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/dutch-greenhouses-go-dark-energy-crisis-worsens-food-inflation-fears-mount-europe.
Got natural gas?
[/quote]greenhouses growing cukes, tomatoes, lettuce in the
middle of winter with gas heat and lights would be a logical
place for peak energy to rear it's head. Since moving to the
apartment as we build the house we have installed a 2ft x4 ft by
6 ft shelving unit covered in mylar with grow lights. We tried
cherry tomatoes and cukes but settled on trays of lettuce
instead. Fresh lettuce all winter hopefully and no trucking and
all the waste heat stays inside ...
[/quote]
In the US 96 million acres are devoted to growing corn, 87
million acres for soybeans and about 37 million acres for wheat.
The greenhouses in the Netherlands cover 25,000 acres.
Some pricey crops can be grown in g-houses for profit, cannabis,
tomatoes, baby greens, some herbs, cukes, peppers - but not
staples. (though in this part of the world cannabis is
considered about as close to a staple as you can get.) In colder
climates the production of dense calories that can be stored
with relative ease is essential.
Greenhouses- on a doomstead level- can be extremely valuable
assets and can be heated with alternative methods. (composting,
wood heat, thermal storage) With a good design a greenhouse can
produce meat (chicken, rabbit) fish, fresh greens, and enough
calorie dense veggies to get you by. Obviously, you need a big
enough facility, and you aren't going to be baking much bread or
making cheese.
Because most of us can't grow grain, spuds are a really good
source of dense calories. They can be grown using many
different methods, some of which are quite compact, for a
significant yield. However, it was a tough year for root crops
around here. Intense heat killed or set back most of the staple
crops. We are going to get about 50% of the spud yield we
anticipated. The carrots fried and about disappeared. The
beets are tiny and tough. The corn did not want to make full
ears and I wound up feeding it to the sheep. The only staple
that gave a good yield were the beans. Pole, fava, and bush of
various types did well. We have some good squash but not a lot
of the heavy winter keepers.
We will be adjusting plans for next year to increase the space
devoted to staples. If yields are going to be disrupted by bad
weather we need more diversity and space to ensure we get some
kind of crop.
What has me very concerned is the availability of animal feed in
the future. Perhaps I should just leave that for another time.
"Collapse is often claimed by us First Worlders, rarely seen.
The most recent peak oil is 3 years in the past, the End of
China thread on the old website was probably 6 years old before
the same ideas were brought here, and Tesla not only didn't go
bankrupt, but is doing quite well.
Seems to me that any time we scream about doom and disaster, we
need to just hesitate for an instant and acknowledge that for
all our caterwauling, the system has been DAMN resilient."
I guess I missed all the screaming and caterwauling (a great
word). I do think the system has been damn resilient - if
you're a billionaire or one who serves them. It all looks
pretty good from orbit.
As long as the elite class can bleed the working classes, write
tax policy to ensure stratified parasitic wealth, impose debt
slavery on the masses and control them with fear and loathing -
you have nothing to worry about. It's all fine. The energy and
resources will always be there - because they've always been
there. Physics be damned. It's been great for the rich and so
it always will be. They demand it - so they expect it.
I've got a pitchfork here somewhere. No lampposts though.
We'll need to use trees.
#Post#: 1107--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: RE Date: October 4, 2021, 1:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg1106#msg1106
date=1633360827]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=66.msg1085#msg1085
date=1633192369]
[quote author=Eddie link=topic=66.msg1084#msg1084
date=1633189212]
The way the Netherlands grows food is the way everybody will be
growing food eventually, because of climate change. But without
abundant power, it doesn’t work.
HTML https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/dutch-greenhouses-go-dark-energy-crisis-worsens-food-inflation-fears-mount-europe.
Got natural gas?
[/quote]greenhouses growing cukes, tomatoes, lettuce in the
middle of winter with gas heat and lights would be a logical
place for peak energy to rear it's head. Since moving to the
apartment as we build the house we have installed a 2ft x4 ft by
6 ft shelving unit covered in mylar with grow lights. We tried
cherry tomatoes and cukes but settled on trays of lettuce
instead. Fresh lettuce all winter hopefully and no trucking and
all the waste heat stays inside ...
[/quote]
In the US 96 million acres are devoted to growing corn, 87
million acres for soybeans and about 37 million acres for wheat.
The greenhouses in the Netherlands cover 25,000 acres.
Some pricey crops can be grown in g-houses for profit, cannabis,
tomatoes, baby greens, some herbs, cukes, peppers - but not
staples. (though in this part of the world cannabis is
considered about as close to a staple as you can get.) In colder
climates the production of dense calories that can be stored
with relative ease is essential.
Greenhouses- on a doomstead level- can be extremely valuable
assets and can be heated with alternative methods. (composting,
wood heat, thermal storage) With a good design a greenhouse can
produce meat (chicken, rabbit) fish, fresh greens, and enough
calorie dense veggies to get you by. Obviously, you need a big
enough facility, and you aren't going to be baking much bread or
making cheese.
Because most of us can't grow grain, spuds are a really good
source of dense calories. They can be grown using many
different methods, some of which are quite compact, for a
significant yield. However, it was a tough year for root crops
around here. Intense heat killed or set back most of the staple
crops. We are going to get about 50% of the spud yield we
anticipated. The carrots fried and about disappeared. The
beets are tiny and tough. The corn did not want to make full
ears and I wound up feeding it to the sheep. The only staple
that gave a good yield were the beans. Pole, fava, and bush of
various types did well. We have some good squash but not a lot
of the heavy winter keepers.
We will be adjusting plans for next year to increase the space
devoted to staples. If yields are going to be disrupted by bad
weather we need more diversity and space to ensure we get some
kind of crop.
What has me very concerned is the availability of animal feed in
the future. Perhaps I should just leave that for another time.
"Collapse is often claimed by us First Worlders, rarely seen.
The most recent peak oil is 3 years in the past, the End of
China thread on the old website was probably 6 years old before
the same ideas were brought here, and Tesla not only didn't go
bankrupt, but is doing quite well.
Seems to me that any time we scream about doom and disaster, we
need to just hesitate for an instant and acknowledge that for
all our caterwauling, the system has been DAMN resilient."
I guess I missed all the screaming and caterwauling (a great
word). I do think the system has been damn resilient - if
you're a billionaire or one who serves them. It all looks
pretty good from orbit.
As long as the elite class can bleed the working classes, write
tax policy to ensure stratified parasitic wealth, impose debt
slavery on the masses and control them with fear and loathing -
you have nothing to worry about. It's all fine. The energy and
resources will always be there - because they've always been
there. Physics be damned. It's been great for the rich and so
it always will be. They demand it - so they expect it.
I've got a pitchfork here somewhere. No lampposts though.
We'll need to use trees.
[/quote]
You do have to take into account the Netherlands has a much
smaller population and smaller land mass. There also will be
available a lot of auto glass and McMansion window lying around
to repurpose. Plenty of Skyscraper glass also since they will
be unusable above around the 6th story. Also, global population
will shrink at the same time. It is true of course you can't
feed 7.5 B Homo Saps with G-H foods.
You probably can make cheese, just probably not from cow's milk.
Laplanders herd Reindeer, we have Moose and there are Bighorn
Sheep around too.
For calorie dense foods, hopefully Whales will rebound after
most Homo Saps die off and commercial Fishing stops. Blubber is
loaded with calories.
Far as the rich are concerned, most of it is paper wealth which
will all burn in the greatest bonfire in all recorded history.
There still will be warlords who take control over resources,
but Bill Gates and Mark Suckerbug are unlikely to be among them.
Look for Drug Kingpins and Al Quaeda Leaders for good models
for this. The current crop of the rich is likely to suffer the
same fate as Nicholas and Alexandra Romanoff, filled full of
lead in a Ruskie basement.
There are always naysayers and deniers floating around, we had
for a long time a dimwit on the Diner who went by the Screen ID
MKing. He made absurd claims about how NG and fracking would
save Industrial Civilization, which now is obviously a stupid
idea. You can't fix stupid.
Fast Forward to today, and we see one domino falling after the
next, all of which have been long predicted. It's not happening
sometime in the future anymore. It's happening NOW.
RE
#Post#: 1130--------------------------------------------------
The last days of the Havemeister Dairy: Alaska’s oldest commerci
al milk producer is shutting down
By: RE Date: October 6, 2021, 6:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This is a loss. :(
The last days of the Havemeister Dairy: Alaska’s oldest
commercial milk producer is shutting down
HTML https://www.adn.com/business-economy/2021/10/06/the-last-days-of-the-havemeister-dairy-alaskas-oldest-commercial-milk-producer-is-shutting-down/
RE
#Post#: 1309--------------------------------------------------
Booze Shortage Coming
By: RE Date: October 17, 2021, 11:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A liquor shortage may make all of this hard to bear.
If everything you just read about food shortages made you want
to take a tequila shot, we definitely understand … but you may
want to hold off. According to NPR, there is a perfect storm of
factors for a booze shortage: The time it takes to simply
produce liquor, the expenses to import it, and the difficulties
associated with sourcing glass. If bathtub moonshine makes a
comeback, we’ll know why
High on the BAD NEWZ list. I give this 10 steps down the
collapse ladder.
Here Are the Groceries You Might Be Missing On Store Shelves
HTML https://parade.com/1277691/jessicasager/food-shortage-2021-list/
RE
#Post#: 1313--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: October 18, 2021, 9:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay - the booze thing has me nervous. Fortunately we have a
still. And it just isn't that hard to make wine or beer.
Alcohol will be an excellent trade good as things get worse.
#Post#: 1498--------------------------------------------------
China short on Food
By: RE Date: November 3, 2021, 1:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, no stories of starvation yet coming out of the Middle
Kingdom, but the Food Shortage problem is already apparent.
Can you imagine if Da Goobermint here warned everyone of
impending food shortage? The shelves at Kroger would empty out
in a day. Perhaps the Chinese don't PANIC so easily.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewIVRXXn2xY
RE
#Post#: 1500--------------------------------------------------
Re: China short on Food
By: Phil Potts Date: November 3, 2021, 5:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg1498#msg1498 date=1635921825]
Well, no stories of starvation yet coming out of the Middle
Kingdom, but the Food Shortage problem is already apparent.
Can you imagine if Da Goobermint here warned everyone of
impending food shortage? The shelves at Kroger would empty out
in a day. Perhaps the Chinese don't PANIC so easily.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewIVRXXn2xY
RE
[/quote]
China is partly responsible for a worldwide food crisis by not
exporting fertilizer, especially to India. They are suddenly
announcing some new way of producing fertilizer with CO2 , so
this might be because they don't have enough energy available
for the usual means.
Somewhere else it was mentioned that peak oil was 2006. I heard
2008 would be it before that, but it is the same thing, 2 yrs is
splitting hairs. Now I hear from the same source that peak
conventional oil was 2006, but peak shale was 2018. This makes a
lot of sense to what is going on now. Growth can not be
profitable long term and does not need to be, because every
stage in the supply chain can supply less and charge more.
Nobody else can start competition because whatever they need is
too hard to get. If you are not part of a giant megacorp and go
out of biz or the end user who ends up homeless, you might need
to go to a new quarantine centre because a lot of zones are off
limit in the pandemic.
It is actually the US Midwest that delivers food aid to numerous
marginal countries otherwise on brink of starvation. It isn't
all free, largely paid for by UN donors. At least that used to
be the case, it may well be a lot more now is devoted to
soybeans for china or ethanol fuel. This time it's opposite,
where villagers still plant by hand and harvest by hand, they
are going to be least affected. Europe is being told they could
end up having to choose between heating and eating.
The news is reporting giant conglomerates that own the Boeings,
coca colas Kellogg's, pharmacos and blackrocks like Unilever are
openly calling the shots at cop 26. Bojo told us bug burgers
will be delicious and China is preparing to grow frankenmeat. I
guess the thousands of sheep and cows I pass between here and
the next town 20km away will be reserved for the apex predators
in this food chain.
#Post#: 1501--------------------------------------------------
Re: China short on Food
By: RE Date: November 3, 2021, 8:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=66.msg1500#msg1500
date=1635933710]
I guess the thousands of sheep and cows I pass between here and
the next town 20km away will be reserved for the apex predators
in this food chain.
[/quote]
This is becoming the case already.
I was at Carr's yesterday and made my usual pass by the meat
counter. I never buy there because they have the highest prices
in the Valley. They had Rib-eye priced at $29/lb!!! That is
QUADRUPLE the price from a couple of years ago.
3 Bears is much cheaper, about half that price, but I fully
expect to see further rise in the prices of beef moving forward
here. You'll have to be a 1%er to afford the stuff quite soon.
Not necessarily a billionaire, but quite rich and out of reach
for the middle class.
Japan's Kobe beef has long been the most expensive in the world,
and it used to cost ~200 for a steak dinner there. Wonder what
it costs now?
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQn16XZdctg.
My appetite is so small 1lb of animal protein lasts me a week or
more, and I am quite OK with fish and poultry, usually smoked.
So I can afford to buy the occasional steak for now. The days
when I LIVED on steak every night are over already for reasons
other than price. I figure it is still at least a couple of
years before I am completely priced out of the beef market.
Fish and poultry should last a while longer, and I am OK with
eating bugs too, long as they are well prepared. A good chef
can make anything at least edible, if not fabulous. At the
moment here on the Last Great Frontier, I don't see starvation
as being a near term problem for me.
Not so in the 3rd World, where many have already been priced out
of the food market.
The Great Culling of the herd has begun. And I am not talking
about herds of cattle.
RE
#Post#: 1504--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: November 3, 2021, 11:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Oats
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=66.msg1500#msg1500
date=1635933710]
[quote author=RE link=topic=66.msg1498#msg1498 date=1635921825]
Well, no stories of starvation yet coming out of the Middle
Kingdom, but the Food Shortage problem is already apparent.
Can you imagine if Da Goobermint here warned everyone of
impending food shortage? The shelves at Kroger would empty out
in a day. Perhaps the Chinese don't PANIC so easily.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewIVRXXn2xY
RE
[/quote]
China is partly responsible for a worldwide food crisis by not
exporting fertilizer, especially to India. They are suddenly
announcing some new way of producing fertilizer with CO2 , so
this might be because they don't have enough energy available
for the usual means.
Somewhere else it was mentioned that peak oil was 2006. I heard
2008 would be it before that, but it is the same thing, 2 yrs is
splitting hairs. Now I hear from the same source that peak
conventional oil was 2006, but peak shale was 2018. This makes a
lot of sense to what is going on now. Growth can not be
profitable long term and does not need to be, because every
stage in the supply chain can supply less and charge more.
Nobody else can start competition because whatever they need is
too hard to get. If you are not part of a giant megacorp and go
out of biz or the end user who ends up homeless, you might need
to go to a new quarantine centre because a lot of zones are off
limit in the pandemic.
It is actually the US Midwest that delivers food aid to numerous
marginal countries otherwise on brink of starvation. It isn't
all free, largely paid for by UN donors. At least that used to
be the case, it may well be a lot more now is devoted to
soybeans for china or ethanol fuel. This time it's opposite,
where villagers still plant by hand and harvest by hand, they
are going to be least affected. Europe is being told they could
end up having to choose between heating and eating.
The news is reporting giant conglomerates that own the Boeings,
coca colas Kellogg's, pharmacos and blackrocks like Unilever are
openly calling the shots at cop 26. Bojo told us bug burgers
will be delicious and China is preparing to grow frankenmeat. I
guess the thousands of sheep and cows I pass between here and
the next town 20km away will be reserved for the apex predators
in this food chain.
[/quote]
As I write this, Oats are selling for $7.50 per bushel on the
Chicago Futures exchange. Standard weight of oats is 32lb. per
bushel. This is triple the price from last year. The national
oat harvest was down from 2020 - but not enough to account for
the huge price rise. Everything is being bought out by the
Chinese. There is no policy in place to guard against US food
prices rising too high as a result of profiteering.
I buy oats from a local farmer by the 1600lb. tote. My price is
based on the price he could get at the Spokane grain elevators.
He does slightly better by selling it to local farmers and folks
with a few head of livestock. For several years now my price has
been 10 - 12 cents per lb. If this current price were to hold
until next year's harvest I will pay him at least 30cents per
lb. I see no reason currently to believe prices will be coming
back down. Globally, as we know, stores of grains are down.
Even if there is a good crop this coming year, prices will have
to stay elevated due to re-stocking.
Obviously, small producers will be cutting way back on the
number of livestock they keep - unless they grow their own feed.
We have always known that a day would come that causes us to
change the way we keep critters. We have several old hens that
my wife has named that sit around on the perch all winter, lay
very few eggs and eat. We have plenty of chickens and that has
never been an issue. It is now. We are being much more
pragmatic. I'm going to be butchering on a much more regimented
basis. The same with the sheep. We will be keeping fewer head
and I am beginning a serious herd management exercise, probably
culling 2/3 of the sheep we have. I have no idea what the hay
situation will be, but I can garunfuckingtee you that hay will
be more expensive - at least.
We have some turkeys. Over the years they have interbred with
the local wild turkeys (Merriams), so some of the turkeys that
are here all year look like large fat wild turkeys. Well, now
in the winter the wild birds show up for the groceries. I feed
oats all winter to our birds and the wilds hang around the
fringes and come in to steal food. Not this year. That is why
God made .410s and .22s.
We are in the forest and do not have large areas to crop and our
topography is not suited to field agriculture anyway. But, we
have patches of ground we've designated to grow some livestock
feed. If I can, I'll accelerate that process. Also, we have
hundreds of trees planted that, as they grow, will be producing
feed for livestock. But this is a long process. We have a
neighbor or two with meadows that could be cut for hay - but for
a while I'll have to import from the valley below.
This is the real deal. It's not coming back to "normal".
RE I wish I could send you some lamb chops.
PP, The Chinese stopping the export of fertilizer to India seems
to be an obvious cause of increased tensions between the two. I
know that Indian troops were employed by the Brits during the
opium wars. Does the tension between the two countries go back
further than that? I think you are obviously correct that the
"solutions", programs and policies are geared to further control
by large corporate interests.
I've read that it takes 4 -5 years to build and begin operating
a fertilizer plant. (not counting the permitting process) I'm
amazed that the US is a net importer of fertilizer, given all
the gas here.
#Post#: 1507--------------------------------------------------
Re: Food Errata
By: RE Date: November 3, 2021, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Digwe Must link=topic=66.msg1504#msg1504
date=1635957921]
RE I wish I could send you some lamb chops.
[/quote]
A Rack of Lamb would be nice. :) It would take me a month to
eat it though. lol. I wonder how much it would cost to air ship
it? Probably more expensive than buying it here, since it is
still available. Around $20/lb I think, maybe a bit less if you
catch a sale at 3 Bears.
As I have said though, all I really need is a relatively small
supply of Smoked Salmon or Gravlax. This is still in good
supply here, despite the problems faced by some of the
subsistence villages. Down on the SE Coast, they had a record
catch this year, despite the Yukon river system being quite
thin. Dungeness Crabs also seem to be doing well, though not my
favorite type of crab. I am good in any event on maybe 1lb of
animal protein/wk these days.
I have also now collected some of my supply of long lasting
dried and vaccum sealed foods from my storage unit. My current
supply of food just in the digs would last me at least six
months, and that is not counting the Mealz-on-Wheelz dogshit
which I mostly throw out. Starvation is not an imminent problem
for me, nor is water also in plentiful supply and free from the
tap. As opposed to my last place, the water here is very good.
It's hard to say how high the retail prices can go before the
market breaks. Like with Oil, once the price gets high enough,
people just can't afford to buy it anymore. With $80/bbl oil,
the market breaks there, more or less. The signs are all there
we are already in recession You are seeing predictions of $120
or even $200 oil, but the economy just can't stand that for very
long.
The next year will be quite interesting on the food level. An
inflexion point is inevitable though.
What do you usually do with your excess lamb chops? Sell them
at a farmers market?
RE
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