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#Post#: 1227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: K-Dog Date: October 12, 2021, 4:48 pm
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1- Capitalism
2- Resource depletion
3- Climate Change
4- Covid
5- Supply Chain Breakdown
Overpopulation should be the first but:
Capitalism which exploits everyone in the service of money,
causes uncontrolled resource depletion and climate change. Not
in a pure sense is there cause and effect, but nothing can done
to address issues of depletion or pollution as long as
capitalism wears the spurs.
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flive.staticflickr.com%2F65535%2F50047991228_e54b501561_z.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
#Post#: 1228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: October 12, 2021, 4:51 pm
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[quote author=RE link=topic=60.msg1224#msg1224 date=1634040313]
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=60.msg1223#msg1223
date=1634024982]
[quote author=RE link=topic=60.msg1156#msg1156 date=1633670247]
Which problem is worst? Rank in order of worst to less worse.
1- Covid
2- Resource depletion
3- Capitalism
4- Supply Chain Breakdown
5- Climate Change
HTML https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/06/offshoring-wealth-capitalism-pandora-papers
RE
[/quote]
1. Climate change. Its going to screw up the whole planet,
including us, very badly, quite soon and for ever.
2. Resource depletion. This will severely restrict the response
to issue1..
3. Covid. Short term mayhem which directly leads to 4, with help
from 2..
4. Supply chain breakdown. Will restrict ability to do anything
short term... Will ultimately lead to lower standards of living,
localisation and return of craftsmanship, acceptable
destinations, but with a hell of a trip to get there...,
5. Capitalism. True capitalism requires trust, a functioning
democracy, and the rule of law. These would not allow
distortions which stop us responding to 1 and 3, and which cause
2 and 4. Dont kid yourself, there has been little to no
capitalism in the west since probably 1945, and definately 1971.
Capitalism allows some to get rich by helping many do well. What
we have now is a system that allows very few to get very, very,
very rich by grinding many into the dirt.
JOW
[/quote]
I disagree. I put Capitalism first, because it is Capitalism
that led to Climate Change and Resource Depletion. Capitalism
is all about unfettered GREED and Privatizing the Profits while
you Socialize the Losses. Capitalists have been moving around
the globe enslaving people, destroying indigenous lifestyle and
leaving a path of destruction in their wake since its inception
in 1692 with the founding of the Bank of England and the British
and Dutch East India Companies. Theyy will continue to destroy
the planet, until there is nothing left to wreck.
Capitalism is the first thing that has to go. Only after it is
dead and buried can you address the problems of CC & RD.
RE
[/quote]
Have to say I think you might have missed two for inclusion in
your top 5 list.
1 Human overpopulation
2 resource depletion
3 climate change
4 general environmental degradation
5 capitalism
2 - 4 are closely related and a direct result of 1. Capitalism
is the means of destruction and a very serious player but I
question whether any economic system developed during the
Industrial Revolution, based on endless growth and unlimited
resources would do better now. Marx didn't worry about
pollution or the environment much. Covid and supply chain
disruption are certainly players. However the supply chain
issue is indeed a direct result of a very fragile capitalist
system set up for maximizing corporate profit and not for
resiliency - in other words a result of 5. Covid,
unfortunately, is very unlikely to be the last or worst of the
pandemics we'll see.
Maybe we need a top ten list.
#Post#: 1229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: K-Dog Date: October 12, 2021, 5:19 pm
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[quote]Capitalism is the means of destruction and a very serious
player but I question whether any economic system developed
during the Industrial Revolution, based on endless growth and
unlimited resources would do better now. [/quote]
A topic for debate. But confining it to endless growth kills
the question. Of course. The exponential function, which COVID
has proved people can't understand, makes it so. Energy
resources are finite, endless growth is not.
Capitalism is particularly pernicious. It depends on owners
controlling capital. Owners exploit, Owners do not take care
of property unless there is a profit motive making it sensible.
Strip mining a resource usually is what happens. Externalities
and consequences are ignored.
Marx saw workers being in charge of the means of production as a
more responsible arrangement. Workers are tied to the health of
a resource directly. They need a resource to work. Depleting a
resource as fast as possible may not always make sense. Owners
are not bound to the health of a resource, but the health of
profit. A result of what money does by abstracting reality.
Profit is all, so capitalism is the efficient way for an economy
to exploit and deplete resources. Capitalism always depletes
resources at a maximum rate because profit is abstract, a notion
on top of property. A notion greed is the good friend of.
Capitalism adds layers of bullshit and useless eaters on top of
everything because it is so efficient. Externalities are
intensified.
[move]Capitalism is a force multiplier of resource depletion and
climate fuckery.[/move]
#Post#: 1231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: RE Date: October 12, 2021, 6:40 pm
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Marx wasn't concerned with the environment, nobody in the 19th
century was. He was just concerned with the economics of
industrialization and class warfare. They did not have the
scientific knowledge or the equipment necessary to understand
the repercussions of CO2 emissions in those days.
The last time catastrophe might have been avoided was in the
1970s, and probably only with a benevolent dictatoship and
strong central planning. Population control would have to have
been implemented and the growth of the consumer culture stopped
in its tracks. Localization and gradual power down should have
been implemented then. In this way we might have bought enough
time for Unicorns to Shit Skittles and develop Fusion Power.
Now it is too late for such solutions.
Time's Up!
HTML https://previews.123rf.com/images/iqoncept/iqoncept1802/iqoncept180200018/94679041-times-up-clock-end-sexual-harassment-abuse-power-3d-illustration.jpg
RE
#Post#: 1233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: Digwe Must Date: October 12, 2021, 7:06 pm
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[
Capitalism is particularly pernicious. It depends on owners
controlling capital. Owners exploit, Owners do not take care
of property unless there is a profit motive making it sensible.
Strip mining a resource usually is what happens. Externalities
and consequences are ignored.
Marx saw workers being in charge of the means of production as a
more responsible arrangement. Workers are tied to the health of
a resource directly. They need a resource to work. Depleting a
resource as fast as possible may not always make sense. Owners
are not bound to the health of a resource, but the health of
profit. A result of what money does by abstracting reality.
Profit is all, so capitalism is the efficient way for an economy
to exploit and deplete resources. Capitalism always depletes
resources at a maximum rate because profit is abstract, a notion
on top of property. A notion greed is the good friend of.
Capitalism adds layers of bullshit and useless eaters on top of
everything because it is so efficient. Externalities are
intensified.
[move]Capitalism is a force multiplier of resource depletion and
climate fuckery.[/move]
[/quote]
[/b]
Marx and you are both very accurate in your criticism of
capitalism. No argument. My view is that the days of the
centralized state, top-down economics are over. Those systems
require growth, abundant energy and an unsustainable level of
control. The current system only functions to subsume the
wealth of the majority and distribute it upwards. We saw today
that now in the US the top 1% has more wealth than the middle
60% !!! Meanwhile kids drink lead. Do I think a Socialist
system would be better than unlimited rapacious pillage and
waste? Sure... Ain't gonna happen before collapse.
My own view of what will work in the future is a flavor of
Mutualism. I'm kind of hacking around in the bushes between
Proudhon, Ghandi and Kropotkin, making my own path - as usual.
One size does not fit all, and long chain, top-down government
or bank direction is inefficient. It requires surplus wealth and
production. I'm not opposed to markets, but feel ownership (and
profits) should belong to those who conceive, build and operate
an enterprise. Financing available through mutually owned
credit unions. Mutual aid in emergencies. Natural resources
commonly owned and managed (locally) for the "greatest good for
the greatest number, in the long run" - G Pinchot. Money
representative of real local wealth. Trade that is truly
beneficial for all participants and the environment... Ain't
gonna happen before collapse.
"Democracy don't rule the world. You better get that in your
head. This world is ruled by Violence, but I guess that's
better left unsaid."
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukLtIRw71tE
#Post#: 1238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: Phil Potts Date: October 13, 2021, 12:39 am
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Capitalists today at the top level are called Globalists. Most
politicians are just sellouts and take orders from them without
thought. A few, like Macron are well on board with the agenda
though, but then he is also a banker and top bankers are also
Globalists . Really the finance industry top level is
interchangeable, because capitalism is no longer really
profitable, it is all about govt intervention at least in the
west.
We like to cite limits to growth, but need to remember who
commissioned it and why. Are they serious about net zero for
western economies by 2030 and chindia by 2050? Indications are
that they are and the promise of 'sustainable growth' in having
it will be a big bait and switch, because it is impossible. The
price of an EV has gone up not down, while the ability of J6P to
buy one IS going down. Something I caught on the radio during my
morning drive today; In response to criticism by the Greens:
"there's no deforestation, forest land is being converted to non
forest land... Carbon Neutral has already been achieved in
Tasmania, it doesn't mean not polluting, it means putting the
pollution in the ground". This was from the State Premier. It's
a reflection on our own demoralised state more than his weasel
words, that this is acceptable, even possible to say.
Yes I know..in the great reset you do not own anything like
cars and houses or even appliances. 'You will own nothing and be
happy', sounds like more bullshit, not because materiistic
consumer culture is fulfilling, but because thought policed
enslavement is even worse.
It's not unreasonable to assume that the real controllers of
this system, don't plan on allowing us to consume resources
until there are not enough left to also run their apparatus of
control. It's worth trying to make sense of what the future
described as 4IR, B3W build back better and Great Reset really
have in store.
Im going with moral and spiritual malaise as number 1 problem
driving collapse.
#Post#: 1266--------------------------------------------------
'Ghost towns': Evergrande crisis shines a light on China's milli
ons of empty homes
By: RE Date: October 15, 2021, 3:00 am
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Time to Short the "Long Game".
'Ghost towns': Evergrande crisis shines a light on China's
millions of empty homes
HTML https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/14/business/evergrande-china-property-ghost-towns-intl-hnk/index.html
The Chinese are TOAST.
RE
#Post#: 1268--------------------------------------------------
Waitress! Waitress! Where's the waitress?
By: RE Date: October 15, 2021, 9:03 am
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HTML https://thetakeout.com/restaurant-workers-staff-shortage-quit-service-industr-1847847541
Low paid, shit jobs are a dime a dozen these days The employers
wonder why it's hard to find new wage slaves?
How are these folks getting by? Well, first off many are young,
still living with parents. Older ones move back in with retired
parents. Or they go "back to school" for the mythical "high
paying jobs" left out there. Take out some loans you will never
pay back and coast.
Even Trucking which here in the FSoA pays OK if you can stand
the endless hours and boredom can't find enough drivers to take
away the Chinese crap stacked up at the port of Long Beach.
Last time I talked to LD, I think he was making close to 6
figures.
You can't even go into a Mickey D's these days that isn't short
staffed. They don't even need waitresses. 3-5 people/shift can
handle the establishment. 1 for the counter register, 1 for the
drive thru and 2 cooks. Many will offer just drive-thru now,
That gets rid of busing tables and the counter cashier and 1
cook. Now you only need 2 wage slaves!
Add to this the insane prices you have to pay for even crap food
dining out, why would anyone pay for that shit? You can drop
$30 for 2 people at Carl's Jr., no problem.
Expect more restaurants to disappear this year. Hopefully, you
will still be able to find food at Safeway to dine in.
RE
#Post#: 1269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: K-Dog Date: October 15, 2021, 2:32 pm
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True words. Everything is imploding.
Lines of cars waiting to get fast food.
[img
width=500]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.simplemost.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F10%2F18756038595_52505cf044_b.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
Figure a 7 minute wait for each car.
( 7/60 * 0.17) gallons = 0.02 gallons
0.02 gallons * (8,650 grams) of carbon dioxide / gallon gives
173 grams / car
[move]Nobody turns their engine off.[/move]
#Post#: 1279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Economy Errata
By: Nearings fault Date: October 15, 2021, 7:49 pm
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I moved back to a rural area once I had my qualifications in
hand. That is the best of both worlds in my opinion. Never had
to look for work and cost of living is lower.
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