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#Post#: 906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: RE Date: September 11, 2021, 2:31 pm
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Whether or not this bill is passed, the chances of meeting these
goals are slim and none.
No Coal AND no NG by 2030? hahahahahaha. not at current
population level anyhow. Maybe with a 99.9% die off we can get
there.
HTML https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/09/heres-how-the-us-will-tackle-climate-change-with-the-3-5t-reconciliation-bill/
Exactly WHAT is going to replace all the Coal and NG Power
Plants? They are going to build 1000 new Nukes in 10 years?
What?
RE
#Post#: 908--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: Nearings fault Date: September 11, 2021, 4:00 pm
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[quote author=RE link=topic=49.msg906#msg906 date=1631388683]
Whether or not this bill is passed, the chances of meeting these
goals are slim and none.
No Coal AND no NG by 2030? hahahahahaha. not at current
population level anyhow. Maybe with a 99.9% die off we can get
there.
HTML https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/09/heres-how-the-us-will-tackle-climate-change-with-the-3-5t-reconciliation-bill/
Exactly WHAT is going to replace all the Coal and NG Power
Plants? They are going to build 1000 new Nukes in 10 years?
What?
RE
[/quote]
That link reads like a starting point to me. Your wish list
before it gets negotiated down. Coal is definitely in the cross
hairs. But that infrastructure is mostly old anyways. Industry
gets money for shutting down something they would not have
renewed anyways since it's already more expensive. What replaces
it? A shit tonne of solar and wind and dozens of coming online
storage technologies. Batteries, lithium and other chemistries
that are maturing right now also pumped storage, pressurized air
storage, gravity storage to name just a few. The natural gas
stays in place and works at full capacity to balance things out.
#Post#: 909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: John of Wallan Date: September 11, 2021, 4:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=49.msg906#msg906 date=1631388683]
Whether or not this bill is passed, the chances of meeting these
goals are slim and none.
No Coal AND no NG by 2030? hahahahahaha. not at current
population level anyhow. Maybe with a 99.9% die off we can get
there.
HTML https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/09/heres-how-the-us-will-tackle-climate-change-with-the-3-5t-reconciliation-bill/
Exactly WHAT is going to replace all the Coal and NG Power
Plants? They are going to build 1000 new Nukes in 10 years?
What?
RE
[/quote]
I agree. Its become a left/ right political issue now, so
nothing will change. We will bumble along addicted to fossil
fuels until we cant.
You rightly mention population. The common thread in all the
collapse issues is population, and no one wants to tackle that
hot topic in our god fearing countries. (Texas abortion laws
anyone?)
We are in overshoot. Current population levels are not living
sustainably. If its not sustainable, it cant last by
definition... Sounds obvious hey?
Apparently not.
That will be resolved one way or another shortly, then we wont
need so much energy.
JOW
#Post#: 928--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: John of Wallan Date: September 12, 2021, 5:28 pm
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[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=49.msg918#msg918
date=1631412006]
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=49.msg909#msg909
date=1631394387]
We are in overshoot. Current population levels are not living
sustainably. If its not sustainable, it cant last by
definition... Sounds obvious hey?
Apparently not.
JOW
[/quote]
Obvious enough that the Great Dieoff was called for by the end
of the 1980's.
See, there has been this consistent problem of when we even
NOTICE overshoot, let alone it demonstrates a nice empirical
metric like overall declining population.
I've enjoyed the 31 years since the Great Dieoff was claimed,
and wasn't, the question now being how many more generations
will be able to say the same? There is quite a good chance that
the nice empirical metric I've mentioned won't even be visible
in our lifetimes.
[/quote]
The green revolution bought the world another 40 years of
unsustainable population growth. Now we are seeing the collapse
of eco-systems and loss of topsoil from mining the soil of all
nutrients and destroying micro biology by over use of chemical
fertilisers in order to feed the growing number of mouths.

JOW
#Post#: 932--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: John of Wallan Date: September 13, 2021, 4:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=49.msg930#msg930
date=1631495095]
So...unless yet another new technology comes along to save the
day like the last time, looks like we will face disaster. Again.
Maybe.
[/quote]
Yes, yes, yes!
Wishful thinking and magic will save us.
Again.... Again.
I know, lets pray. Miracles are exactly what we need.
JOW
#Post#: 933--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: John of Wallan Date: September 13, 2021, 4:59 am
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I would be nice to actually fix a problem for once rather that
just kick the can down the road.
Every new technology has unknown side effects.
Every action has unknown consequences.
Coal and oil led to population explosions.
Population explosion leads to overshoot.
Instead of stopping the overshoot we look to technology to
temporarily allow overshoot, or even increases it..
When this technology runs its course we scramble for another
miracle.
Now we are destroying the ecosystem using the same fossil fuels,
which is reducing the population it can sustainably carry.
We are scrambling to find alternatives, and even dream about
putting people on other planets raher than fix the issues here.
I dont believe technology will always save us.
I may well be a modern Luddite. Lets see.
JOW

#Post#: 934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: RE Date: September 13, 2021, 6:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=49.msg933#msg933
date=1631527187]
I dont believe technology will always save us.
I may well be a modern Luddite. Lets see.
[/quote]
Don't forget antibiotics simply creating more drug resistant
microbes! Technology has never saved us, simply caused us to
dig a deeper hole. It also suffers from the law of diminishing
returns. The more complex you get, the less benefit and more
blowback. Besides a dieoff, this time there is no solution that
can work. If there was, by now it would have been tried.
Instead we just wait for the next storm to inundate NOLA or
Houston...again.
Some dimwitted technofile billionaire proposed building a new
$400B "Green City" in the desert. How much would it cost to
rebuild Houston inland? A whole lot more than $400B. Then you
still have NOLA and NYC to relocate, along with all the rest of
the coastal Big Shitties.
If you stopped using FFs tomorrow, the hurricanes will keep
coming, then how do you pump out the water? How do you build
new cities to house the people without all the heavy equipment?
It's just not gonna happen.
We are watching a slow motion train wreck. In civilization
terms rather than the human lifespan, it is actually quite rapid
though. the train has gone off the rails already. It's not
"going to crash". It IS crashing.
RE
#Post#: 941--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: John of Wallan Date: September 13, 2021, 5:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=49.msg934#msg934 date=1631533966]
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=49.msg933#msg933
date=1631527187]
I dont believe technology will always save us.
I may well be a modern Luddite. Lets see.
[/quote]
Don't forget antibiotics simply creating more drug resistant
microbes! Technology has never saved us, simply caused us to
dig a deeper hole. It also suffers from the law of diminishing
returns. The more complex you get, the less benefit and more
blowback. Besides a dieoff, this time there is no solution that
can work. If there was, by now it would have been tried.
Instead we just wait for the next storm to inundate NOLA or
Houston...again.
Some dimwitted technofile billionaire proposed building a new
$400B "Green City" in the desert. How much would it cost to
rebuild Houston inland? A whole lot more than $400B. Then you
still have NOLA and NYC to relocate, along with all the rest of
the coastal Big Shitties.
If you stopped using FFs tomorrow, the hurricanes will keep
coming, then how do you pump out the water? How do you build
new cities to house the people without all the heavy equipment?
It's just not gonna happen.
We are watching a slow motion train wreck. In civilization
terms rather than the human lifespan, it is actually quite rapid
though. the train has gone off the rails already. It's not
"going to crash". It IS crashing.
RE
[/quote]
Hmm. A predicament...
Keep using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
Stop using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
JOW
#Post#: 942--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: RE Date: September 13, 2021, 5:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=49.msg941#msg941
date=1631571010]
Hmm. A predicament...
Keep using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
Stop using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
[/quote]
This type of predicament is called a "Morton's Fork".
Meaning of Morton's Fork in English - Lexico
HTML https://www.lexico.com
� definition � morton's_fork
1.1A dilemma, especially one in which both choices are equally
undesirable.
F*ucked if you do, F*cked if you don't.
What some hopelessly dense people cannot grasp is that some
problems are insoluble. You cannot reach such people. "They
are a breed apart and make no sense."
RE
#Post#: 952--------------------------------------------------
Re: Energy Errata
By: K-Dog Date: September 15, 2021, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RE link=topic=49.msg942#msg942 date=1631572285]
[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=49.msg941#msg941
date=1631571010]
Hmm. A predicament...
Keep using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
Stop using fossil fuels; we are screwed.
[/quote]
This type of predicament is called a "Morton's Fork".
Meaning of Morton's Fork in English - Lexico
HTML https://www.lexico.com
� definition � morton's_fork
1.1A dilemma, especially one in which both choices are equally
undesirable.
F*ucked if you do, F*cked if you don't.
What some hopelessly dense people cannot grasp is that some
problems are insoluble. You cannot reach such people. "They
are a breed apart and make no sense."
RE
[/quote]
The truly dense see only things as black and white.
Having DNA to see nuance and shades of gray we may have, but if
it is not developed a tattooed blue hair gamer is no more
intellectually advanced that a native from a rain forest who
passes their days hunting monkeys.
They think every tree has a spirit and the popular thing is to
call such nonsense wise. And I have just made myself very
unpopular.
Some shit tastes better than other shit. And if you have to eat
shit you should be able to use a spoon if it is your preference
IMHO.
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