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#Post#: 461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Eddie Date: June 6, 2021, 12:54 pm
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[quote author=Cam link=topic=34.msg446#msg446 date=1622761142]
It's interesting you mention vegans. The ones I know avoid it
because of the suffering involved in factory farming, which I
completely understand. Where I am now on the homestead the lady
here sells eggs and meat to former vegans - they have visited
here before and seen just how spoiled the animals are and have
actually changed their minds. The animals may die, but they lead
a life of peace. As I write this the goats are all laying in the
shade under a big maple tree, and they just finished a feast in
marsh grass that's as tall as they are. They've got it good!
I'm taking a PDC by Geoff Lawton on DVD right now, and I'm
flipping through the permaculture design book as I work my
through the course. I found a quote about gardening that I
really like. I can't find it right now, but it's something along
the lines of "gardeners do not fear death because they see it
all the time. Seeds sprout, plants grow, and plants die, and the
cycle begins again". Just seeing the cyclical nature of life and
death does wonders I think. Death is not THE END where
everything stops. It's a new beginning!
[/quote]
I’m no fan of factory farming. I can see not supporting it with
one’s own money in an effort to help change that, but quite
honestly I don’t see what that has to do with being vegan. Do
you know what a typical soybean farm looks like? It’s a huge
acreage monocrop farm......highly mechanized and it has all
kinds of FF inputs. It’s factory farming.
You can raise animals or vegetables either way.
Someone I know who raises meat sustainably told me something
that stuck with me. They said, “Our animals only have one bad
day in their lives, the day they get slaughtered. The rest of
their lives they get treated very well.”
This is how I tried to do it with my pig farming.
I stand by my observation that it is the lack of connection to
nature with its natural cycle of birth and death, and its sudden
catastrophic events.....that makes city kids delusional enough
to decide to not eat meat for political reasons. This old movie
clip from Everything is Illuminated reminds me of the
intellectual hubris it takes to make dietary decisions based on
one’s ideology.
HTML https://youtu.be/um2p4GlEbKg
Very certainly, people who are connected to the soil and raise
their own food, develop a much more realistic view of death and
understand that its just part of the cycle.
I think Disney, in particular, with its animated animal
movies......that show cute wild animals talking and appearing to
have the same sensibilities as humans.....has been a horrible
influence on the last couple of generations. I call it the
Disneyfication of the modern world. It’s pervasive in the
culture here. ;)
#Post#: 463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Cam Date: June 6, 2021, 5:02 pm
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[quote author=Eddie link=topic=34.msg461#msg461 date=1623002082]
I’m no fan of factory farming. I can see not supporting it with
one’s own money in an effort to help change that, but quite
honestly I don’t see what that has to do with being vegan. Do
you know what a typical soybean farm looks like? It’s a huge
acreage monocrop farm......highly mechanized and it has all
kinds of FF inputs. It’s factory farming.
You can raise animals or vegetables either way.
Someone I know who raises meat sustainably told me something
that stuck with me. They said, “Our animals only have one bad
day in their lives, the day they get slaughtered. The rest of
their lives they get treated very well.”
This is how I tried to do it with my pig farming.
I stand by my observation that it is the lack of connection to
nature with its natural cycle of birth and death, and its sudden
catastrophic events.....that makes city kids delusional enough
to decide to not eat meat for political reasons. This old movie
clip from Everything is Illuminated reminds me of the
intellectual hubris it takes to make dietary decisions based on
one’s ideology.
HTML https://youtu.be/um2p4GlEbKg
Very certainly, people who are connected to the soil and raise
their own food, develop a much more realistic view of death and
understand that its just part of the cycle.
I think Disney, in particular, with its animated animal
movies......that show cute wild animals talking and appearing to
have the same sensibilities as humans.....has been a horrible
influence on the last couple of generations. I call it the
Disneyfication of the modern world. It’s pervasive in the
culture here. ;)
[/quote]
Lol I like that video. Good acting.
Yeah I think protests, either with placard signs or dietary
choices are helpful in some ways, but in others they don't do
much. I think if I had a slogan it would be 'grow a goddamn
garden'. It's a simple action but with many benefits, one being
the direct connection to nature that is very much lacking now.
It gives you a sense of purpose, is a great conversation starter
and thus good for community building, gives you exercise, gives
you healthy fresh food, reduces your reliance on the fossil fuel
system, and if you focus on soil building it can heal a small
patch of the planet too. I really like gardeners and gardening.
The animals are the same around here - luxurious lives except
for when they're eventually shot. But living on a farm or
homestead forces you to see how humans and our livestock fit
into the web of life as NF said. And yes, one finds out that
raccoons are not cuddly just because they are cute. They don't
talk or sing either in my limited experience.
#Post#: 464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Nearings fault Date: June 6, 2021, 6:37 pm
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If they start singing and talking to you you Might have consumed
too much of the special crops...
#Post#: 465--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Phil Potts Date: June 6, 2021, 8:20 pm
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Its anthropomorphism, attributing human characteristics. Fine
when it makes for humane treatment such as hunters thanking an
animal for feeding us, not so much when pets inherit whole
estates. Who wouldn't enjoy Clint Eastwood as Jonathan
Livingston Seagull?
HTML https://youtu.be/waNhD1Z23M8
#Post#: 466--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Cam Date: June 7, 2021, 8:41 am
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[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=34.msg464#msg464
date=1623022657]
If they start singing and talking to you you Might have consumed
too much of the special crops...
[/quote]
Now wouldn't that be fun. Sing with the birds and dance with the
raccoons. Maybe see several dwarves run out of the forest. Then
eat an apple, then take a powernap surrounded by the friendly
dwarves...
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=34.msg465#msg465
date=1623028846]
Its anthropomorphism, attributing human characteristics. Fine
when it makes for humane treatment such as hunters thanking an
animal for feeding us, not so much when pets inherit whole
estates. Who wouldn't enjoy Clint Eastwood as Jonathan
Livingston Seagull?
HTML https://youtu.be/waNhD1Z23M8
[/quote]
Now you have me picturing a chihuahua named Mr.Chi ordering its
servants around its 27 acres of estate. Barking orders and
chewing out anyone who disobeys. The servants work like dogs but
it is never up to Mr. Chi's expectations.
#Post#: 469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Death on the farm
By: Eddie Date: June 9, 2021, 12:43 pm
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[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=34.msg464#msg464
date=1623022657]
If they start singing and talking to you you Might have consumed
too much of the special crops...
[/quote]
it’s been a few years but the missus and I went to the local
cinema and watched a very good documentary film once called
March of the Penguins....you might have seen it. It was a great
movie with some very fine cinematography and camera work, and it
really opened a window to the real habitat and behavior of these
unique birds in the Antarctic.
Anyway there was a bit that showed a pair of penguins taking
care of their lone egg. They hold the egg on the tops of their
feet to keep it from freezing. Unfortunately the male penguin
slipped at some point after the movie had been following the
scene for weeks, and the egg rolled off his feet and split wide
open, all of which was dutifully captured by the filmmaker. The
audience was affected, since none of us had been expecting that
kind of outcome.
Nearby in the dark , there was young mother of two kids, a girl
of maybe five, and little boy who was probably just under three.
The lad could be heard plaintively asking his mother in a
clearly audible voice. “Mommy, what happened to the baby
penguin?”
The film moved on, but the kid was fixated on the death of the
fetus, which had been captured in all of its poignant ugliness,
a freezing, partially matured baby bird covered in albumin,
freezing on the ice-cold rocks. Over and over, he made the same
query, and it was obvious from the nervous laughter in the
room, that lots of people were listening. We felt bad for the
lady......after hanging in for maybe 20 minutes, listening to
the kid wail “What happened to the baby penguin?" over and over,
she finally got up and dragged her progeny out of the theater.
I did overcome my urge to blurt out something like “The ****
baby penguin is DEAD, kid. Get over it!"
But I still wonder how she explained that one to her son.
City kids are protected from death and a great many other things
that kids from the country have to learn to understand early on.
Some of them, a sizable percentage I think, never really get it
at all. They go through life with a delusional view about how
things are.
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