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#Post#: 661--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carbonated coolaid
By: Phil Potts Date: July 29, 2021, 8:41 pm
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Promises of carbon capture are not hopium, but a face saving
admission of defeat on all the net zero by 2050 promises. Begin
with the maxim 'no free lunch' in energy changing form. Nobody
mentions the energy required to pull out CO2 in the range of
400ppm from air through filtration and chemical reactions, let
alone the energy required to first build and maintain the plants
( not the vegetatbe plants that really do capture carbon through
photosynthesis), or dispose of it afterwards. Happy talk about
using the sequestered carbon turbocharging greenhouses and the
rest pumped underground, never mentions that being pumped
underground for fracking. Simply not clearing the land to be
used in the first place would do more to capture carbon. The
promise that this will all happen in future is a can kicking PR
stunt, because there is no way we can ween our consumption off
of fossil fuel in anything like its current status and size.
#Post#: 662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carbinated coolaid
By: Phil Potts Date: July 29, 2021, 10:05 pm
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Ask if if leo says the direct atmosphere carbon capture will be
built with EV bulldozers and trucks and the fans and pumps run
with wind and solar power.
HTML https://youtu.be/sFDmbYP-JvA
HTML https://youtu.be/QWolc45cr8k
#Post#: 663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: K-Dog Date: July 30, 2021, 12:35 am
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Exactly right
#Post#: 669--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carbonated coolaid
By: Phil Potts Date: July 30, 2021, 7:09 pm
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[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=14.msg668#msg668
date=1627687553]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=14.msg661#msg661
date=1627609297]
Happy talk about using the sequestered carbon turbocharging
greenhouses and the rest pumped underground, never mentions that
being pumped underground for fracking.
[/quote]
I hadn't heard anyone suggesting that you sequester CO2 by using
it for fracking. Do you have a reference as to who is suggesting
this idea?
[/quote]
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_oil_recovery
#Post#: 671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Carbonated coolaid
By: Phil Potts Date: July 31, 2021, 1:05 am
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[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=14.msg670#msg670
date=1627704056]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=14.msg669#msg669
date=1627690169]
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=14.msg668#msg668
date=1627687553]
[quote author=Phil Potts link=topic=14.msg661#msg661
date=1627609297]
Happy talk about using the sequestered carbon turbocharging
greenhouses and the rest pumped underground, never mentions that
being pumped underground for fracking.
[/quote]
I hadn't heard anyone suggesting that you sequester CO2 by using
it for fracking. Do you have a reference as to who is suggesting
this idea?
[/quote]
HTML https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_oil_recovery
[/quote]
Thanks. So it isn't fracking, just enhanced recovery. Which
doesn't even store CO2, other than at a residual level. They
recycle it when it comes out with the oil, and pump it back in
again. The assumption appears to be that when the field is
abandoned, you leave all the CO2 behind. Unfortunate that unless
you are required to leave it behind, there is no reason to.
Barely a carbon sequestration scheme at all.
[/quote]
I never assumed it was safely sequestered, that is only what we
are told the plan is. I guess the question is what they are
pumping it back in to , if they are not leaving it behind.
Something like 99% was not accounted for. I imagine if it was
sent down during the day at a particular temp and at night the
air temp above ground got colder, the C02 would just rise out if
it's free to escape.
#Post#: 674--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Phil Potts Date: August 1, 2021, 7:47 pm
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HTML https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/fire-breaks-out-during-testing-of-victorian-big-battery-near-geelong-20210730-p58eh4.html
#Post#: 709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: RE Date: August 7, 2021, 12:02 pm
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HTML https://www.mic.com/p/the-gulf-stream-is-at-risk-of-collapse-if-it-does-the-global-results-would-be-catastrophic-82755062
Get back to me when it actually does collapse. It has been "at
risk" for years.
RE
#Post#: 711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Nearings fault Date: August 7, 2021, 3:48 pm
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[quote author=John of Wallan link=topic=14.msg653#msg653
date=1626991450]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg651#msg651
date=1626989261]
Here is a decent article about EV battery repurposing and
recycling.
HTML https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/what-happens-to-old-batteries/
[/quote]
What about now obsolete Ni-Cad wet cell batteries?
In a previous life I used to recycle these. 90% of the time
there was nothing wrong with them despite being 50+ yeras old.
Were usually replaced as part of a maintenance regime. We even
sold a heap of them second hand to farmers for electric fences
and electric gates. I also heard of old rubber case batteries
being replaced after near 100 years of service in a Sydney phone
exchange due to rubber cases degrading and leaking KOh solution,
but batteries worked fine otherwise.
I am not a battery expert and know very little about them. I was
told they are low energy density but have an incredible service
life. They are also very low tech. There was nothing complex
when we recycled them. Please correct me if I am wrong on the
long life assumption.,
I always thought that simplicity and longevity would be number
one and two consideration for long term off grid. particularly
in difficult times. It really does not matter if it takes up a
bit more space at the homestead I would have thought..
JOW
[/quote]
Oddly enough I'm rereading Kim Stanley Robinson's fifty degrees
bellow from about fifteen years ago. It's a trilogy that
discusses climate change and a stall of the gulf stream... Most
of it holds up very well...
#Post#: 714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: John of Wallan Date: August 7, 2021, 6:44 pm
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The methane bomb had blown.
JOW
Link
HTML http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/
Text:
Siberian Permafrost Turns Carbon-12 Tap On: Radiocarbon
Diminishing in Air
by Veli Albert Kallio
[ image by Peter Carter of Climate Emergency Institute ]
We at Sea Research Society's Environmental Affairs Department
are very concerned of the melting permafrost terrain and methane
clathrate deposits of the Arctic Ocean's sea bed (which are
seeding Siberia's air once again with carbon-12). This is
because Arctic Ocean's methane clathrates, methane (CH4) &
carbon dioxide (CO₂) deposits are thought to be the
world's largest reservoir of carbon. When it comes to methane,
much of that in the Arctic is a side-product of geochemical
processes since the birth of our planet some 4 billion years ago
and so it contains ZERO radiocarbon (14C). To these are added
the various undersea and land-based deposits of ancient fossil
carbon which too have zero or just minute content of carbon-14.
We see already the Arctic at a tipping point, reaching a cliff
edge to zero carbon-14 presence in tundra's plants emerging over
recent years.
Above should set off alarm bells to archaeologists so much so
that if carbon-14 can now disappear from the observed portfolio
of the carbon isotopes in the plants and animals by
radiocarbon-dilution effect from both the ancient geo-carbon and
also the fossil carbon sources on land and sea bed. One of the
key pillars to calibrate not only radiocarbon dating, but other
methods as well that have been indirectly calibrated with the
help of carbon-14 as their control measurements, is being
attacked by the furious Mother Nature. We stand now on an
increasingly elastic and shifting sands on this question. And
why just now?
The answer to this is straightforward: the man-made global
warming. So, now recall that the Arctic Ocean's sea level fell
between some 120-130 metres from its present-day water table
during the Ice Ages as water accumulated within the glaciers on
the land - and that depressurisation (in addition to warming) is
actually the primary route to destroy methane clathrates as it
disintegrates at lower water pressures. The broad rule is
therefore that the less water in ocean, the more methane
clathrate (methane ice) begins to disintegrate.
Methane clathrates (methane ice deposits) as the world's biggest
carbon reservoir would have inevitably oozed out copious amounts
of carbon-12 into air during the lowering of the Ice Age era
ocean water table. At the same time, the ice-filled and cold
world oceans were mopping away gases from the air far more
intensively than they do today leaving little atmospheric
carbon-14 behind in this process. The atmospheric carbon is very
rich in radiocarbon if compared to carbon in water courses and
oceans - let alone in the ancient soils. This is because
carbon-14 forms in atmosphere from nitrogen due to cosmic
radiation. As cold liquids hold more gases than warmer liquids,
it is not much of hocus pocus for radiocarbon to disappear from
the air into these ice-filled and cold oceans teeming with much
more marine life than today.
Today there are over 27,000 recorded methane craters discovered
on the Arctic Ocean's sea bed and many have diameter of 1 km or
wider. The largest methane crater found so far is 750 km² in its
area and has the lost from its deposit thickness over 300 metres
(and all of that is pure carbon-12 that was originally within
methane ice, of course).
Ethnoclimatology Motion UNGA 101292 which the United Nations
Secretary-General Javier Pérez de Cuéllar authorised for tabling
on the floor of the UN General Assembly - as the closing plea of
the opening proceedings of the first UN Year of Indigenous
Peoples - stipulated a faster case history for the Ice Ages
period where global warming was initially driven by methane
releases from the seabed while carbon dioxide emerged later as
the respondent to the warming by high altitude methane. This
then tipped the trajectory of the world's constantly cooling
climate at the Last Glacial Maximum towards global warming
(methane molecule-to-molecule to carbon dioxide molecule is 256
times more powerful in trapping sun's heat). This system tipping
point reversed the cooling of the Ice Ages from the earlier
snowball-earth runaway global cooling trajectory (which resulted
from the continuously advancing snow lines of the Ice Ages that
were heading towards the Equator).
The last time methane came to "save the earth" from runaway
freezing (snowball earth), but at our current situation we have
triggered its instability by the unforeseen levels of carbon
dioxide now at 420 ppm that forms a very-difficult-to-get-rid-of
background climatic forcing. This issue of carbon-12 from the
frozen polar regions, called cryosphere, is not just for the
archaeological community and about the timing of our historic
events in the distant past to be understood more accurately, but
it is a real existential threat today for our society. This time
methane is not coming to us from the ground as our saviour like
it was during the Ice Ages, but it is now our foremost enemy
after our man-made releases of carbon dioxide.
Carbon dioxide released today lingers in air for 1000 years or
even more, although bouncing back-and-forth with surface layers
in the oceans, but it is only very gradually disappearing from
the air by chemical weathering by the olivine group rocks or
soils containing olivine group minerals. Also, very deeply
penetrated plant roots lock carbon gradually away as well as the
sea plankton if it falls onto the deep ocean bed. It is a grave
misconception to think that the plant life is a great natural
filter than can sort our mess out. The plants are rather geared
to take carbon in as carbon dioxide to only form their leaves,
let the autumn come and those same leaves are due to fall onto
the ground and turn back into carbon dioxide. Flowers and trees
are not any sort of Santa Claus to do that job for us.
As carbon's locking away is not at all immediate as shown above
but as it can take thousand years or more to do so, so the same
principle applied to the huge releases of Palaeolithic methane
(which as lighter-than-air gas resides mainly in the upper
troposphere, stratosphere, and mesosphere). As most of methane
has been seen in recent years accumulating at fastest rate at
the highest altitudes in the atmosphere - far above the surface
- it cannot be very well represented in the ice cores. It simply
is neither trapped in the snow crystals very much - and
consequently - nor seen in the ice cores (that are basically
just taken out of the pack of compacted fallen snow) - as most
of methane resides well above the cloud level.
This explains why the global warming - which ended the Ice Ages
- appears in the ice cores already centuries to thousands of
years before the rising concentrations of carbon dioxide is seen
in air trapped in the bubbles of the ice cores. Methane oxidizes
best to carbon dioxide in warm and moist air, but during the
xeric climate conditions of the ice ages and also amplified by
the xeric heights in dry stratosphere, methane oxidised back
then far slower than it does today. Thus, the huge heating
effect of methane melted the ice sheets of the Ice Ages back
into the world ocean and as soon as the sea levels rose, methane
clathrates got re-pressurised - while the slip-sliding and
collapsing ice sheets and ice shelves produced ice bergs and
more sea ice to cool both the oceans and the climate. The supply
of new methane from ocean beds soon was cut off and in due
course also the permafrost releases also began to diminish as
climate began to cool due to growing shortage of methane in air.
By Holocene Thermal Maximum or Optimum any further global
warming had stopped as by then there was little high altitude
methane left in upper troposphere, stratosphere, and mesosphere.
As a consequence of this new tipping point, the atmospheric
temperature rise ceased and settled for the Holocene equilibrium
and then dropped slightly for the next few thousands of years.
The above explains, for example, the radiocarbon-outliers of the
earliest Egyptian carbon samples being typically more carbon-14
aged than their actual age. Quite ridiculously, the recent
discovery of wood material in relation to the Great Pyramid of
Giza, which was built by Pharaoh Khufu was radiocarbon-dated to
34th century BCE. This is more than eight (8) full centuries
before the historically-known date when the Great Pyramid of
Giza was built.
In fact, the timing of 34 centuries before Common Era is a date
that occurred long before even the Egyptian state even existed!
Yet, these readings were apparently checked very carefully and
cross-checked again. The explanation flirted - which we at SRS
are strenuously disputing - is that the Egyptians would have
stored the wood for over eight centuries before the put that
wood in use to build the Khufu pyramid. This is outrageous
stupidity as it is very clear that huge bulk quantities of wood
would have been required and which could never have been stored
for such a long time before its final use. There simpy weren't
even manpower and storage facilities in the 34th century BCE
Egypt. Even if the wood would have been first used in the
construction of the Sakkara Pyramid, the first pyramid, and then
recycled to the Great Pyramid of Giza for re-use, it still would
not be sufficiently aged enough to explain the carbon-14
readings obtained as 34th century BCE.
The best (or - better to say - only) explanation to the above is
the effect of lingering carbon dioxide in the air remaining
centuries to over thousands of years after the Palaeolithic
releases of geological and fossil carbon from the Arctic
permafrost soils and seabed.
Our whole economy (along history-keeping too) stands and falls
if the Arctic methane and carbon dioxide emissions of carbon-12
continue this way unabated as today. The world needs cooling
urgently and far less CO₂ perhaps 350 ppm or less. Of
course, there is also the separate environmental issue of
Siberia's forest fires this year and last (2020 and 2021) with a
forest of the size of France said to have been burnt.
Above are serious issues where historic dating of carbon is a
minor issue but where the dangers from global warming to human
society must remain our supreme concern.
A particularly suspicious case to us is the Japanese
Palaeolithic as the island sits east of the vast Eurasian
landmass and is exposed to winds from north-west that come via
Siberia. In particular the Pandora's Box of permafrost carbon-12
is suspect culprit in these comments:
"Ground stone and polished tools: The Japanese Palaeolithic is
unique in that it incorporates one of the earliest known sets of
ground stone and polished stone tools in the world .. The tools,
which have been dated to around 30,000 BC, are a technology
associated in the rest of the world with the beginning of the
Neolithic around 10,000 BC. It is not known why such tools were
created so early in Japan. Because of this originality, the
Japanese Palaeolithic period in Japan does not exactly match the
traditional definition of Palaeolithic based on stone technology
(chipped stone tools). Japanese Palaeolithic tool implements
thus display Mesolithic and Neolithic traits as early as 30,000
BC." (Wikipedia, Japanese Palaeolithic)
The effect of carbon-12 seeding in air - as the westerly winds
roll gradually over the terrain of Siberia and Arctic to pick up
old carbon on its way to east - is seen to be the greatest in
the north-east corner of Siberia (i.e. northern Yakutia) where
the plants currently appear sucking in major permafrost inputs
of ancient carbon. This would suggest that the northern China
would be also quite prone to similar permafrost-based carbon-12
seeding. Then, when one accounts for the blocking effects of the
Karakoram and the Himalayan mountain ranges in south and the
very limited ability for the air to rise in the thin-air area
over the vast Tibetan high plateau, the air is mostly guided
towards South-East China that also ought see fairly elevated
levels of carbon-12. This creates in my mind a question mark
over the Chinese archaeological claim that they created the
world's first clay pottery some 10,000-15,000 years before
others - the people of the Middle East - let alone, the
'laggards' of Europe.
So, is this then another radiocarbon illusion created by the
Mother Earth?
"A 2012 publication in the Science journal, announced that the
earliest pottery yet known anywhere in the world was found at
Xianren Cave site dated by radiocarbon to between 20,000 and
19,000 years before present, at the end of the Last Glacial
Period. The carbon 14 dating was established by carefully dating
surrounding sediments. Many of the pottery fragments had scorch
marks, suggesting that the pottery was used for cooking. These
early pottery containers were made well before the invention of
agriculture (dated to 10,000 to 8,000 BC), by mobile foragers
who hunted and gathered their food during the Late Glacial
Maximum." (Wikipedia, Xianren Cave)
There are other issues than a lack of such old pottery findings
in addition to the suggested radiocarbon-dilution effect that
archeologists must consider. One reason for not finding pottery,
or encountering less of it, would be the mobility and the lack
of accumulation of domestic waste in heaps, "tells", as in the
Middle East because the people were likely highly nomadic. It
might be more practical to use wooden vessels, leather skins and
avoid pots by other means like roasting meat over the open fire
rather than carrying the relatively bulky clay pots (at least
for anything other than for use as a cooking vessel for
vegetables, seeds, roots, or herbs). Animals and fish could be
roosted on rocks or over the fire as and so the need might be
just for an occasional cooking pot. When to the potential
mobility is added temporary camping in places away from the
rivers and the streams, it is easy to miss out vast majority of
pottery left behind on the huge grassland steppes of Central
Asia and China.
On the other hand, the idea of clay pots could have spread far
faster as useful and easy-to-copy practice to bake clay, and the
large c-14 dates might be almost entirely carbon artefacts.
At British Museum's conference Anthropology, Weather, and
Climate Change we presented a poster Looking at the Forward
Running Clocks' - Carbon Cycles and Time from Pleistocene to
Present outlining some prime candidates that we suspected as
fallen for the Arctic geo-carbon and fossil carbon seeding
effects (a link attached at the end).
The carbon "seeding effects" are not only localised and regional
radiocarbon anomalies. There are important anomalies also
outside the time scales of these seasonal and regional weather
patterns - on a global climate scale. As an indicator of this,
there is the already stated anomalous global warming that is
seen occurring centuries-to-millennia before the rise of carbon
dioxide in air trapped within the ice cores before it is
enriched with carbon dioxide. This anomaly (an exceedingly toted
argument by the climate change denialists) can be associated
with the above said methane leaks from methane clathrates
(geo-carbon and fossil carbon) from ocean bed, and methane from
permafrost (fossil carbon) at very high altitudes - where the
were warming the air well before carbon dioxide arrived to the
scene. This carbon sourcing would have seeded also the entire
overall global air mass to at least some extent with this extra
carbon-12 - though somewhat less than the northern anomalies to
create also a somewhat skewed background comparisons level (less
"aged" than the higher permafrost emissions seen nearer their
Arctic sources) but also radiocarbon-diluted.
In all this, remember, it only takes a doubling of carbon-12 in
the air to add one half-life (5,730 years) to the measured
radiocarbon age. If you reduce it to a quarter, that is already
in the range of over 10,000 years - and it is in these ranges or
even more than that - these gigantic Arctic carbon stores
painted our ancient biological bodies with extra carbon-12.
We have devised some unique experiments that can fully
differentiate any carbon from the above Arctic sources from the
naturally occurring portfolio of the carbon isotopes.
I just got the latest methane blobs reported 02:30 am today.
These images are far from good although they do not create such
a television theatre or environmental porn like the forest
fires, floods and hurricanes do. Yesterday's readings are "our
canary in a coal mine" to show how badly methane and carbon
dioxide are now streaming out from the Arctic permafrost soils
and seabeds. Our past trust has been to be over-relying on plain
or slightly tinkered readings how to interpret radiocarbon. This
will be gone as this is how carbon-12 now enters our biological
materials from Northern Asia with its culprit caught red handed.
The revised radiocarbon-oriented vocabulary on the Arctic
carbon-12 emissions are: Ice Ages' Last Glacial Maximum (=
Sea-Level Drop Maximum) until Holocene Thermal Maximum/Optimum
(= Permafrost Melting Maximum). The past ancient methane "blobs"
were in a vastly larger scales than those seen here today. As I
said above, carbon dioxide concentrations could not get over 180
ppm during the Ice Ages due to the cold and iceberg and sea ice
filled oceans dissolving gases from atmosphere far faster than
today whilst the carbon-12 taps of lowered seabeds and then
melting permafrost remained highly venting. This suppressed
atmospheric carbon-14 manifestation for a very long time.
Situation on graphics on Tuesday, 3 August 2021; received
Wednesday, 4th August 2021 at 02:30 GMT.
Our research of ethnoclimatological records show consistent
records in Sumer, India, East Asia, and Mesoamerica that the
ethnic time-keeping is consistently pointing towards faster
causative, duration and termination history for the Ice Ages and
as per UNGA 101292. This is also at the core of my 2023 moon
expedition bid to raise alarm on above dangers from the Moon to
get the First Nations of Americas ethnohistorical climate
recollections taken more seriously and to establish
Ethnoclimatology as a new branch of science akin to Ethnobotany.
By Veli Albert Kallio, FRGS | Vice-President, Sea Research
Society | Ethnoclimatologist
• United Nations General Assembly Motion 101292 for UNFCCC's
Talanoa Dialogue
HTML https://www.academia.edu/36396474/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Motion_101292_for_UNFCCCs_Talanoa_Dialogue
• 'Looking At The Forward Running Clocks' - Carbon Cycles and
Time From Pleistocene to Present
HTML https://www.academia.edu/29473262/Looking_At_The_Forward_Running_Clocks_Carbon_Cycles_and_Time_From_Pleistocene_to_Present
Former Director of the Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew, London,
Professor Sir Ghillean Prance, FRS, is fully behind me on my
moon flight bid to raise alarm bells on above problem. I hope a
positive outcome by the end of this month to be included in the
moon flight crew.
• Moon Flight Crew Interview of Veli Albert Kallio (Step 3) for
SpaceX 2023 Lunar Mission
HTML https://www.academia.edu/50061072/Moon_Flight_Crew_Interview_of_Veli_Albert_Kallio_Step_3_for_SpaceX_2023_Lunar_Mission
#Post#: 740--------------------------------------------------
It's TOASTY in Seattle & NYC
By: RE Date: August 12, 2021, 6:45 pm
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HTML https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/weather/heat-forecast-seattle-portland-new-york-thursday/index.html
Also Italy, Greece and Eurotrashland in general.
Fortunately, Alaska still remains tolerable without the A/C. :)
Notice how the excessive heat is concentrated in the Urban
locations. All that asphalt, of course.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZdDrDbth0g
RE
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