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#Post#: 161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Phil Potts Date: April 28, 2021, 10:09 pm
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I beg your pardon, I never promised you a rose garden (outside
of temperate zones). Overdue ice free arctic is a reason to give
pause and ask why it is happening slower than predicted, or
might not happen at all. We never seem to question how mercurial
the earth is. If it takes exponential energy to heat and boil
water, meaning a lot more energy to get it to boil at 100c from
90c than to get to 90c from 80c, then overcoming heat loss from
clear night skies may also not be linear. Deforestation and land
clearing means less cloud more of the time over land. Does that
mean more night time cold as well as more daytime heat, with a
lesser net effect than only averaging the max temps to make
predictions? They also need to factor in astronomical cycles on
the Earth's orbit and axis for what impact they have in the next
decades.
#Post#: 163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Digwe Must Date: April 29, 2021, 12:34 am
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Greetings Gentlemen
Here, we deal directly with the effects of climate change every
day. The songbirds are gone. Two of the tree species native to
this area are in deep trouble. We face more and more
catastrophic wildfires all the time.
There are factors at work that are only now being given the
weight they deserve in climate science. The Princeton paper of
a few years ago that noted the IPCC reports did not account for
the albedo from increasing cloud cover due to evaporation at
certain latitudes is one example. The Beufort Gyre is overdue
to spill out into the Atlantic which will further slow the
circulating currents that bring livable weather to northern
Europe. The magnetic poles are moving at an increased rate and
the magnetic field of the planet is weakening in response to
solar changes. Increasing volcanic activity is throwing crap
(technical term) into the stratosphere at an accelerating rate.
These forces which are acting in opposition to anthropogenic
climate change aren't going to calm things down. We can count
on ever more violent extremes being with us from now on.
Even if human were not causing a warming planet, we are
certainly killing the oceans and poisoning the fresh water and
the air we all breathe.
I agree that we must consume less. And we will, like it or not.
Dramatically less. Regarding the planting of trees- that
depends. In many places trees must be planted to replace
forests that have been denuded. The benefits of reforestation
in those areas are difficult to overstate. However, many
forests in the North American west are actually suffering from
too many stems and too much brush. Interruption of the fire
cycle and other poor management techniques have left a fire
prone, genetically inferior mess. The world doesn't just need
more trees. It needs healthy forests and living soil.
Meanwhile, the cherry blossoms are out two weeks early here. The
wild turkeys are setting eggs a bit early and the maple sap ran
weeks ahead of normal.
I had to put down Hercules the ox last week. He was my partner
working in the woods for years. I would include a picture of him
if I could figure out how. He was a Brown Swiss steer that
taped at 2,700lbs. - a very impressive, massively strong animal
that didn't have a mean bone in his body. I bring it up because
part of what will necessarily transpire over the coming years is
a return to biological solutions for our challenges wherever
appropriate as opposed to mechanical or electronic responses.
The 2019 plum wine is excellent. I wish I could pour y'all a
glass.
#Post#: 164--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Nearings fault Date: April 29, 2021, 9:23 am
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The global climate battles baffle me. The west pretends its
lifestyle must not change while ignoring that future emissions
growth is going to come from other parts of the world. We
rightly have guilt about our past so won't point the finger
where it equally belongs. The developing world rightly want a
share of the advantages of energy usage while ignoring that
unlimited growth is what got us into this problem in the first
place. Cognitive dissonance. I have decided to concentrate on my
immediate universe to do what I can and influence through
example. I know I am fully enmeshed in the existing system
whether it be kids, building, transportation patterns, food and
I've stopped pretending I'm not. My personal climate change
philosophy revolves around building in resilience to as many
aspects of my life as possible. So how does that work out in day
to day life.
Housing: build as energy efficiently as possible spend the money
now before deflation happens to limit your energy usage far into
the future. Choose high durability finishes that require little
maintenance planning for low energy senior years. Choose modular
technologies that can be subbed out if they fail down the road
and dont rely on a single technology. Generate as much energy
yourself as possible understanding that a watt not used is worth
2 or 3 watts generated.
Financial: Live under your means in terms of square footage, car
costs, discretionary spending. Spending money you don't have
feeds the bankers and encourages the worst elements of our
society. Dont take your financial advice from people who make
money off your decisions. If you hate global corporations,
mineral extraction, big ag, predatory banking dont surrender
your savings to them and take responsibility for your choices.
Big returns come with huge consequences to someone or somewhere.
Food: I am an omnivore. I have grown large portions of my own
food in the past but I'm evolving my view of this issue as a
conscious effort to stop deluding myself. I am very good at
building, fixing, and energy issues. I am an absolute failure as
a subsistence farmer. 2 km from me I have an organic farm that
is compost and horse powered... to not take advantage of that is
delusional. I have several grass fed cattle operations around me
and even have some true gems : local small slaughtering
capacity. Not taking advantage of that is again delusional
. I like to garden, like chickens, storing food, growing greens
under light out of season but without a food community I would
starve. We have started doing as much of our food purchases
directly and locally. Organic from california cannot compete
with conventional produce locally.
Transport: I drive a 16 year old ford explorer that I try to
keep maintained and running even if it makes less and less sense
financially.
It uses a lot of fuel but it will move 6 people in a pinch and
easily move my family of 4 with gear. It will also pull anything
I need for work which can be a few hundred pounds to several
thousand. I could invest several tens of thousands of dollars
for a slightly more efficient vehicle but it violates many of my
financial rules so no. I lower its emissions by not driving.
When I work I only work local even if there is a financial
penalty to it. My partner drives a 10 year old Mazda 3 which
sips so little fuel a transition to electric would be pure
hubris and defy all environmental and financial logic. I'm lucky
in that I vacation where I live. I like to hike, camp, canoe
trip, ski. All of those dont involve more that a few hours of
travel. Consequently I have not flown in five years and dont
want to anytime soon. I might take a flight to the Rockies to
ski again someday but as a special experience.
All of this adds up to a better life while shrinking my
footprint dramatically. I feel no need to calculate it since you
just cant please the armchair warriors and I feel no need to do
it anymore. I'm an incrementalist but incrementalism over a
lifetime is revolutionary....
Cheers, NF
#Post#: 167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: RE Date: April 30, 2021, 2:20 am
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[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg164#msg164
date=1619706197]Transport: I drive a 16 year old ford explorer
that I try to keep maintained and running even if it makes less
and less sense financially.
It uses a lot of fuel but it will move 6 people in a pinch and
easily move my family of 4 with gear. It will also pull anything
I need for work which can be a few hundred pounds to several
thousand. I could invest several tens of thousands of dollars
for a slightly more efficient vehicle but it violates many of my
financial rules so no.
[/quote]
You also would have to calculate all the embedded energy
involved with replacing that vehicle. For instance if you
replaced it with an EV, the batteries for it have a huge
embedded energy in their manufacture.
RE
#Post#: 170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Nearings fault Date: April 30, 2021, 5:56 am
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[quote author=RE link=topic=14.msg167#msg167 date=1619767206]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg164#msg164
date=1619706197]Transport: I drive a 16 year old ford explorer
that I try to keep maintained and running even if it makes less
and less sense financially.
It uses a lot of fuel but it will move 6 people in a pinch and
easily move my family of 4 with gear. It will also pull anything
I need for work which can be a few hundred pounds to several
thousand. I could invest several tens of thousands of dollars
for a slightly more efficient vehicle but it violates many of my
financial rules so no.
[/quote]
You also would have to calculate all the embedded energy
involved with replacing that vehicle. For instance if you
replaced it with an EV, the batteries for it have a huge
embedded energy in their manufacture.
RE
[/quote]I totally agree. I doubt I'm going down the EV rabbit
hole anytime soon... Consumer society is very tempting though. I
found myself going over the specs for the Rivian and the Tesla
Cybertruck... There Is no way in hell I would pay those prices
but its eye candy. What does have my energy brain going is the
coming cheap supply of lithium vehicle banks that will be
hitting the off grid world in the next few years. What car
companies consider worn out would still make awesome stand alone
home systems ...
#Post#: 171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Nearings fault Date: April 30, 2021, 8:49 am
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I would be interested in how the brain trust reads this article.
On one hand I see melting ice, species habitat destroyed,
methane release from permafrost melting.
Read deeper and I also see woody shrubs replacing moss and
lichen and a deeper soil able to support much more carbon
sequestering biomass... Do the models reflect a greening arctic
able to absorb carbon? I dont know how to do the fancy pasting
you guys do so it's just a link. Again, just looking for
opinions I'm not staking some sort of position here
HTML https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/thin-ice-labrador-summer-climate-changes-1.6005130
#Post#: 173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Nearings fault Date: April 30, 2021, 5:46 pm
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[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=14.msg172#msg172
date=1619821737]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg170#msg170
date=1619780211]
[quote author=RE link=topic=14.msg167#msg167 date=1619767206]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg164#msg164
date=1619706197]Transport: I drive a 16 year old ford explorer
that I try to keep maintained and running even if it makes less
and less sense financially. I could invest several tens of
thousands of dollars for a slightly more efficient vehicle but
it violates many of my financial rules so no.
[/quote]
You also would have to calculate all the embedded energy
involved with replacing that vehicle. For instance if you
replaced it with an EV, the batteries for it have a huge
embedded energy in their manufacture.
RE
[/quote]I totally agree.
[/quote]
And how would you calculate this embedded energy, and determine
its value in a real world purchase? Does less embedded energy
indicate a less expensive/practical/efficient vehicle, or more?
[/quote]I honestly dont know anymore. I find the numbers are
skewed to match whoever's point is being made. I think a vehicle
that is maintained and replaced piece by piece and driven
sparingly should have a lower carbon footprint regardless of
fuel. Based on my research the current batch of electric
vehicles will last the life of the battery. Maybe there will be
a huge aftermarket that develops to refit the cars but
everything about them is assembled for fit not for
sustainability...
#Post#: 175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: K-Dog Date: May 1, 2021, 2:07 am
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[spoiler][quote author=Nearings fault
link=topic=14.msg173#msg173 date=1619822766]
[quote author=BuddyJ link=topic=14.msg172#msg172
date=1619821737]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg170#msg170
date=1619780211]
[quote author=RE link=topic=14.msg167#msg167 date=1619767206]
[quote author=Nearings fault link=topic=14.msg164#msg164
date=1619706197]Transport: I drive a 16 year old ford explorer
that I try to keep maintained and running even if it makes less
and less sense financially. I could invest several tens of
thousands of dollars for a slightly more efficient vehicle but
it violates many of my financial rules so no.
[/quote]
You also would have to calculate all the embedded energy
involved with replacing that vehicle. For instance if you
replaced it with an EV, the batteries for it have a huge
embedded energy in their manufacture.
RE
[/quote]I totally agree.
[/quote]
And how would you calculate this embedded energy, and determine
its value in a real world purchase? Does less embedded energy
indicate a less expensive/practical/efficient vehicle, or more?
[/quote]I honestly dont know anymore. I find the numbers are
skewed to match whoever's point is being made. I think a vehicle
that is maintained and replaced piece by piece and driven
sparingly should have a lower carbon footprint regardless of
fuel. Based on my research the current batch of electric
vehicles will last the life of the battery. Maybe there will be
a huge aftermarket that develops to refit the cars but
everything about them is assembled for fit not for
sustainability...
[/quote]
[/spoiler]
I am driving this (the gas version, not the Diesel
shown):
HTML https://www.cstatic-images.com/car-pictures/maxWidth503/usb70mbc801a0101.png
You can get them for $3,000 — $15,000. Eddy has (or had) one
too. If you get a good one you have great value for the money.
I don't care what the mileage of it is (it is actually pretty
good. 27 MPG on the freeway). What matters is how much I drive
it. Two trips a week in a fuel efficient car to the same place
farts more CO2 out than one trip to the same place no matter
what else you drive. Plan your driving to minimize miles
driven. Save some money. If people really cared about fuel
efficiency, saying how much fuel a car uses at idle stuck in
traffic or uses up when a 'Karen' uses it to drive through
Starbucks without turning off the engine while as she waits for
cars in front to move would be on the white sticker when it was
sold. Idle consumption is as important as knowing what the
mileage is where I live.
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Y91xN6zb_-XOvRUQ9DringHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1[/img]
You know every car in that line has its engine running and you
are NOT going to get through that line in 5 minutes. Maybe they
could have a car wash pull mechanism? That would keep the
engines off. But I'm kidding. No
[shadow=gray,left]Diner[/shadow] would be in this line. An
average drive through at a fast food place I'll guess uses up
fifty cents worth of fuel at todays prices unless there is no
line. With no line the odds of someone being smart enough to
turn the engine off at the window is increased. The answer is
not to drive an electric. The answer is cook at home and make
sure everyone else does too. Nobody likes the second part of
that statement. I don't.
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.zcjqIv9ExwaikdEmzuR08wHaCJ%26pid%3DApi&f=1[/img]
As things are [shadow=gray,left]Diners[/shadow] would find
another way to get our coffee fix. If I could find a local
boiled tree bark I liked as much that would be great.
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F25%2F23%2Fe3%2F2523e3e40fdbb5d925419cf2942647a3.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
The world will not and cannot conserve itself to salvation. The
general public has been propagandized with this idea because
that is where capitalism wants things to go. It keeps the
existing arrangement going the longest.
* Changing our ways is not in the equation but that is the only
thing that could work.
The equation:
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quizlaw.com%2Fblog%2Fimages%2Fmath-problem.jpg&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
Having 'Woman' in the equation is only humor, but a healthy guy
will drive fifty miles to get laid. 100 miles round trip.
#Post#: 177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: K-Dog Date: May 1, 2021, 2:43 am
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I think I blundered onto something:
[quote]The world will not and cannot conserve itself to
salvation. The general public has been propagandized with this
idea because that is where capitalism wants things to go. It
keeps the existing arrangement going the longest. [/quote]
[img]
HTML https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Ft_original%2Fy7jtwugvbwepab240fxv.gif&f=1&nofb=1[/img]
#Post#: 179--------------------------------------------------
Re: Climate Doom
By: Phil Potts Date: May 1, 2021, 3:06 am
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We have had a growth dependent paradigm because of all currency
being borrowed into existence. With a shift to commoditization
and pricing of every aspect of nature, a new user pays system
makes conservation profitable for bankers and billionaires who
bought the air, water, wildlife, forest and farms. Depopulation
with the great reset is then feasible in theory.
Nobody goes anywhere to get laid when the risk v reward calculus
is Russian roulette and if they do, they don't procreate if it's
like using 3 chambered rounds... (as I type on a wireless
internet cellphone 6 inches from my testicles).
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