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By: Admin Date: January 23, 2017, 11:13 am
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1 = [1-2a] The Great Flood
REFERENCES - YOUNG EARTH CRITICISMS - CATASTROPHISM WEAKEST
POINTS - CATASTROPHISM BEST EVIDENCE - BAUMGARDNER'S GREAT FLOOD
- GREAT FLOOD - GREAT FLOOD - DURING GREAT FLOOD - GRAY'S GREAT
FLOOD - THICK ATMOSPHERE - ROCK STRATA FORMATION - SEDIMENTARY
ROCK ORIGIN - SEDIMENTARY STRATA - BROWN'S GREAT FLOOD
<A>__YOUNG EARTH CRITICISMS
- Young Earth vs Old Earth. Charles found a webpage that has a
lot of arguments for Old Earth and against Young Earth. It's
here:
HTML http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/agescience2.htm.
- Of course, those of us who consider only the surface of the
Earth to be young, rather than the entire Earth, aren't bothered
by some of the evidence. ...
<A>__BAUMGARDNER'S GREAT FLOOD
- Flood Deposited Strata. The Noah's Flood paper says the
sedimentary rock strata consist of 5 megasequences, where the
strata are conforming, meaning they're parallel to each other
like pages in a book, and there are 6 unconformities between
them, where strata immediately above and below each of them
don't conform, apparently because there was time for some
erosion to occur or the lower strata shifted or something. The
theory is that all of the conforming layers in each megasequence
were deposited about the same time by a 2,500 m high series of
tsunami waves, which calmed down for a few weeks, then happened
again 6 times, about once a month, so each megasequence was
followed by a pause, then another tsunami. Berthault's
experiments prove this is possible, if not probable. The strata
were deposited wet and it took many years to dry out and harden.
The tsunamis may have been caused by gravitational attraction to
a large body that was circling the Earth about once a month on
an elliptical orbit. The best candidates seem to be the Moon, or
Mars, or Venus.
- Either the animals immediately after the Flood survived on
Noah's ark or a space ship or something, or the Flood failed to
cover some of the land. As Mike Fischer says, the strata were
deposited during the Flood, but the mountain ranges didn't form
till a few centuries later, when the Shock Dynamics impact broke
up the supercontinent and caused some flooding too. As Gordon
says, the Grand Canyon eroded soon after the main Flood when the
two large lakes there, Grand Lake and Hopi Lake, drained through
the canyon. When the Shock Dynamics event occurred later, the
strata were folded into mountain ranges by compressive heating
after they were already somewhat hardened.
<A>__ROCK STRATA FORMATION
- 1. How did sedimentary rock strata form? ... The conventional
theory seems to be full of absurdities. The Great Flood theory
seems to be most logical to me, combined with the Shock Dynamics
theory.
- The conventional theory is that strata and fossils take
thousands to millions of years to form. But delicate fossils and
large ones could not form in conventional flood or sedimentation
events. I don't think it's even proven that conventional
sedimentation forms solid strata. There has to be a lot of lime
or other cementing agent available to form rock strata. I don't
know if rock can form under water until the water is drained
away. Most rock strata cover hundreds or thousands of square
miles. There would have to be a lot of very huge lakes that
filled with sediment. The sediment would have had to move over
the entire lake bottom with nearly equal thickness, whereas
normally sediment only accumulates near the mouths of rivers or
creeks. Erosion would have to bring in just sand with some lime
for thousands of years, then bring in just lime for thousands of
years, and then just mud for many more thousands of years,
because each rock type is usually separate in strata several
inches to feet thick. All of the mountains would be eroded down
in a few million years, so where would the older strata come
from? Would something keep building up mountains to get eroded
back down? Is anything besides a Shock Dynamics event capable of
building up mountains?
- Creation scientists have shown that a global flood would be
capable of cavitating the edges of a supercontinent to form
continent-wide strata of sand, lime and mud sediments via
tsunamis, caused by a large body temporarily orbiting the Earth
on a highly elliptical orbit, which would also fossilize large
and delicate organisms quickly.
<A>__SEDIMENTARY ROCK ORIGIN
- [Sedimentary Rock Origin] Great Flood Videos
I was having a question lately about where all the sand, mud and
lime would have come from if the sedimentary rock layers on
continents were all formed during the Great Flood. After hearing
the following video explain it, it seems it should have been
obvious: they came largely from the seafloors. I wasn't thinking
of the possibility that the oceans could have been stirred up
enough to move much of the sediments from the seafloors onto the
land.
Here are my Notes on the Flood Video called The Worldwide Flood
- Geologic Evidences: youtube.com/watch?v=jwGgSNDPhO0
3'37": Evidence: If there was a Great Flood, the ocean waters
could have flooded the continents, bringing along sand, mud and
ocean creatures.
5'20": Tapeats Sandstone, Redwall Limestone and Coconino
Sandstone belong to 5 megasequences of strata that cover much of
North America.
5'42": Tapeats covers about 2/3 of U.S. and part of western
Canada. It's also found in Israel.
6'24": Redwall having same features and fossils is found in AZ,
TN, PA, England, Himalayas near Nepal,
7'00": Cretacious chalk, over 1,000 ft thick in places, is found
in Ireland, S. England, Europe, Egypt, Turkey, Western Australia
and in the U.S. from NE to TX.
8'40": Coconino, 300 ft thick, has crossbedding diagonal to the
horizontal strata formed from underwater sand dune waves with
the tops washed off.
10'53": Coconino covers from AZ to KS to TX. The sand waves
started at 60 ft high each in water moving 3-5 mph. Coconino was
deposited in a few days. The entire Grand Canyon strata were
deposited in a few months.
12'54": Ayers Rock in central Australia is sandstone with nearly
vertical strata with grains of different sizes, angular and some
delicate, meaning they were deposited rapidly (from 60 miles
away).
15'57": Ayers sandstone is over 18,000 ft thick. It was
deposited within hours by turbidity currents moving up to 70
mph.
20'00": Coconino is over Hermit shale. Shale is hardened mud.
Coconino sand came from Canada
22'00": Navajo sandstone in s. Utah lies over Coconino. Navajo
sand contains zircons and quartz eroded from mountains of PA and
NY.
23'00": Sand waves are direction indicators, indicating that
Flood waters flowed during the Paleozoic over the Americas from
n.e. to s.w. The same direction of flow occurred on the other
continents too.
<>__KOLA BOREHOLE STRATA
Gordon & Brigit, The following seems to show that the 12 km deep
Kola borehole project found mostly igneous rock nearly all the
way down. There are some thin layers of sedimentary rock down to
6 km and a very thin layer at 7 km. There may be some melted
metamorphic rock that was formerly sedimentary down to 7 km.
Then it's just metamorphic rock that was formerly igneous, i.e.
granite below 7 km (or below 4.4 miles). Gordon, do you have
comments on this?
Data on the Kola Superdeep Borehole
HTML http://www.zmescience.com/other/great-pics/geographical-facts-youre-not-going-to-believe-22022010/
Graph:
HTML http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/geolsection.gif
Proterozoic
0-1k) Augite Diabases with Pyroxene & Porphyrites
----- ([Igneous] Diabase = subvolcanic rock equivalent to
volcanic basalt or plutonic gabbro)
0>1k, 2>4k) Basic Tuffs & Tuffites
----- ([Igneous] predominantly pyroclasts = volcanic ash)
0>2k) Phyllites, Silkstones with Tuff layers
----- ([Metamorphic/Sedimentary] from shale, silt etc)
0>3k) Gabbro-Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>3k) Laminated Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from sand)
0>3-5k) Achnolitic Diabases
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above)
0>5+6k) Dolomites, polynistic Sandstones
----- ([Sedimentary] from lime & sand)
4>5k) Sericitic Schists
----- ([Metamorphic] possibly from melted/hardened sand or
shale)
3>5-6k) Metadiabases
----- ([Metamorphic] diabase from [Igneous]: see Diabase above)
5>6-7k) Diabase Porphyrites & Schists
----- ([Igneous] See Diabase above; & [Metamorphic] see Schists
above)
6>7k) Conglomerates
----- ([Sedimentary] from cemented rounded rocks, larger than
sand grains)
6>7-12k) Muscovite-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with high
alumina content minerals
-AND Epidote-biotite-plagioclase gniesses with amphibolites,
amphibolite schists & ultramafites
----- ([Metamorphic] from Igneous granite or Sedimentary rock)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Postby webolife» Tue Jan 12, 2016
3:51 am
The bore hole sampling confirms my assertion that the strata
below Cambrian are primordial, ie. original crust modified when
the first continent raised up above the global sea in Day 2, an
event which would have been accompanied by erosion and initial
depositional sequences, along with igneous upheaval and
intrusive/granitic formation, and "country" rock metamorphism
due to pressure and heat. Since life first appeared on the
surface of this continent, it is expected that there would be
limited fossils found in the "surface" layers of the
"Pre-Cambrian".
<A>- [I see 4 possibilities for the source of sand and clay
sediments. They could have come from:
1. erosion of the granite continental shelf of the
supercontinent;
2. erosion of the basalt ocean floor;
3. erosion of subsurface granite or basalt;
4. precipitation of detritus from space.
The first is Baumgardner's theory. The second is other
creationists' view. The third is Brown's. The last is Cardona's,
with Saturn flares being the specific source. #1 seems the most
plausible, since megatsunamis caused by a planetoidal/asteroidal
tidal pull would mostly affect the supercontinental shelf,
probably in the western Pacific around Asia. Baumgardner
explained that high velocity water, as in a megatsunami, causes
cavitation, which can rapidly erode solid rock via vacuum
pressure. But the shelf may also have contained a lot of sand
and clay from normal rain erosion of the supercontinent for
thousands or millions of years. That could be moved even more
easily by "tidal waves".]
<B>__- 9. CATASTROPHISM WEAKEST POINTS
LK: Where are the main gaps in Catastrophism theory?
GW: Gaps in Catastrophic concepts. Our current epoch of relative
geologic calm, cyclical seasons and climate were
prescribed/predicted at the end of the flood event. Until people
begin to recognize that our present case is a result and
recovery from the cataclysm of old, the only thing that will
convince them is the next global catastrophe. Perhaps even for
some this is the lure of Anthropogenic Global Warming and its
attendant catastrophes. So the "gap" is the the modern cultural
mind. Along with this, the standard model indoctrination of
radiometric dating, taught without reference or regard for the
assumptions on which it is built, is a roadblock for many.
"Hasn't science proven the world is 4.5 billions years old?" it
will be commonly quipped.
<A>- Why must it have been a sheet of water? Falling rain would
cut only channels. Flowing rivers or streams, even if they
meandered for millions of years, would not uniformly sweep 1,000
feet or more of material off almost all of these 10,000 square
miles of the fairly flat Kaibab Limestone. Besides, meandering
rivers would produce meandering patterns. Therefore, before you
can excavate 800 cubic miles of rock below the rim to form the
Grand Canyon, something must sweep off almost all the Mesozoic
rock above — a much larger excavation project. Surprisingly, the
Mesozoic rock has also been swept off the Kaibab Plateau. How
could water get so high? Maybe the sweeping process — the Great
Denudation — occurred before the Kaibab Plateau rose. [YES! The
plateau and all mountain ranges were uplifted after a large
asteroid impact split up the supercontinent, apparently a short
time after the flood.]
<B>__- 3. CATASTROPHISM BEST EVIDENCE
LK: What is the best physical evidence of Catastrophism?
a. Berthault's findings on sedimentation?
b. interbedding of lava and sedimentary rock in Washington etc?
c. Fisher's findings of the large crater on the east side of
Africa?
- Can you name other evidence here that you think should be
discussed?
GW: Astroblemes associated with every major stratum, the strata
themeselves, the absence of record for the 100-millions of years
hiatuses
<B>__THICK ATMOSPHERE
- Earth's atmosphere was likely thicker before the Great Flood
cataclysm, so that the stars were not visible. Only the nearby
planets and the Sun were visible. Earth had no visible Moon
initially.
<B>- LIQUEFACTION
- Liquefaction During the Flood
- SUMMARY: Liquefaction ... played a major role in rapidly
sorting sediments, plants, and animals during the flood. Indeed,
the worldwide presence of sorted fossils and sedimentary layers
shows that a gigantic global flood occurred. Massive
liquefaction also left other diagnostic features such as
cross-bedded sandstone, plumes, mounds, and fossilized
footprints.
- The Origin of Strata and Layered Fossils
What would happen to buried animals and plants in temporarily
liquefied sediments?
- As we will see, fluid-like sediments produced a buoyancy that
largely explains why fossils show a degree of vertical sorting
and why sedimentary rocks all over the world are typically so
sharply layered. During liquefaction [common with water
saturated soil during earthquakes], denser particles sink and
lighter particles (and dead organisms, soon to become fossils)
float up — until a liquefaction lens is encountered. Lenses of
water form along nearly horizontal paths if the sediments below
those horizontal paths are more permeable than those above, so
more water flows up into each lens than out through its roof.
Sedimentary particles and dead organisms buried in the sediments
were sorted and resorted into vast, thin layers.
<B>- STRATA FORMATION
- A sedimentary layer often spans hundreds of thousands of
square miles. (River deltas, where sediment thicknesses grow
most rapidly [in modern times], are a tiny fraction of that
area.) Liquefaction during a global flood would account for the
vast expanse of these thick layers. Current processes and eons
of time do not.
- One thick, extensive sedimentary layer has remarkable purity.
The St. Peter sandstone, spanning about 500,000 square miles in
the central United States, is composed of almost pure quartz,
similar to sand on a white beach. It is hard to imagine how any
geologic process, other than global liquefaction, could achieve
this degree of purity over such a wide area.21 Almost all other
processes involve mixing, which destroys purity.
- Today, sediments are usually deposited in and by rivers —
along a narrow line. However, individual sedimentary rock layers
are spread over large geographical areas, not on long narrow,
streamlike paths. Liquefaction during the flood acted on all
sediments and sorted them over wide areas in weeks or months.
<B>- MOUNDS
- Liquefaction Plumes and Mounds. The large water content of
liquefied sand layers (40%) would have made them quite buoyant.
Whenever a low-density, fluid layer (such as a water-sand
mixture) underlies a denser, liquefied layer, the lighter fluid,
if shaken, will float up in plumes through the denser fluid.
Sand plumes that penetrated overlying layers are seen in many
places on earth.
- During the [flood], liquefied water-sand mixtures in many
places erupted like small volcanoes. Being surrounded and
permeated by water, they would have quickly slumped into the
shape of an upside-down bowl — a liquefaction mound. As the
flood waters drained at the end of the flood, most liquefaction
mounds were swept away, because they did not have time to be
cemented. However, mounds inside postflood lakes (basins) were
cemented as each lake cooled and its dissolved silica and
calcium carbonate were forced out of solution. If a lake later
breached and dumped its water, the larger cemented mounds could
resist the torrent of rushing water and retain their shapes. The
basins that held Grand and Hopi Lakes contain hundreds of such
mounds. The sudden breaching of those lakes several centuries
after the flood carved the Grand Canyon.
<B>- Ayers Rock ... in central Australia ... has characteristics
of both a broad liquefaction plume and a liquefaction mound.
<B>- Missing Mesozoic STRATUM
- Actually, cutting through the Kaibab Plateau is a relatively
minor problem, and carving the entire Grand Canyon is not even
half the problem. The Grand Canyon’s rim consists of hard Kaibab
Limestone, typically 350 feet thick. When you walk to the
canyon’s edge to look down, you are standing on Kaibab
Limestone. It extends away from the canyon in all directions,
covering about 10,000 square miles. However, rising 1,000 feet
above this Kaibab Limestone at a few dozen isolated spots are
softer (crumbly or weakly cemented) Mesozoic rocks; they are
always capped on top by a very hard rock, such as lava.
Obviously, lava did not flow up to the top; lava, which flows
downhill, collected in a depression and hardened. Later, a
fast-moving sheet of water flowed over northern Arizona and
swept all the soft Mesozoic rock off the hard Kaibab Limestone —
except for the few dozen spots capped and protected by hard
rock.
<C>__BROWN'S GREAT FLOOD
- WALTER BROWN'S FLOOD INFO
<- World Lines Map
HTML http://www.geologicdata.com/gds-world-maps
>
I don't find Brown's Hydroplate theory to be plausible, but his
online book has a lot of good flood info
<C>... WATER HAMMERS ...
- Water hammers occur, often with a loud bang, when a fluid
flowing in a pipe is suddenly stopped (or slowed) by closing (or
narrowing) a valve, such as a faucet. A water hammer is similar
to the collision of a long train. The faster and more massive
the flowing volume of water, the greater the sudden compression
(or pressure pulse) throughout the pipe as the water is slowed
or stopped. A water hammer concentrates energy, just as a hammer
striking a nail concentrates energy and produces forces many
times greater than a resting hammer.
<C>- FLUTTER
- Vibrations often begin when a fluid (a liquid or gas) flows
along a relatively thin, flexible surface, such as the wing of
an airplane or a flat plate. If (a) the flowing fluid
continually “thumps” or pushes the flexible surface back toward
its neutral position, and (b) the “thumping” frequency
approaches any natural frequency of the wing or plate, large,
potentially damaging oscillations (or resonances), called
flutter, can occur.
- Water [moving] beneath earth’s crust [in large caves and
aquifers along with tidal waves over the crust] during the flood
caused the crust to flutter, and its large area gave it great
flexibility. Each narrowing of the subsurface flow channel by
the vibrating crust slowed [vast amounts] of water and produced
water hammers that “thumped” the crust at each of its natural
frequencies. Undulations rippled throughout the crust, producing
other water hammers, more undulations, pulsations ..., and huge
flutter amplitudes. Most people have heard water pipes banging
or have seen pipes burst when only a few cubic feet of water
were slowed. Imagine the excruciating pressures from rapidly
slowing a “moving underground ocean.”12
<C>- SEDIMENT SOURCE/S
- Sediments, such as sand and clay, are produced by eroding
crystalline rock, such as granite or basalt. Sedimentary rocks
are cemented sediments. On the continents, they average more
than a mile in thickness. Today, two-thirds of continental
surface rocks are sedimentary; one-third is crystalline. Was
crystalline rock, eroded at earth’s surface, the source of the
original sediments? If it was, the first blanket of eroded
sediments would prevent that rock from producing additional
sediments. The more sediments produced, the fewer the sediments
that could be produced. Exposed crystalline rock would disappear
long before all today’s sediments and sedimentary rocks could
form. Transporting those new sediments, often great distances,
is another difficulty. Clearly, most sediments did not come from
the earth’s surface. ...
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