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DAT
By: Admin Date: April 16, 2023, 2:37 pm
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CATACLYSM DATES & SOME ANALYSIS
In my last post I listed 6 sources that indicate that a global
cataclysm occurred within 3 centuries before 2,000 BC.
2188 BC EGYPT: A Byzantinian said Egypt existed since that year,
apparently not long after a Great Flood.
2244 BC ATLANTIS: The OERA LINDA BOOK said Atlantis sank that
year.
2285 BC? GLOBAL FLOOD: The TOLTECS said a Great Flood occurred
then.
2344 BC GLOBAL FLOOD: The GREAT PYRAMID indicates a Great Flood
occurred that year.
2345 BC GLOBAL FLOOD: The BIBLE says the Great Flood occurred
then.
2345 BC ASTEROID IMPACT: Astronomer George Dodwell said in
SCIENCE MAGAZINE that an asteroid Hit the Earth at that time.
I was hoping Dodwell's finding would provide the best evidence
for a date, but the following paper says it, and especially his
dating, is not well supported by the data. On the other hand,
legends indicate that something violently shook the Earth and
greatly changed its motion in ancient times. I'll show the
conclusion from the paper against Dodwell first, then the
legends which support the sources above.
An Analysis of the Dodwell Hypothesis
HTML https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/an-analysis-of-the-dodwell-hypothesis/
_Conclusion
_I have examined the methodology that Dodwell employed in
developing his hypothesis that the earth was subjected to a
catastrophic change in its tilt in 2345 BC, an alleged
catastrophe that the earth has recovered from as recently as
1850. In a few instances I have had difficulty in replicating
Dodwell’s results. In other cases Dodwell was a bit overzealous
in extracting data and uncritically relied upon secondary
sources. With no discussion of errors in the observations, it
appears that he treated his data with near infinite precision.
Dodwell’s hypothesis is highly dependent upon early measurements
of the obliquity of the ecliptic that are not supported by
Egyptologists. From these considerations, I consider the Dodwell
hypothesis untenable. Despite these defects, a skeptical
analysis that I have conducted here has left a few data points
that are difficult to square with the conventional understanding
of the obliquity of the ecliptic over time. While I cannot rule
out that in the past the earth’s tilt was altered by some yet
unknown mechanism, neither can I confirm it. The most reliable
ancient data do not demand the sort of catastrophic change in
the earth’s tilt with a gradual recovery that Dodwell
maintained, so there is great doubt that this alleged event
happened. If such an event actually happened, we cannot fix the
date of that event with any certainty. Creationists are
discouraged from embracing the Dodwell hypothesis.
____>Surprise Witness: What Really Happened During the Flood
HTML https://books.google.com/books?id=JKLfy8bc5uoC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=Dodwell+something+%22struck%22+the+earth&source=bl&ots=luRudjwo3C&sig=ACfU3U2QxDX-7bSFOqDxo5ZEUeO6Gd_2_Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjS2s6Q_eLxAhXPB80KHc0iDhcQ6AEwBXoECB4QAw#v=onepage&q=Dodwell%20something%20%22struck%22%20the%20earth&f=false
p15 The tilting remembered
_This tilting of the earth's axis is handed down with
teror-struck impressiveness in the traditions of many nations. A
few examples will suffice.
-- Eskimos: The earth tilted violently before the Flood began.
-- Mexico: "The earth shook to its foundations. The sky sank
lower towards the north. The sun, moon and stars changed their
motions. The earth fell to pieces, and the waters in its bosom
uprushed with violence and overflowed.... The system of the
universe was totally disordered. Man had rebelled against the
high gods. The sun went into eclipse, the planets altered their
courses."6
-- China: The earth tilted violently before the Deluge. The sky
suddenly began to fall northward. The heavenly bodies changed
their courses after the earth had been shaken.
-- Egypt: The earth turned over.7
-- Greenland (natives): When the Great Flood came, the earth
capsized like a boat.
-- The Polynesians and Hindus also related this phenomenon.
_In Tractate Sanhedrin of the Talmud it is said, "Seven days
before the deluge, the Holy One changed the primeval order and
the sun rose in the west and set in the east."
_Certainly, if our planet's axis had been tilted, the sky [or
the stars etc] would appear to have moved in relation to the
earth.
^____
Following are some other sources that discussed Dodwell's model,
but I haven't read them. I assume that the two sources above are
the most relevant and useful, at least regarding Dodwell.
An Evaluation of Astronomical Young-Age Determination
HTML https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/age-of-the-universe/an-evaluation-of-astronomical-young-age-determination-methods-i-solar-system/
"IT'S A YOUNG WORLD AFTER ALL"
HTML https://creationism.org/books/ackerman/AckermanYoungWorldChap11.htm
George Dodwell
HTML https://atlantipedia.ie/samples/tag/george-dodwell/
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Re: Creationism, Myth and Catastrophism
Post by Lloyd » Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:04 pm
73903
PREVIOUS CATACLYSM DATES
I started doing major research on Catastrophism almost 6 years
ago. On Saturday, Oct 31, 2015, I posted the following, but
edited, at
HTML http://www.thunderbolts.inf
o/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16025#p108920
[2244 BC OERA LINDA BOOK] ... An ancient history book, the Oera
Linda Boek, dating primarily from AD 803, but added to for 500
years, bears this postscript: “written in Liuwert (Ljuwert) in
the 3,499th year after Atland (Atlantis) sank, or 1256, the year
of the Christian reckoning.” This historian placed the sinking
of Atlantis in 2244 BC (Alec Maclellan, The Lost World of
Agharti. 1982, p. 186).
[TOLTECS] WHAT THE TOLTECS REMEMBERED ABOUT HISTORY: In the
sixteenth century, the native Mexican chronicler, Ixtilxochitl
in his Relaciones penned a history based on all available
pre-Conquest records and legends. ... The Flood came “after the
world had existed for 1,716 years” (Francis Hitching, World
Atlas of Mysteries. 1978, p.165). This is only a 60 year
variation from the figure given in the King James Bible.
(Genesis chapter 5)
[2188 BC] EGYPT: Egypt’s monuments themselves do not begin their
records before the 19th dynasty. The Byzantine chronicler
Constantinus Manasses wrote that the State of Egypt had already
lasted 1663 years, [since] 2188 BC. Egypt was anciently known as
the land of Khem (i.e. Ham [son of Noah]). Menes and Hermes were
two of Ham’s sons. HERMES (CUSH) WAS FOUNDER OF EGYPT’S
RELIGION.
[2344 BC GREAT PYRAMID] FLOOD DATE ALSO DEFINED: The Flood ended
in 2344 BC. The Great Pyramid independently confirms this date
(Stewart, The Mystery of the Great Pyramid, pp 17-19). The star
group Aquarius is featured in the astronomy of the Pyramid.
Ancient peoples associated AQUARIUS with the waters of the GREAT
FLOOD. The pyramid measurements incorporate the length of the
new, post-Flood 365¼ day year, and NOT the pre-Flood 360 day
year.
-The ancient Chinese, Babylonian, Roman, Mayan, Indian and
Egyptian calendars were 360 days long. But later, every nation
changed its calendar.
[2345 BC SCIENCE MAGAZINE] Something Hit the Earth (See
HTML http://newgeology.us
)
AXIS RECOVERY (4,355 YEARS): summer solstices at Stonehenge,
Amen Ra, Eodoxus show an exponential curve of recovery of the
earth’s axis after a sudden change. The earth’s axis had once
been almost upright, but it had suddenly changed to a 26½
degrees tilt, from which it had been wobbling back to its
present mean tilt of 23½ degrees (Science Magazine, May 15,
1970). Dodwell concluded that something "struck" the earth at
that time, 2345 BC.
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BIBLE FLOOD DATE: 3300 BC
_I'm not a creationist, but I find creation science to be better
than mainstream geology. JP Michael once said that the Bible has
evidence of having been written by some of the Biblical
Patriarchs. If that is true and if their writings were passed
down to Moses, then the Biblical record might be fairly
accurate. But I'll rely more on other ways of dating the Flood.
_In this post
HTML https://www.thunderbolts.inf
o/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=690#p7710
I concluded that the Septuagint Old Testament Flood Date of c.
3300 BC is better than the Masoretic Old Testament date of c.
2400 BC.
I referenced this article:
HTML https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j31_1/J31_1_120-127.pdf<br
/>which mentions 11 arguments for accepting the Septuagint over
the Masoretic. The most telling arguments of these IMO are as
follows.
"5. Jewish historians from about 200 BC to 100 AD, including
most of Josephus’ numbers, referenced the LXX chronology.
7. The earliest witness to the MT chronology occurs in the Seder
Olam Rabbah, which severely reduced post-exilic chronology in
order to disqualify Jesus as the Messiah that Daniel 9:6
foretold.
11. The Pharisees generally believed that the Messiah would
arrive during the sixth millennium after creation. They
marshalled the few remaining Scriptures available to them after
Bar Kochba revolt in 132–136 AD to finalize the MT. This moment
in history could have enabled their alteration of Genesis 11 and
5 to shrink the world’s chronology enough to discredit Jesus as
the sixth millennium Messiah, without accountability.
"
Here are the differences in ages between the LXX=Septuagint c.
300 BC, MT=Masoretic c. 135 AD?, and SP=Peshita c. 150 AD.
Name LXX MT SP
Noah 500 500 500
Shem 100 100 100
Arphaxad 135 35 135
[Cainan] [130] – –
Shelah 130 30 130
Eber 134 34 134
Peleg 130 30 130
Reu 132 32 132
Serug 130 30 130
Nahor 79 29 79
Terah 70 70 70
Flood to Terah's first born Sum: 1070 292 940
_Brigit first informed me of the differences in Flood dates of
the two versions. At this post
HTML https://www.thunderbolts.inf
o/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=360#p3472
she said: "There are two different dates for the global deluge.
The reason is that there are different numbers given in the
Masoretic Text and the Septuagint, plus Josephus. I atm
persuaded that the correct date of the Second Deluge of Gen 6
was +-3300 BC following the Septuagint and mentioned by
Josephus."
_I don't know why she called Noah's Flood the Second Deluge,
unless she accepts conventional dating of the Younger Dryas
Flood at around 10,000 BC, which would make it the first. But
Noah's Flood deposited basically all of the sedimentary rock
strata on which the Ice Sheet formed and which Ice Sheet melted
to yield the YD Flood. So the YD obviously had to come later and
the Bible may have a clue for that, if I can find it back.
_On this page
HTML https://www.thunderbolts.inf
o/forum3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13&start=705
she referenced Henry Smith's article at
HTML https://biblearchaeology.org/
titled "Methuselah’s Begetting Age
in Genesis 5:25 ..."
_JP Michael then read it and said: "Thank you for bringing that
article to my attention, Brigit. I am rather impressed by the
detail of Mr. Smith's scholarship. I accept his evidence; 100%
persuaded. MT chronology, as it pertains to Genesis 5 and 11,
can go on the scrap heap, as can the evidence-free LXX inflation
theory. MT chronology may still be relevant in other areas, but
when it comes to Genesis 5 & 11, I think Mr. Smith's assertions
are soundly backed up with solid reasoning and evidence. The LXX
chronology is preferred. The Flood occurred in 3,300 BCE
according to that textual tradition, and I now accept this date
on reasonable grounds as the approximate time of that worldwide
conflagration."
_I think he meant deluge, instead of conflagration, since the
latter means destruction by fire. Actually, there may be
evidence of conflagrations accompanying both Noah's and the YD
Floods.
__In this article
HTML https://creation.com/biblical-age-of-the-earth<br
/>the Septuagint indicates that the Flood probably occurred
between 2972 & 3386 BC according to the LXXII Bible.
Oard chapter on Ice Age. 500 years warmth after Flood. Ice Sheet
completed after 500 years. Most mammoths drowned in Flood before
Ice Age. Small mammoths survived on Wrangle Island north of
eastern Siberia till 4,000 BP?
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