DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 119276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 4:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Video shows that the YBJ markings are not all that worn.On the
other hand, its taken from height, and doesn't show what a
driver would see. Basically, they only want the money to will
take it to the wire to get it. The only place you'd get an
unbiased opinion is London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty
in play. If you decide to go down that route, and want to
present the best possible case, you'd really need to go to the
location when it's pouring with rain and take photos or a video
to show the visibility of the YBJ as evidence in your appeal.
#Post#: 119283--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: GirlFriday
Date: May 20, 2026, 4:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Video shows that the YBJ markings are not all that worn.On the
other hand, its taken from height, and doesn't show what a
driver would see. Basically, they only want the money to will
take it to the wire to get it. The only place you'd get an
unbiased opinion is London Tribunals with the full PCN penalty
in play. If you decide to go down that route, and want to
present the best possible case, you'd really need to go to the
location when it's pouring with rain and take photos or a video
to show the visibility of the YBJ as evidence in your appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
The full penalty is at play already so I guess its all or
nothing now - only issue is the deadline is this weekend and the
weather in London (bizarrely!) is showing as full on sunshine!
(when ever has a bank holiday week NOT been a washout?!) I know
there were some more photo's taken when he next went to the area
and I've just left a message asking them to be forwarded on to
me. Fingers crossed they were taken whilst rainy weather..
Will post on here as soon as I get them. There are a few close
ups taken of the yellow box in the first post.
[member=262]JimmyM[/member] posted this about the wording of the
pcn/ box size (post no.9) if that'd carry any weight?
#Post#: 119288--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No discount on offer means its a total no-brainer to take them
to London Tribunals.
Good luck and hope you win.
#Post#: 119292--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: MrChips
Date: May 20, 2026, 6:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think the visibility of the box is your strongest argument.
Looking at the evidence photo on your PCN, if you didn't already
know the box was there, you'd never realise there was a box
junction in the picture.
A video taken in similar conditions from a driver's point of
view would be super helpful, but difficult to achieve in
practice at this time of year.
You might want to consider having a go at night even if it isn't
raining as that might also help if it shows the markings are
faded - the adjudicator can apply his/her own judgement to
extrapolate to how these might look in the rain.
#Post#: 119339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: GirlFriday
Date: May 20, 2026, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Nightime View
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ymYDbpTQ/IMG-20260220-WA0049.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/ymYDbpTQ<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/5hM4CP9m/IMG-20260220-WA0047.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/5hM4CP9m<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/DP5zWb8j/IMG-20260220-WA0044.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/DP5zWb8j<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/JWqj5kQT/IMG-20260220-WA0042.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/JWqj5kQT
HTML https://i.ibb.co/xT4gDTk/IMG-20260220-WA0037.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/xT4gDTk
Daytime View (not very bright - struggle to spot it in a couple
of photo's
HTML https://i.ibb.co/bMmwKZdJ/IMG-20260520-WA0010.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/bMmwKZdJ<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/tTBsNd0Y/IMG-20260520-WA0011.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/tTBsNd0Y<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/RkWdSGcg/IMG-20260520-WA0012.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/RkWdSGcg<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/DxCcjg0/IMG-20260520-WA0014.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/DxCcjg0
#Post#: 119340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: GirlFriday
Date: May 20, 2026, 12:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MrChips link ---
>
> I think the visibility of the box is your strongest argument.
Looking at the evidence photo on your PCN, if you didn't already
know the box was there, you'd never realise there was a box
junction in the picture.
>
> A video taken in similar conditions from a driver's point of
view would be super helpful, but difficult to achieve in
practice at this time of year.
>
> You might want to consider having a go at night even if it
isn't raining as that might also help if it shows the markings
are faded - the adjudicator can apply his/her own judgement to
extrapolate to how these might look in the rain.
>
--- End Quote ---
Pictures posted as received ^.
What are thoughts on the junction box? The yellow lines are
definitely are not solid opaque, mind. Nope, he's not from the
area at all so didn't have a berties about the yellow box being
there.
Would like to know what the you guys think? Am hoping to do the
appeal form and post out on the Friday (deadline is Monday).
Tia.
#Post#: 119358--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 20, 2026, 5:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your photos show a clear YBJ in the dry. You need a rainy night
before an adjudication so you can get a representative picture.
If you register an appeal now, it is likely to be some weeks
before you get a hearing date. Always opt for a hearing, and
NEVER a decision just on the papers.
Hearings are by phone or video, (MS Teams, I think). The
councils almost never attend.
#Post#: 119690--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: GirlFriday
Date: May 25, 2026, 7:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
28 days appeal deadline so must get this out today! ( received
28.04.2026)
As it's a Bank Holiday I won't be able to run this down to the
P.0 (and obtain proof of postage) so will submit it online for
him. Please can someone just cast an eye over this - and let me
know if it's sufficient?
The place where the alleged contravention happened is approx
30miles away so will ask him to (if poss) drive up on a rainy
evening to take photos before the hearing date.
____________________________________________
I respectfully submit this appeal against the Penalty Charge
Notice issued by the London Borough of Brent in relation to the
alleged yellow box junction contravention at Salisbury Avenue /
Hartland Road.
At the time of the alleged contravention I was unfamiliar with
the area, as I do not live locally and had not previously driven
through this junction.
The incident occurred during darkness and in heavy rain.
Although street lighting was present, the weather conditions
significantly reduced visibility of the carriageway markings.
The yellow box junction markings were not sufficiently visible
to me on approach and I genuinely did not see the full extent of
the box before entering it. Had I seen the markings clearly, I
would have exercised greater caution and waited before
proceeding.
I also did not observe any illuminated advance warning signage
drawing attention to the box junction. In conditions of darkness
and heavy rainfall, reliance is placed primarily on the
visibility of the road markings themselves. Due to the wet road
surface, glare from headlights and reflections from street
lighting, the box markings were difficult to distinguish.
This can also be seen from the CCTV footage provided by Brent
Council, which shows the heavy rain, darkness, reflections from
lighting, and the generally poor visibility conditions at the
time of the alleged contravention.
In fact, when reviewing the council’s own evidence photographs,
I personally had to look carefully and double check to
distinguish that a yellow box junction was even present, as the
markings are extremely difficult to see in the images provided.
This further demonstrates the reduced visibility conditions that
existed at the time.
I submit that these conditions materially affected my ability to
identify the junction markings in sufficient time to safely
assess whether my exit was clear. This was not deliberate misuse
of the junction or an attempt to gain advantage in traffic. I
was driving cautiously in poor weather conditions in an
unfamiliar area.
I would also respectfully ask the Adjudicator to consider
previous tribunal decisions where visibility and road conditions
were found relevant to the enforceability of yellow box junction
markings. Adjudicators have accepted that darkness, rain, worn
markings, and reduced visibility may impair a driver’s ability
to properly identify a box junction and judge the available exit
space.
In the circumstances, I respectfully request that the appeal be
allowed and that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.
___________________________________________________
Should I add the below in (for good measure?) I found this
looking back on this helpful forum:
Also, the wording of the PCN incites confusion and fails to
clearly convey the mandatory information required under
Paragraph 4(8)(v) of the London Local Authorities and Transport
for London Act 2003, namely that if the penalty charge is not
paid before the end of the relevant 28-day period, an increased
charge may become payable.
The legislation distinguishes between two separate time periods:
1. Payment of the penalty charge, which must be made within 28
days beginning with the date of the notice; and
2. The submission of representations, which are calculated from
the date of service of the notice (deemed to be two working days
after the date of the notice).
However, the PCN states:
“If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations
before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of
service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be
payable.”
This wording is unclear because it conflates the two separate
statutory periods into one. The use of the word “or” combines
payment and representations, despite the fact that each is
governed by a different starting date under the legislation.
As a result, the PCN creates confusion as to the correct
deadline for payment. A motorist reading the notice could
reasonably conclude that payment is also calculated from the
date of service, when the legislation states that payment runs
from the date of the notice itself.
Further confusion arises because the PCN omits the mandatory
statutory wording relating specifically to payment before the
end of the 28-day period beginning with the date of the notice.
Accordingly, the PCN fails to clearly and accurately communicate
the recipient’s legal obligations and time limits, rendering it
non-compliant with the requirements of the 2003 Act.
________________________________________
Any help appreciated - don't want to mess this up!
Please let me know if I should add/ omit/ amend anything?
Thanks a lot
#Post#: 119715--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: May 25, 2026, 4:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Remove reference to advance warning of the box junction, because
these "Devices of the Devil" require no signs at all.
#Post#: 119716--------------------------------------------------
Re: Charge Notice - Code 31 Yellow Box BRENT Salusbury Road/
Hartland Road NW6
DIR By: GirlFriday
Date: May 25, 2026, 4:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> Remove reference to advance warning of the box junction,
because these "Devices of the Devil" require no signs at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
Very true - I will take that bit out, thank you for
highlighting.
The rest is OK?
EDIT: just recalculated - letter dated 28/04/26 states to
appeal within 28 days from day of service, so that would mean
deadline is Wednesday and not today... in which case - i'll do
it tomorra (Tuesday)! (google says day of service is 2days from
date on letter - hope that's right!)
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 3
DIR Previous Page