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#Post#: 110324--------------------------------------------------
Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 8:15 am
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Hello,
I need advice on appealing a PCN I received on Sunday 15th
February at 8:49 AM for parking on a single yellow line.
I have been a resident in this area for 9 years and hold a valid
resident permit. The evening before the PCN, I returned home
after dark and all resident bays were full, so I parked on a
single yellow line. The nearest clearly visible sign was for an
adjacent pay-and-display bay and stated restrictions
Monday–Saturday, so I reasonably believed Sunday parking was
allowed.
When I discovered the PCN the next morning, I walked around the
area and found a sign indicating the restriction—but it is
facing away from the road I had parked on. There were no other
signs visible from my position, and the road is quite busy with
vehicles traveling at around 30mph, so it is unsafe to exit the
car and inspect signage. I have photos taken at night showing
the visibility issue.
I understand that under Regulations, signs must clearly inform
drivers of restrictions. I believe this PCN was unfair due to
inadequate and poorly oriented signage and the inability to
reasonably know about Sunday restrictions.
In this case, the combination of:
- the clearly visible nearby sign indicating Monday–Saturday
restrictions
- the absence of visible signage facing the location where the
vehicle was parked
- the orientation of the relevant sign facing away from the
location
- the risk posed by the road’s speed and traffic density
Location: Honeypot Lane (near junction with Westmoreland Road)
Google Street view link:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSxijRq4McojfFgp9
My question: what is the best way to frame an appeal? Should I
focus on signage visibility, safety concerns, or both? Any
guidance on evidence or precedents that strengthen this type of
appeal would be very helpful.
Thank you for your advice.
Jon
[img width=800]
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#rhEgOXd[/img]
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#XvOr3nk[/img]
[img width=1010]
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#KfgKgG1[/img]
#Post#: 110326--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 8:21 am
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Trying to post images via imgpile again...
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#CWjCfwJ
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#CWjCfwJ[/img]
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#bf66ihI
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#frGG3xf
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#frGG3xf[/img]
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#rhEgOXd
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#rhEgOXd[/img]
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#XvOr3nk
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HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#XvOr3nk[/img]
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#KfgKgG1
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#Post#: 110327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 8:23 am
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PS: It is a Europcar rental car while our car is being repaired
- I contacted Europcar and they said to also email any appeal
details to them as well as the council.
#Post#: 110352--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: lexy
Date: February 19, 2026, 10:32 am
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Your biggest problem is gonna be the fact that it's a rental
car. If the council writes to Europcar and tells them there's a
penalty charge notice against the car, Europcar will charge a
£50 admin fee.
Europcar will also either:
- just pay the penalty charge notice, then bill it to your
credit card
- supply your name and address to the council, transferring
liability to you
Europcar also say they won't refund the £50 admin charge if you
win the appeal. They'll only refund it if you win and the
council confirms in writing that the penalty charge notice
should never have been issued. That's a really weird requirement
and councils don't usually give that. So it looks like you won't
be getting that £50 back easily.
That kind of changes your priorities when dealing with appeals.
Instead of doing "the right thing", you're focusing on "what
will cost me less?". There are some places in England where a
penalty charge is only £25 if you pay up quickly - it makes more
sense to pay those than it does to pay the £50 Europcar admin
fee, for example.
Your most important question is, do you have good reasons to
appeal, or should you pay the £80 before it goes up to £130 or
£210 once Europcar get involved?
Councils are allowed to have yellow lines that have different
enforcement days and times to the bays. That isn't unusual - it
happens in a lot of places. Assuming the lines will have the
same times as the bays generally isn't a good idea.
The sign for the single yellow line (the small yellow one) being
twisted and facing away from the road is a potential problem.
That makes it much harder to see, especially at night in the
dark. Some councils would back down if you showed photographic
evidence of that - I know my local council would. But London
councils are known to play hardball and reject everyone's first
challenge. That's probably your strongest appeal point if you do
decide to appeal.
#Post#: 110360--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 10:52 am
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Thanks for your detailed reply, I really appreciate you taking
the time.
My main concern here is that it is not right for vehicles to be
fined in this location given the positioning of the sign. The
single yellow line time plate is rotated away from the
carriageway. From where I parked (at night), the only clearly
visible sign was the pay-and-display sign facing the road, which
states Monday–Saturday restrictions. The yellow line plate was
not visible from that position.
I understand that yellow lines can have different hours from
bays, but in this case the issue isn’t the difference in
restriction — it’s that the relevant sign is not properly
oriented. It appears misaligned to the extent that it does not
adequately convey the restriction. I honestly struggle to
understand how enforcement at that location can be considered
fair if the sign is facing away from the line.
I had thought that Brent would likely reject an initial appeal
and that it might need to go to the tribunal stage. My hope
would be that an adjudicator would take the view that the
restriction was not adequately signed due to the positioning of
the time plate.
If it did go that far and the tribunal found in my favour on the
basis that the contravention did not occur (due to inadequate
signage), would that decision normally be strong enough to
challenge Europcar’s £50 admin fee? If their terms are that they
only refund it if the council confirms the PCN should never have
been issued, which seems like an unusual requirement. If a
tribunal allows the appeal, is that generally considered
equivalent to the PCN being invalid from the outset?
Given Brent’s £80 discount and the £50 admin fee risk, I’m
trying to balance the principle with the figures, but at the
same time, the signage genuinely appears defective.
Any thoughts appreciated.
#Post#: 110416--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 19, 2026, 6:09 pm
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Please post a GSV link to the location.
You can submit an informal challenge to the PCN, and it will
inevitably be rejected, because all London councils ruthlessly
game the system to maximise the cash, and know that when they
reject, over 95% of people then pay-up. If you then do not pay
the sum demanded, (usually the discounted amount), they will
send a Notice to Owner to the name and address on the V5C
Registration Certificate and that is the Europcar company who
will, in all likelihood advise you of this, pay the NtO, and
charge you an extra fee of £50 as Lexy says.
Only when you get a PCN with your name and address on it can you
formally appeal it, and be able to take the council to London
Tribunals.
Anywa, post the GSV link and let us see the sign layout.
#Post#: 110420--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 6:24 pm
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Thanks for the reply. Here is the GSV link to the location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/xSxijRq4McojfFgp9
However, the Street View I am being shown appears to be from
2016. You can see the current view, as it was when I parked
there, here:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/vmjizJG#frGG3xf
The key issue is that the single yellow line time plate is
oriented away from the carriageway and was not visible from
where I parked, particularly at night. The only clearly visible
sign facing the road indicated Monday–Saturday restrictions,
which is what led me to believe Sunday was unrestricted.
From what you’re saying, because it’s a hire vehicle, I may not
even get the opportunity to take it to tribunal unless liability
is transferred to me. That seems extremely unfair, especially if
the signage itself is defective.
I suppose my only immediate option is to submit an informal
challenge to the council and see whether they exercise
discretion.
The whole situation feels very unfair, particularly where
signage is not properly positioned yet enforcement is still
taking place.
Any further thoughts appreciated.
#Post#: 110428--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 19, 2026, 6:57 pm
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I think the yellow line is still the same length now as it is in
the GSV 2016 view, but in the 2016 view, there is no marked-out
parking bay or sign, which there needs to be for the current
sign that gives the parking arrangements.
The biggest problem for you is that the PCN was served because
you were on, or partially on, the yellow line. Did you not
notice this when parking ? If you park on a yellow line, you
have a duty to look for the sign giving the restricted times and
there is a sign, albeit turned away.
Any possibility of a photo showing the road in daylight with the
road markings shown, because your photo is from the other side
of the road ?
#Post#: 110433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: echo
Date: February 19, 2026, 7:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for your response.
Here is a daylight photo of the location showing the road
markings more clearly:
HTML https://imgpile.com/p/ZWkGqPI
I was aware I was parking on a single yellow line. That’s why I
specifically looked for the time plate before leaving the
vehicle. The only sign visible from where I was standing next to
the car was the larger parking sign facing the carriageway,
which states Monday–Saturday restrictions. There are no other
signs facing the road.
The single yellow time plate was not visible from beside the
vehicle without walking further along the carriageway. This is a
relatively busy road where vehicles regularly travel at 30mph
(or more), there is no proper pavement at that point, and the
ground was wet and muddy due to recent heavy rain. It would not
have felt safe or reasonable to walk along the edge of the
carriageway searching for a sign when I had already checked the
only one clearly facing the road.
I understand the principle that if you park on a yellow line you
must check the restriction. That is exactly what I attempted to
do. My argument isn’t that I failed to look, it’s that the
relevant sign is not positioned in a way that adequately conveys
the restriction to motorists parking lawfully and checking
signage from their vehicle.
It only applies to that specific single yellow section (it
becomes double yellow at the corner), so I cannot see why the
time plate would need to be angled away from the carriageway. If
properly oriented, it would be directly visible to drivers
parking there.
My concern is whether a sign that is rotated away from the road
satisfies the requirement that restrictions be clearly and
adequately conveyed.
Any further thoughts appreciated.
#Post#: 110448--------------------------------------------------
Re: Brent PCN, Code: 01, Honeypot Lane (near junction with
Westmoreland Road), Obscured Sign
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 20, 2026, 4:21 am
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All very well, but the sign you took to be the correct sign,
shows by what is on it that it isn't the sign for the yellow
line as well as the marked out parking bay. If it was it would
have had the No Waiting symbol on a yellow background with days
and times parking is barred, at the top of the sign, then the
parking information below it. Yes, the sign for the yellow line
is bent round but it is there if one looks for it.
So, assuming the council won't give way, are you prepared to
take them to London Tribunals and risk the full PCN ? You have
that right in law, but I have to say it would not be a
guaranteed win.
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