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       #Post#: 479--------------------------------------------------
       Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: chigz
       Date: June 26, 2023, 7:15 am
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       Hello,
       I recently received a PCN from Future parking ltd for allegedly
       parking without paying. This was at the Bourton Vale car park.
       Anyone who is familiar with the car park will know its has a
       connecting access to the Coop car park, the driver mistakenly
       drove through the coop car park to park in a shaded spot in the
       Bourton Vale car park (baby on board). When the driver realised
       they car parks were different the driver went back and parked in
       the Co-op car park and then left again through the Bourton vale
       car park exit. So for some reason they have only registered the
       driver's first entry and the 2nd exit point.
       I wanted to reply by asking them for the full logs but, just
       wanted to check how to word this in the right way so not to
       cause any future issues with an appeal.
       Not sure if the PCN is needed to be uploaded now but can do if
       required.
       Thank you
       #Post#: 529--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: June 26, 2023, 5:31 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       First step - Edit your post to not reveal who was driving. 'The
       driver' drove and you'll deal with the matter as the registered
       keeper (assuming you are?).
       Yes, let's see the notice you've received. Show us both pages,
       redact personal info but leave on all dates and times.
       Don't waste time asking for logs - they likely won't provide
       them, and it won't stop the clock on their appeal deadline. What
       has happened is known as a 'double dip', where their
       cameras/systems have failed to record two separate visits and
       instead recorded one long visit. Your appeal can state this as
       fact. But before firing anything off, let's see the notice
       you've received.
       #Post#: 645--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: chigz
       Date: June 30, 2023, 7:37 am
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       I have attached the PCN
  HTML https://imgur.com/9Yf45Sl
  HTML https://imgur.com/vXprRCT
       How do i edit the post above i dont see an option?
       #Post#: 686--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: guest179
       Date: July 1, 2023, 11:53 am
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       Anyone who is familiar with the car park will know its has a
       connecting access to the Coop car park, i mistakenly drove
       through the coop car park to park in a shaded spot in the
       Bourton Vale car park (baby on board). When I realised they car
       parks were different I went back and parked in the Co-op car
       park and then left again through the Bourton vale car park exit.
       So for some reason they have only registered my first entry and
       the 2nd exit point.
       Cah you break this down pl. GSV suggests that vehicles can only
       go from the Co-op to Bourbon and not the other way. If so then
       the driver's route was:
       1. In Co-op - just before 2pm and recorded on the Co-op parking
       operator's camera;
       2. Exit Co-op/in Bourbon; 2pm recorded at least by FPL;
       3. Leave Bourbon; presumably moments after 2pm;
       4. Enter Co-op 2nd time: before 2.36pm;
       5. Exit Co-op/in Bourbon: moments before 2.36pm.
       6. Exit Bourbon: 2.36.
       If so, then I suggest you need car park logs....but not FPL's!
       You find out from the Co-op whether their operator has cameras
       trained on the exit to Bourbon.
       Then find out from their operator your times in and out(to
       Bourbon). If you can then you have a cast-iron defence i.e. the
       driver could not be continuously parked in Bourbon and driving
       into the Co-op at the same time.
       You tell us whether the driver exited the car the first time
       they entered Bourbon and for how long the car was within the
       limits of their car park(again this might be obvious from the
       Co-op operator's data).
       #Post#: 688--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: July 1, 2023, 1:01 pm
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       --- Quote from: chigz link ---
       >
       >
       > How do i edit the post above i dont see an option?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       --- Quote ---
       >
       > Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
       > « on: June 26, 2023, 01:15:48 pm »
       Quote
       --- End Quote ---
       In the heading of your post (as above) as the writer you will
       also see a button marked'Modify'. Clicking on this enables you
       to edit the post.
       #Post#: 758--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: chigz
       Date: July 3, 2023, 7:06 am
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       --- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
       >
       > [quote author=chigz link=topic=99.msg645#msg645
       date=1688128670]
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       In the heading of your post (as above) as the writer you will
       also see a button marked'Modify'. Clicking on this enables you
       to edit the post.
       [/quote]
       I don't have an option to modify?
       [attachimg=1]
       This is the timeline of events, I have just read about double
       dipping, and looking at the times i think this may have been a
       triple dip! As the final correlates with leaving Bourton.
       Yes the its one way only.
       1. In Co-op - just before 2pm and recorded on the Co-op parking
       operator's camera;
       2. Used the through road to exit Co-op/in Bourbon; 2pm recorded
       at least by FPL;
       3. Parked up, sorted out a few things for the wife as she was
       feeding our baby. started walking over to Coop to see the
       different parking signs. Went back to the car and left Bourton
       Vale car; not sure what time but possibly 10 mins?
       4. Turned left and went back into Co-op car park for a 2nd time,
       minutes after leaving Bourton Vale Car park
       5. Left Coop car park using the through road again. Unsure what
       time
       6. Used the Bourton Vale car park again to turn the car rather
       than doing it on the roads. By going through the service station
       this time.
  HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8857778,-1.7541623,3a,75y,293.95h,87.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssgR_9n2Tyw-9mgNcciRejw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
       Hopefully this is now a clear timeline. I have tried contact
       Coop to see if they can get me the logs but so far no luck.
       Any ideas what to do next?
       [attachment deleted by admin]
       #Post#: 784--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: guest179
       Date: July 3, 2023, 3:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Why are you so sceptical of the Co-op? Did they say they would
       ask for them? Why shouldn't they either do so or suggest to you
       to submit a Subject Access Request to the data protection
       officer of the parking operator at the Co-op site?
       Where the vehicle was and when is not a state secret, it's been
       recorded.As the registered keeper you have a legal right to the
       information.
       #Post#: 819--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: chigz
       Date: July 4, 2023, 4:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I am not sceptical, they said they only keep their recordings
       for 2 weeks, they don't have a ANPR system. I asked them a week
       ago but they forgot to get the records and now they are wiped.
       They did speak to the owner of the land and have suggested
       appealing saying that I have spoken with the owner of the other
       car park and the PCN should be waived, but that is all they can
       do.
       is there a template I can follow to create my appeal?  I know
       the wording needs to be correct so don't want to dig myself a
       future hole!
       Thanks
       #Post#: 845--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: guest179
       Date: July 4, 2023, 8:39 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       According to GSV this is a camera-controlled car park operated
       by Euro Car Parks, nowt to do with the local management.
       Now, if they say they wipe data of non-offending cars after 14
       days (they have 14 days in which to serve PCNs on offending
       cars) then they might not have the evidence you need, in which
       case you'll need to pursue FP Ltd.
       As regards a template, there isn't one because the issue in
       dispute is whether the creditor has the right to enforce against
       the driver and in default the keeper which is to do with facts
       on the day, not technicalities in notices.
       The driver(pl be careful in posting responses not to fall into
       the trap of naming or inferring the driver) has an account and
       this is all that can be put to FP.
       #Post#: 846--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Future parking Limited - PCN - Bourton Vale Car park
   DIR By: chigz
       Date: July 4, 2023, 8:46 am
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       Could you help me with what my next steps would be here there in
       that case?
       Would I post my appeal for review here?
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