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#Post#: 110233--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: InterCity125 Date: February 18, 2026, 11:08 am
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[quote author=RichardW link=topic=9858.msg110168#msg110168
date=1771404378]
Of course if POPLA deem ECP NTK to be non compliant, they might
change it. But then again....carry on regardless as most people
don't know to object!
[/quote]
If (when) POPLA finally admit that the ECP's NtK is non
compliant, it should, in theory, mean that ECP will not be able
to claim keeper liability when chasing other recipients.
There must be tens of thousands of non compliant NtKs in
circulation - if ECP continued to maintain that their NtK was
complaint (when chasing payments etc) then they'd probably be
committing fraud by misrepresentation.
#Post#: 110239--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: Albamc Date: February 18, 2026, 12:07 pm
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Hello there, Below is a transcript of my intended Appeal. Please
advice if there are any glaring ommissions, errors etc.
One other thing - the PCN was issued on 28/01, but I did not
receive it until 07 or 08/02 (Can't be sure.) That only leaves
three days until the '11 days' early payment option disappears
which seems sneaky at best, illegal at worst. Luckily, I'm not
paying it. Anyway - the appeal:
Dear Sir/Madam
I would like to appeal this PCN as the registered keeper of the
vehicle. I also pre-paid for the parking as outlined below.
The driver entered Brunel House Car Park at 22:22 on 22/01/26
and proceeded to unpack the car. The car was moved into its
space and up against a barrier at 22:30 as that was when the
allotted time paid for with JustPark began.
The car was booked into the car park through the JustPark App
from 22:30 on the 22nd to 19:30 on the 23rd for £14.29, booking
ref 99882108
The next day the driver arrived back at the car at 19:25, five
minutes before the allotted parking time was over and moved the
car away from the barrier to repack it. The driver then drove
out of the car park at 19:33.
Your PCN states the vehicle was parked ‘without a valid Pay by
Phone transaction.' I dispute this as a transaction was paid for
through JustPark, and the car was not parked within a bay except
during the time paid for.
On reviewing the information regarding the PCN, the Just Park
App stated the early arrival is ok as long as the vehicle was
not actually parked before the Parking start time. Presumably
this would also extend to the three minutes after 19:30 on the
23rd. Either way, a £100 fine for a three minute overstay within
the confines of the car park is highly excessive.
Additionally, I also note the Notice to Keeper does not meet the
full requirements of The Protection of Freedoms Act (2012).
In summary, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, I believe
this PCN was issued in error as I had fully pre-paid for the
duration during which the vehicle was parked in Brunel House Car
Park.
Yours faithfully....
________________
Once again, many thanks for your help.
Al
#Post#: 110278--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: RichardW Date: February 19, 2026, 3:27 am
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You've effectively told them that you were there for longer than
you paid for... Don't say 'I paid' as that implies you were the
driver. Their PCN implies that you didn't pay for parking,
rather than an overstay, so I would just say you paid for
parking and give the reference. They will equate time on site to
parking, so the bit about unpacking etc is not really relevant.
It would be helpful to know what the parking charges structure
is - e.g. your booking was for 21 hours but if the charge is the
same for 12 - 24 hours then you were covered; if it increases
for each hour, then you were over the paid for time. After the
bit about POFA you could add that they cannot therefore transfer
liability to you, the keeper, and, under no obligation to do so,
you will not be identifying the driver.
All a moot point as they will most likely ignore it anyway!
#Post#: 110279--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: DWMB2 Date: February 19, 2026, 3:30 am
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[quote author=InterCity125 link=topic=9858.msg110233#msg110233
date=1771434480]
if ECP continued to maintain that their NtK was complaint (when
chasing payments etc) then they'd probably be committing fraud
by misrepresentation.
[/quote]
I'm not convinced that would be the case, whilst operators must
respect POPLA decisions in respect of individual cases, they are
in theory free to disagree with their conclusions. Even POPLA
assessors are free to disagree with the conclusions of another
assessor in materially similar circumstances. If a case/cases
went to court and were escalated to a sufficiently high enough
court to create a precedent that their notices were
non-compliant, and they continued to claim the contrary, that
might be another matter.
OP - whilst it doesn't say so explicitly, your proposed wording
opens the door to a presumption as to who was driving. I'd be
more careful with the wording.
#Post#: 110290--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: Albamc Date: February 19, 2026, 4:39 am
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Thank you Richard.
Here is my rewritten Appeal. Let me know if this is ok!
Dear Sir/Madam
I am appealing this PCN as the registered keeper of the vehicle.
Parking was pre-paid on the Just Park App from 22:30 on 22/01/26
until 19:30 on 23/01/26, booking reference 99882108. I also note
from a search conducted this morning that the price would be the
same for a 22:15 stay on a Thursday night until 19:45 on a
Friday evening.
Your PCN states the vehicle was parked ‘without a valid Pay by
Phone transaction.' Therefore the grounds to appeal this PCN are
that a valid Pay by Phone transaction was paid for through
JustPark, and the car was not parked within a bay except during
the time paid for.
Additionally, I also note the Notice to Keeper does not meet the
full requirements of The Protection of Freedoms Act (2012). As a
result, you cannot therefore transfer liability to the keeper,
and, as I am under no obligation to do so, I will not be
identifying the driver.
In summary, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, I believe
this PCN was issued in error as parking had been fully pre-paid
for the duration during which the vehicle was parked in Brunel
House Car Park.
Yours faithfully
#Post#: 110301--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: InterCity125 Date: February 19, 2026, 5:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=DWMB2 link=topic=9858.msg110279#msg110279
date=1771493427]
I'm not convinced that would be the case, whilst operators must
respect POPLA decisions in respect of individual cases, they are
in theory free to disagree with their conclusions. Even POPLA
assessors are free to disagree with the conclusions of another
assessor in materially similar circumstances. If a case/cases
went to court and were escalated to a sufficiently high enough
court to create a precedent that their notices were
non-compliant, and they continued to claim the contrary, that
might be another matter.
OP - whilst it doesn't say so explicitly, your proposed wording
opens the door to a presumption as to who was driving. I'd be
more careful with the wording.
[/quote]
Fair points.
In my opinion the POPLA outcomes don't really change anything
anyway - the NtK's clearly do not meet the requirements of PoFA
and any claim made, by the parking operator, to the contrary
would be demonstrably false since all one has to do is to
examine the freely available NtKs.
Our recently submitted appeals clearly point out the failings
and so far the operator has been unable / unwilling to rebut the
submitted evidence.
It also seems to me that new legislation from the CMA has
basically lowered the bar in terms of demonstrating fraud.
If the parking operator makes a false representation to a
vehicle keeper which might cause that keeper to make a financial
transaction then this could easily be regarded as fraud.
That's just my thoughts.
Any case would of course turn on its facts - in this instance it
would probably hinge on when the operator would have reasonably
discovered that their NtKs were non PoFA compliant - we have
seen many cases where non compliance has been a central appeal
point which is totally ignored in the operators responses - one
might regard that behaviour as an acknowledgement of the
problem.
#Post#: 110308--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: RichardW Date: February 19, 2026, 6:22 am
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Appeal looks OK to me - expect them to reject it though!
#Post#: 110557--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: Albamc Date: February 21, 2026, 4:27 am
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Just to say my appeal is now logged with ECP and I await its
dismissal with an overwhelming sense of inevitability. 😊
This is the text of the appeal I sent (required shortening as
ECP only allow a certain number of characters on the form:)
I am appealing this PCN as the registered keeper of EK71JXG.
Parking was pre-paid on the Just Park App from 22:30 on 22/01/26
until 19:30 on 23/01/26, booking reference 99882108. I also note
from a new search the price would be the same for a stay from
22:15 until 19:45.
Your PCN states the vehicle was parked ‘without a valid Pay by
Phone transaction.' A valid Pay by Phone transaction WAS paid
for through JustPark, and the car was not parked within a bay
except during the time paid for.
I also note the Notice to Keeper does not meet the full
requirements of The Protection of Freedoms Act (2012). As a
result, you cannot therefore transfer liability to the keeper,
and, as I am under no obligation to do so, I will not be
identifying the driver.
_______
Watch this space…
#Post#: 112998--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: Albamc Date: March 12, 2026, 9:37 am
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Afternoon all,
To the surprise of absolutely no one, Euro Parks have rejected
my appeal. They have not dealt with any of the issues
surrounding the Protection of Freedoms Act, the fact I have not
identified the driver or the fact that the cost of parking 15
minutes earlier AND later would have been the same. They also
state that £12.80 was paid to park when it was in fact £14.29,
although I realise the discrepancy may be additional fees which
they do not count. Their contention is still I owe them £100 for
driving into the car park seven minutes early and leaving just
over three minutes late.
Here are the files containing the letter I have received
rejecting my appeal.
HTML https://ibb.co/r2ndkvjG
HTML https://ibb.co/r2VQQ16j
HTML https://ibb.co/XkXHHQ2Z
Advice on my next move would, as always, be very much
appreciated.
Best
Al
#Post#: 113000--------------------------------------------------
Re: EuroCar Parks PCN for three minute overstay
By: InterCity125 Date: March 12, 2026, 10:25 am
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Yes, as expected.
We can come up with a POPLA appeal wording.
Give me a day or two.
We'll use the non PoFA and payment arguments along with the bot
reply.
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