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#Post#: 10625--------------------------------------------------
PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 19, 2023, 12:18 pm
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The PCN was affixed to the car windscreen
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/G9TXH8mz/LBH-PCN-unredacted-front.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/G9TXH8mz
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/jLVZNxWT/LBH-PCN-unredacted-rear.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/jLVZNxWT
GSV:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/TqcH5HeWDB7Xnbsq9
There are only 2 entrances to the CPZ, and this is the signage:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/mPMxS84n/CPZ-entrances-unredacted.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/mPMxS84n
I think there are now signs on both sides of the road in the
lower location - I could go and check but I doubt it's material,
any more than the leaves obscuring the RH sign in the upper
photo.
I don't dispute that I was parked where and when they said, and
the evidence is very clear.
The only error I can see is that they have miss-spelt the name
of the road on both the ticket and the appeal rejection as
"Clovely" rather than "Clovelly".
BTW - I've not been sitting on my hands since they rejected my
appeal, they posted it on 2nd November, which was a Thursday,
and therefore their presumption was that it would be delivered
within 2 working days, i.e. Monday 6th, which is when the 14-day
countdown for the discounted payment window started. The day
after it came I started a topic on Pepipoo.
It was actually delivered on Thursday 16th, 10 days late. I
have asked if they would extend the 14-day window by 10 days, on
the grounds that they must know that it is unsafe to assume that
Royal Mail will deliver when they should, and that injustices
can arise if they do just assume.
If they don't then tomorrow, Monday 20th is my deadline to
either pay £55 or decide to "make further representations".
So I guess what I'd like to know is are there any
"technicalities" which give me a sporting chance of getting this
dismissed, or should I just pay up while it's going to cost me
£55 rather than £110.
#Post#: 10631--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 19, 2023, 2:09 pm
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There are various potential issues, but you say you've made
representations already and received a rejection?
In this case please show us exactly what they sent, and what
they sent back.
Don't worry about the discount, as long as you challenge the
notice to owner within 14 days, even if they reject again they
normally reoffer the discount anyway for a further 14 days.
#Post#: 10639--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 19, 2023, 2:54 pm
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The background is that I parked on the SYL because I thought it
was fine, based on ignorance.
I did not know that the SYL was actually part of, i.e. governed
by the hours of, the CPZ - I thought the road had yellow lines,
and what the CPZ did was to create gaps in the SYL with
resident's parking bays, i.e. in the road you could park in a
bay according to the rules for the bays, or you could park on
the SYL according to the rules for that.
In a somewhat feeble, straw-clutching claim in my defence, there
are a number of London boroughs who say that there can be
situations where SYLs on roads within a CPZ operate at different
times etc, and when that happened there'd be signs associated
with the SYLs to tell you
So I didn't think that the CPZ days/times defined the period of
operation of the SYL - I thought that was defined by the
information plates on the lamp posts along the road, and in a
further display of idiocy I thought that this:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/tY47Jbh7/Yellow-line-sign.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/tY47Jbh7
was a SYL info plate, not something totally nothing to do with
yellow lines.
So I appealed on the basis that the SYL on which I was parked
did not prohibit parking at the time I was on it.
This was their rejection:
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/rKSgNBWr/LBH-rejection-less-redacted-p1.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/rKSgNBWr
HTML https://i.postimg.cc/nXp2R3Yw/LBH-rejection-less-redacted-p2.jpg
HTML https://postimg.cc/nXp2R3Yw
#Post#: 10665--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 19, 2023, 6:22 pm
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I think you would serve yourself best by paying the discount as
offered, and put this episode down as a learning opportunity in
"Life's Rich Pageant". If you take things further, the full PCN
penalty will be in play, and I can't see a win at London
Tribunals, sorry to say it.
#Post#: 10684--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 20, 2023, 4:04 am
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I did fear that might be the case.... :-(
#Post#: 10700--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 20, 2023, 7:01 am
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
> Don't worry about the discount, as long as you challenge the
notice to owner within 14 days, even if they reject again they
normally reoffer the discount anyway for a further 14 days.
>
--- End Quote ---
"Normally". Hmmm.
How does a Notice To Owner differ from a Notice To Keeper?
Am I right that it's the owner or keeper who is liable from the
outset, and there's none of the
driver-is-liable-but-POFA-allows-liability-to-be-transferred-to-keeper
stuff you get with private parking charge notices?
#Post#: 10703--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 20, 2023, 8:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
> Am I right that it's the owner or keeper who is liable from
the outset, and there's none of the
driver-is-liable-but-POFA-allows-liability-to-be-transferred-to-keeper
stuff you get with private parking charge notices?
--- End Quote ---
Correct. The keeper is assumed to be the owner, and has full
responsibility for a PCN. For parking PCNs, if the PCN is served
to the car or driver, the driver can submit an informal
challenge, (or pay of course), but if, after 28 days has elapsed
since service, a Notice to Owner is sent to the name and address
recorded by DVLA for the vehicle.
All postal PCNs are sent to the keeper. Apart from a driver
submitting an informal challenge, the driver has no role at all
in the enforcement process. Private parking tickets are totally
different hence two separate forums.
#Post#: 10740--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 20, 2023, 12:45 pm
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Well - they didn't get back to me today to say they would
reschedule the 14-day discount period to start when I actually
received the appeal rejection rather than the date they presumed
I'd received it, so I've got a few hours to decide whether to
pay the £55, or hang on and hope they do grant me an extension.
I have to say that following the recent Ofcom RM investigation &
fine this presumption of theirs that letters will be delivered
within 2 working days of being sent is utterly unsafe. Mine
came 10 days after that, giving me 4 days of discount period
left, not 14.
Whatever I decide to do, or whatever happens, I'm minded to make
complaints about this.
#Post#: 10907--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: guest968
Date: November 22, 2023, 5:59 am
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In the end I didn't pay the reduced amount by the end of the
deadline, so if anybody thinks there might be a viable tribunal
appeal open to me I'll sit and wait for the NtO, otherwise I
might try throwing myself on their mercy re the appalling Royal
Mail delay and ask them to accept the reduced payment a few days
late.
#Post#: 11055--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN for CPZ contravention 01 - Parked in a restricted street
during prescribed hours L.B. Hillingdon
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 23, 2023, 6:32 pm
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I've requested the TMO, let us know when you get the notice to
owner.
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